Boycott Gun

[arthur666]

Please read this:

http://www.boycottgun.com/

I signed the petition, but would gladly buy the game if they re-release it.

[spartan015]

man i watched my friend play it... i thought it was kinda cold blooded.. i mean... thats like really bad view of the native americans (or American Indians, they still can't decide lol)

[Kov-Ice]

I've not seen the game played, but I have to agree with the case that petition makes.

[TJohn]

The game does have the potential to send a wrong message. Especially since most people / youths are ignorant to the truth about this history.

[spartan015]

Originally Posted by TJohn The game does have the potential to send a wrong message. Especially since most people / youths are ignorant to the truth about this history.

so true... its really too bad. foriegners wonder why the US people don't know their own history, heh the people who take the citzenship test know more about us history then the people (as a genearlization)

[figarowa]

rented it for the weekend, yeah it seemed to be a little wacked as for the whole native american thing, but in reality it is just a fictional game. GTA titles are more graphic, in which you hunted down specific "races" ie the yakuza, the mob and such, which i think is just as bad and nobody made a stink about it. it comes down to freedom of speech man, it may not be PC or even accurate and downright crude, but if you don't like it don't play it, plain and simple. I'm kinda tired of the over politically correctness of america these days, its impossible not to offend or hurt someones feelings.

[Stuey]

It's not about the freedom of speech; it's about what is appropriate and what is not. Even though a game is rated M, I can guarantee that MANY adolescents will have access to the game. A lot of parents don't censor what their children have access to, or the game could be acquired through one's peers.

The game (from what I read in the description in the bocott page) is indeed highly inappropriate. How is it different from games in which N. Korea is the enemy? Or WWII games when it is so casual to snipe at german soldiers? Or GTA where you're a criminal gunning down anything and everything? Because this game advocates the killing of innocent people. Whether or not they are fictional or real people doesn't matter since even fictional interactions can have a real influence on a person. You are not a criminal in the game, like in GTA where it is acknowledged that murdering is wrong. You are not a solider like in Call of Duty where your in-game enemies are enemies of the Alliance. Even in BF2, the lines are drawn and you fight for a specific nationality which is at war with another. In this game, you are a "hero" whose tsak is to brutally attach civilians.

Originally Posted by http://www.activision.com/en_US/game_overview/462767de-b1f2-4ace-a14b-96875c23771c.html New and Savage Ways to Punish: Stealthily sneak up and attack your enemies, use them as cover, stab and shoot them.... Brutal Realism...

Honestly, a game that features brutal realism and new and savage ways to "punish" should NOT be released into a society where impressionable minds can gain access to the games.

[Kov-Ice]

Originally Posted by figarowa GTA titles are more graphic, in which you hunted down specific "races" ie the yakuza, the mob and such, which i think is just as bad and nobody made a stink about it. it comes down to freedom of speech man, it may not be PC or even accurate and downright crude, but if you don't like it don't play it, plain and simple. I'm kinda tired of the over politically correctness of america these days, its impossible not to offend or hurt someones feelings.

I think lotsa stink has been made over the latest GTA, to the point that it was pulled until reworked, right? As Stuey points out, it's not about PC as much as it is about the nature of the realistic use of violence upon innocents.

[figarowa]

as i recall in GTA you indeed can run over standard civilians and or shoot them, i just don't see the difference, it is indeed all in bad taste violence, but i'm well over the mature age to play the game, its not my fault that parents these days can not control their children. Why should I have to suffer because the age of "time out" sucks. When i did something i wasn't supposed to do say or hear, i got my butt whipped. Further more, my parents did not censor any movies or games or music which I listened too, and I turned out to be a college educated middle class citizen who does not run people over, shoot people, yadda yadda. It is a giant cop out in that everyone blames violence in video games/movies, which is leading to the degeneration of society. The reality is that yes there was unecessary bloodshed during the colonization and such in the early years of America. Yes, i do feel that it the subject matter of the game is inappropriately shown in such graphic detail, but shoot don't you remember playing cowboys and indians as a kid?

