ATI's RADEON 8500 vs. NVIDIA's GeForce3

[raja]

I emailed Greg Vederman (the editor of the hardware section of PC Gamer) about these two video cards, and I thought I'd share his response with you all.

My question was this:
"Despite ATI's new 8500 being "20% better" (whatever that means... I'm assuming framerate), the full page article on it in the November issue doesn't play up the card's extra features the same way you praised the GeForce3's endless list of super powers. I mean, TRUFORM sounds neat (even though it probably won't be supported for a while yet), and FSAA is always good, but what about GeForce3's texture mapping and complex lighting capabilities?
Let me put it this way: if somebody dropped five hundred bucks in your lap and said, "Go buy yourself a 3D accelerator," which one would you buy? Would you go for features or speed? "

He replied:
"I tested a final Radeon 8500 this morning -- so far, I've spent about six hours with it. The final drivers are a little flaky, and despite what ATI has been saying, the GeForce3 Ti 500 is still faster in just about all games and tests. That said, the Radeon 8500 is still very fast and does offer a lot of cool features. Unfortunately, a lot of those extra features can't be tested because there aren't any current games that use them. =(

Given my experiences thus far, I'd buy a GeForce3 Ti over a Radeon 8500. Keep in mind, however, that ATI has dropped the price of the 8200 to $299, while the Ti 500 is still $399."

Just thought I'd share, since I know many of us are in the market for a top of the line 3D card.

[Tiretool]

Hey raja, nice to finally have a fellow Georgian on the boards... you're going to hang around I hope.

"The Vede" usually doesn't sugar coat stuff, at least not in the magazine. I would tend to agree with his decision to go with a GeForce3 Ti given a blank check, but I'm probably going to hold out for a few months and see if the 8500's drivers develop, because if they do, and ATI pulls ahead, NVidia's prices will almost certainly drop and they'll counter again with a more aggressive clock speed for the GPU and the memory and they'll once again take the lead (if they ever lose it at all). Then will be the prime time for purchasing.

[raja]

w00t go Georgia! And you're a Warner Robins boy - not too far from me. I'm in the process of overhauling my computer, and the graphics card isn't exactly at the top of the list of what needs urgent replacing. thanks for the advice... I'll definitely keep an eye on the market.

[Floppyman]

they'll once again take the lead (if they ever lose it at all)

That day will come ttool, GO ATI!

BTW, Happy Birthday!

[Tiretool]

Thanks Flopster!

[Smudge]

I just got a new gaming rig yesterday from Alienware. I am completely impressed and very happy I made the decision to go with the Nvidia Geforce 3 card. I'm running XP home edition and after downloading the XPDetonator drivers - everything is running like a dream. Textures/lighting/ speed - I never had it so good

regards, Rommie
Athlon 1.4
384 ddr sdram
nvidia geforce3 64 mg
SB live 5.1 x-gamer
pioneer dvd
plexwriter 16/10/40
klipsh speakers

I'm doing the happy *Alien dance* right now

[Werewolfdaddy]

I had owned geforce 2 cards previously and wasn't much impressed; however, the geforce 3 has made a convert out of me. Nvidia, nvidia, invidia. Woo, woo.

[HAL9000]

I'll have to wait until somebody in my area wants a GeForce 3 to base an opinion on it, but I do hope it's better than the GeForce 2's, I've never really been impressed by them.

I was always told that if you want to hear how good a set of speaker are, connect them to a 10w amp, nothing more and this has always worked fine. Well, I'll tell ya, I have a similar rule for video cards. Connect it to an el-cheapo monitor such as a Daytek and differences are night and day. The Radeon's picture quality stomps on the GeForce 2. I'll have to wait until we start getting in the Radeon 8500's and GeForce 3's and see what happens.

[Werewolfdaddy]

I was always a hardcore voodoo fan; I outright despised nvidia for driving 3dfx out of business, but I have to give kudos to nvidia and props for this card. It is unlike anything I have ever played with before. The geforce 3 will change the way we play games.

[whr2206]

ive always had ati, from the first day I had a computer (had onborad ati)..and now, my 7500, and 8500 cards in two of my computers both are great, but those damn drivers gave me ahrd time, but it was worth it..when nvida killed voodoo, i was mad.