[FireByyrd]

racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

This game clearly shows what "racism" is all about. and what do you do? What is the main core element running point of the game? Kill indians any possible way, so basically the game fuels or provides you racism. If they made a online game that has the "indian" or "western" side, then it would be a fair fight right? But the indians are massacred in the game, with you controlling. Would'nt this justify the "RIGHT" of making a game of massacring Americans? Thats unheard of! and not right at all because its wrong, so how can being "mature" justify the killing of another race or nationality off?

*edit: Yakuza isnt a race :P its a gang.

[figarowa]

I don' t see it as racist, as it is historically accurate. Europeans came to america and wiped out this race of people, just for the land, thats what happened cut and dry, i don't see it as any different then any of the WW2 games, or others in that genre. I'm not saying it is right either, i'm suggesting that one other's post was that of the game being too drastic for younger people, which I agree too, but disagree that anyone of legal or mature mind shouldn't be allowed to play it because of poor parenting. Yes i do find the nature of the game offensive, I had no idea before I rented it, however if one doesn't like it don't rent it or buy it, no one forced me to rent it, I heard it was a good action game that is all.

[USMDude]

The most effective way to determine what games video game makers will release is to vote on games with your hard-earned dollars. If you don't like it don't buy it. If you think it's in bad taste and needs to be pulled from shelves, sign the petition. I agree that something like this is in bad taste, and to be honest I wasn't going to get the game even before I found out about this.

The democratic process allows us to vote yea/nay on everything including GUN. Hopefully the backlash from this will if nothing else convince parents to be more aware of the games they or their kids buy, but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

[arthur666]

I'm glad to see interest and dialogue about this subject. I just want to say that freedom of speech and expression are very important to me, which is why I support a boycott and not a ban. I don't see this as being PC. To me, it's simply being polite.

[bigandy]

But if you actually play the game you see that it's not all about the white man fighting the indians. Only for the beginning part is it that way. Afterwards you realize who the bad guys are and work with the indians.

Yes, this game is brutal. I won't deny it at all. There's a reason it's rated M. If you're going to say that "oh, young children will play it anyway", then perhaps the game shouldn't be faulted, the parents should. If you don't think your kid can handle it, then you need to make it clear they aren't to play/watch this game, and enforce that statement. Talk to the parents of your child's friends and let them know what your rule is regarding such things.

It is right to say that this game (like GTA) is not in good taste. I've played both, love both, but it's the truth. But unless you have some serious underlying problems, you're probably not going to be affected too much by these types of games. I've been playing games since I was little and I've never had the urge to carjack someone, shoot them, steal their money and then do a drive-by on some cops. Nor have I ever thought, wow, it would be great to go kill some injuns down at the reservation.

[tomster2300]

Originally Posted by bigandy But if you actually play the game you see that it's not all about the white man fighting the indians. Only for the beginning part is it that way. Afterwards you realize who the bad guys are and work with the indians. Yes, this game is brutal. I won't deny it at all. There's a reason it's rated M. If you're going to say that "oh, young children will play it anyway", then perhaps the game shouldn't be faulted, the parents should. If you don't think your kid can handle it, then you need to make it clear they aren't to play/watch this game, and enforce that statement. Talk to the parents of your child's friends and let them know what your rule is regarding such things. It is right to say that this game (like GTA) is not in good taste. I've played both, love both, but it's the truth. But unless you have some serious underlying problems, you're probably not going to be affected too much by these types of games. I've been playing games since I was little and I've never had the urge to carjack someone, shoot them, steal their money and then do a drive-by on some cops. Nor have I ever thought, wow, it would be great to go kill some injuns down at the reservation.

Ditto. Please guys, don't give Hillary anymore fodder. It's just a game and it's not worth it. If you don't like it, please don't play it and go on with your lives.

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Ditto. Please guys, don't give Hillary anymore fodder. It's just a game and it's not worth it. If you don't like it, please don't play it and go on with your lives.