[muddog]

Hey Floppyman, you seem to know a lot about ATI cards so i guess you can probably give me the best answer.

I was checking the price of the 8500 at newegg.com and i saw that the core was 250MHz and the DDR RAM speed was 240MHz. At anandtech review the clock speeds were 275/275. If the OEM 8500 are clocked lower can you just bump up the speeds on the OEM to 275/275 without any problems and extra heat?

If anyone has tried this please tell me!!! I want to get an 8500 so i can replace my crappy gf2 pro which left sort of disappointed.

[Floppyman]

Hi muddog,

To tell you the truth I'm not quite sure. I'm not sure on this but I would think however that if the same gpu is used on both you can maybe clock at least it up to 275. I don't know if the same speed DDR ram is used on both cards though. If the ram speed on the OEM card is slower it might not be possible.

The only I know of to overclock ATI Radeons is to use the program RadeonTweaker. You can adjust both gpu and ram speed separetely in that program, however, it warns that the Radeon was designed for synched operation (i.e. ram and gpu speed being the same). Then again I don't know if this refers to just the older Radeons or the newer ones as well.

Bottom line is this though, if you want a guaranteed 275/275 speed, get the retail version of the card (If I had a choice that's what I would get). I'm not sure, it maybe is possible to overclock the OEM version to retail card speeds, but just like with any sort of overclocking, you aren't guaranteed anything. Hope this helps and let me know if you have more questions.

[figarowa]

For me i don't need the latest and greatest right away, i feel that ATI will pick it up, although they should have had this card out at least 3 months ago. When i buy a new part, for me it has to have a good price/performance factor, and there are the diehard Nvidia Fans and there are AtI fans, and still some straggling 3DFX fans *cough Xayd *cough. To me having ATI come out with a fairly good product means overall cheaper prices due to competition. The user in the end wins, as we don't have to pay over $300 for a Nvidia Card

[muddog]

Thanks Floppyman!!

I would buy the retail as well but to tell you the truth I'm as rich as a hobo living in a cardboard box. Do you know by any chance how much faster the retail is than the OEM? If the difference isn't that big I will get the OEM. Also does anyone know where i can get the DVI to VGA connector so I can use Hydravision?

[Werewolfdaddy]

What is hydravision?

[rios__]

Hydravision is the dual display capabilites of the radeon

[Floppyman]

Hi muddog,

I tried looking around the net if I could find some comparisions but I came up empty handed. It seems to be true though that ATI put an OEM version of this card that is clocked at 250/250. I don't know how much of performance decrease this would be though. I'm guessing a couple frames per second though. I think either card would still be plenty fast in today's games, but the retail will be just a little faster. How much is the price difference between the two?

[muddog]

Well, the difference is around US$100, that's why I want the OEM so bad, but this is a cruel world so I guess you can't have everything.

Hey Floppyman, have you given the 8500 AIW any thought yet? It looks pretty cool but i have to see how it performs. Although I can't afford it, it looks to be the fastest most feature packed card on the market (when it comes out, if it isn't out already).

[Floppyman]

Hi muddog,

Yep, I've taken a look at the 8500 AIW Radeon, and it looks impressive indeed. I particulary like it's firewire port, where you could hook a camcorder up for capturing video for instance. I'm curious how much it will cost, anybody have some preliminary price info? TIA.

[HAL9000]

Rumored street price on the All-in-Wonder Radeon 8500 is $500USD.

[glc]

$499 suggested retail, $399 street. Newegg estimates arrival on 11/9 and is selling it for $399.

[Floppyman]

Wowser that's quite a hefty price tag, but with a card that's beefed up with so many features, it makes sense. Anyone planning on getting one?

[Demosthenes]

After the first few rounds of price cuts, I will really consider it. For now, $500 is ludicrous. Like the GeForce3, it too will plummet. Just imagine if nVidia offered stuff like tuners and such. That would surely give ATI a run for its money. Of course I can hear the chorus now.

[HAL9000]

I'll be looking at getting one, but not for a while, price has to drop quite a bit first.

[whr2206]

oh thanks about the hydra vision, i was like..what the he**??