You're making it sound like we're diehard activists. On the game's website, the overview suggests that the realistic and brutal gameplay is the game's main selling point. I think it's ridiculous to market a game where the primary selling point is realistic and brutal savagery. I'm sorry, it's just that the game's premise seems way too extreme.

You are right, however, in your implication that it is wrong to take a stand on an issue without at least experiencing the gameplay first hand.

[arthur666]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Ditto. Please guys, don't give Hillary anymore fodder. It's just a game and it's not worth it. If you don't like it, please don't play it and go on with your lives.

It's games like this that gives one of my favorite hobbies a bad name, and politicians plenty of fuel for their campaigns! I don't want legislation against games. That's why I'm actively avoiding purchasing this, and letting the company know this. It's a shame because, other than the problem stated, it looks rather good.

[Kuch]

If you want to look at things from a right vs. wrong stand point, or what is PC and what is not, then ANY game can come under fire. Sure, in Call of Duty or Medal of Honor, you a soldier fight for what is “right”. Does that make it O.K. because we won the war? How do the Germans or Japanese feel about those games? Technically speaking, the actions of the here in Gun were legal back in that time period. People actually did those things and made a living off it.

The bottom line is that if people don’t like a game; then they don’t have to buy it. If people have children and they don’t want them exposed to that level of violence, then maybe they should take an interest in what games their kids are playing. The bottom line is I don’t want someone else making the decision for all of us what games should and shouldn’t be available. If a Native American organization wants to protest a game, then they can have at it; that is their right. But they don’t have any right to make decisions for the rest of us.

[arthur666]

Originally Posted by Kuch in Call of Duty or Medal of Honor, you a soldier fight for what is “right”. Does that make it O.K. because we won the war? How do the Germans or Japanese feel about those games?

A good question. Are there any Germans or Japanese on these forums who care to give us more insight? As for myself, my Grandfather was a P-51D pilot in WWII, so I have great interest in air combat. It is a very fascinating subject. I love the IL2 series (a great WWII flight sim), and will play from the side of the Germans or Japanese as well as the allied forces. I think the difference is, you are acting as a professional soldier who is just doing a job. There is no "slaughter", just combat. Is this insensitive, considering we all know what happened in Europe during the war? I really don't know. To me, Gun seems totally different.

[FireByyrd]

Originally Posted by arthur666 A good question. Are there any Germans or Japanese on these forums who care to give us more insight? As for myself, my Grandfather was a P-51D pilot in WWII, so I have great interest in air combat. It is a very fascinating subject. I love the IL2 series (a great WWII flight sim), and will play from the side of the Germans or Japanese as well as the allied forces. I think the difference is, you are acting as a professional soldier who is just doing a job. There is no "slaughter", just combat. Is this insensitive, considering we all know what happened in Europe during the war? I really don't know. To me, Gun seems totally different.

Professional soldier who is just doing a job eh?
There is no slaughter just combat... Can someone please explain to me what happened at the rape of Nanking? People just know of the holocaust of the Jews, but everyone forgets the 320,000 Chinese that died. I feel thats slaughter. Japan still have yet to say sorry for the atrocities that happened, but nevermind that... it will spark yet another debate.

Back to the topic of Gun... you don't see people making video games of Japenese massacring Chinese do you? I don't. So what is the difference of Americans massacring native americans? Its just not right.

[spartan015]

im japanese (born lived for some time etc. but lived in US)... and yea i think i got brainwashed cuz like lol its no big deal but i find it very offensive when bush said that 911 was like pearl harbor. especially since the truth about pearl harbor wasnt known.

Pearl Harbor was a military attack, straight and simple, civilians get killed, accidents happen, i mean technically the atom bombs were wiping out military installations (naval shipyard) but they killed over 200,000 civilians and what not. The Declaration of War was late becuase of the translator not being there to type it. the plan was as soon as japan declared war on the US pearl harbor would happen as a surprise attack. but too bad for the japanese the declartion was late. it was smart for the pacific admirals to keep the aircraft carriers outta harbor or else they wouldve lost the pacific.

so idk i never really liked germans (nazis mind you, i have friends who are german) so wwii games nvr really bothered me, the medal of honor pacific front... well that was jus boring game, i really like the european front. as long as we dont get compared to osama then yea no big deal, wars happen ppl die, lots of ppl are cruel to each other, i dislike the japanese for what they did to the chinese and what not. but prolly cuz my education was in the US that i can say things like that.

[spartan015]

Originally Posted by FireByyrd Professional soldier who is just doing a job eh? There is no slaughter just combat... Can someone please explain to me what happened at the rape of Nanking? People just know of the holocaust of the Jews, but everyone forgets the 320,000 Chinese that died. I feel thats slaughter. Japan still have yet to say sorry for the atrocities that happened, but nevermind that... it will spark yet another debate. Back to the topic of Gun... you don't see people making video games of Japenese massacring Chinese do you? I don't. So what is the difference of Americans massacring native americans? Its just not right.

which is another thing the problem with that is the stupid "honor" graves. ppl who died or was excuted in the WWII was buried there. the prime minister during WWII was tried then excuted, but heres thing about the japanese culture, once ur dead ur forgieven. chinese has a point tho, why bury it in the same place as some of the war heros. and the admiral of the Imperial Fleet was a good man.. jus sayin.

back to the topic of Gun. we should ask some native americans here what they have opinions of. but like jus cuz thats how euros did or saw things or americans saw the native americans doesnt mean it has to be like that. the affect that tv and video games is rather an odd one. i really think they should edit it so its not soo offenseive. i mean i can understand that they are savages in the game (i meant like the characters see them like that, because thats how most of em saw them as during that time.)

[Kuch]

People are free to say and do whatever they want (within reason, obviously); this is America. Either choose to buy or rent the game, or choose to save your money. People ultimately vote with their dollars.

Oftentimes, the line between a boycott and a ban are skewed, and people will want to start dictating what games should and shouldn’t be made (give someone an inch, they want a mile). This I feel a dangerous point, as I don’t want someone else making that decision for me.

[David M]

There is nothing more violent than video games. Even the worst movies are less violent. I find it amusing some are worried about this game. Two wrongs do not make it right...but where is the proportionality?

[arthur666]

Originally Posted by FireByyrd Professional soldier who is just doing a job eh? There is no slaughter just combat... Can someone please explain to me what happened at the rape of Nanking? People just know of the holocaust of the Jews, but everyone forgets the 320,000 Chinese that died. I feel thats slaughter. Japan still have yet to say sorry for the atrocities that happened, but nevermind that... it will spark yet another debate.

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, been away from my computer...
Good point, I didn't mean to focus only on Europe.
In most WWII games, you do not take part in the atrocities. Most German and Japanese (not to leave out the USA, USSR and most other nations involved) soldiers did not take part, and many did not know about these horrific events. Almost all soldiers, in any conflict, are good people, swept-up into events beyond their control. If a WWII game asked me to round up Japanese-Americans for the internment camps, I would denounce it as well. That's why Gun is different.

[Strider]

I look it at this way, Gun depicts the elimination (or near elimination of Native Amerincans). While it might be historically accurate, it would be like playing a game were you are a commander of a concentration camp during WWII. It's totally disgusting that a company will go to great lengths just to make the almight dollar. Just my .02 cents.

[Kuch]

This is my point exactly. You don’t like the game, so you won’t buy it. You are making this decision; you aren’t letting someone else make it for you. I would rather have people make these decisions for themselves rather than some organization or legislation make it for us.

[spartan015]

everyone play or heard of the game where u assianate president kennedy? that was jus cold and sick

[Darth Revan]

Man, I didn't want to play that anyway. But even if you know it is a game, because of that petion it means prolly somewhere a kid is gonna start hating Indians just because of a video game...
But someone else said it, no matter what you do someone will complain. They did it with Gibsons movie, The Passion of the Christ, they do it with Bush, they do it with song lyrics, now its hitting games. Wow.

[aj_86cc]

You have the right to be protected from intimidation or fear, not the right of being protected from being offended. Censorship is a dangerous thing.