Video card or system issues?

[kmillerusaf]

Last week , I upgraded my video card from a ATI x800 to the new ATI 3870. I had pretty good FPS at first but noticed some drops in places where I thought there shouldnt be drops (drops meaning like 20-30fps). I have only been playing TF2 and tried UT3demo as a benchtest and the graphics looked horrible and the gameplay was choppy when I tried it. Let me tell you the things I have done to try to fix it.

Updated video card drivers to the new 7.11
Defragged hard drive
Daily virus scan is performed
Updated sound card drivers
Tried running everything on low in TF2 with basically the same results

It seems the only other option would be to reformat the hard drive and reinstall windows which I really don't feel like doing unless its unavoidable. Can anyone think of anything else I might be able to do? Also, since the new sound card drivers have been added, average fps is lower, more choppy and the sound got distorted a few times while in game.

Thanks,
Keith

[pam123]

Go into Device Manager and see if anything is flagged.

[kmillerusaf]

pam, thanks for replying... There has been one thing flagged since I installed the card which is a generic "PCI device". From my understanding, that happens with the newer cards that have HDMI and dual DVI capability. I even tried installing drivers for the PCI device and it never worked so I just disabled it. That's the only thing flagged

[pam123]

OK I had the same problem with the 2600 XT and the sound was a mess.
I don't know what it would have done with game play because I didn't have any installed at the time.

What HDMI drivers and where did you get them from ?
There are a set on the ATI/AMD site.

You'll likely need to check out the High Definition Audio Driver Package KB888111 article from Microsoft : http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888111

I don't know about your motherboard's drivers but you may already have the fix on the cd :

On the driver disk go to the drivers/audio folder and in the 32bit/2K_XP folder run kb888111.exe Once you've done that, the sound will install correctly.

If not see above.

Disabling the unknown device doesn't make the problem go away as I also found out and since I had a new and updated install of XP for a new build when I got hit with the problem a format and reinstall won't help either.

[kmillerusaf]

Well I only installed the "display" driver version 7.11 for the new video card off the ATI driver download website... I never installed the WDM drivers and CCC bloatware for the HDMI/tv because I wasn't ever planning on using that. So would that be a problem in itself by only downloading that specific driver? I also did an update on the onboard sound card from the Asus website but that is when the sound became distorted (sound was never an issue before the update of the sound driver) accompanying the video problems so I rolled back the driver to the original driver version dated 4/19/2005.

EDIT***

This may or may not be important but I figured I should let you know... I recently flashed my BIOS from 1009 to the newest version, I believe 1303 but that was before the video card installation and have not had any problems besides in game.

[pam123]

What drivers did you install for the unknown pci device and where did you get them from ?

Did you end up with the option to do a repair/reinstall or did you find yourself facing a window that said no drivers were available or needed for the unknown device ?

Why did you update your bios ?

[kmillerusaf]

It never let me install the drivers for the Unknown PCI device whether I use Windows update or the folder location of the drivers I used for the video card originally. I guess they need a set of different drivers (WDM) but like I said, I hadn't planned on using the HDMI/tv ability. It came up with a window of the latter, no drivers were available for the unknown device.

I updated my BIOS because I was going through a brief overclocking stint and was running into some stability problems so someone recommended an update to the BIOS. I used the Windows ASUS update utility to flash the BIOS so I know I didn't cause any problems (that I can think of) there.

[pam123]

Most people think of WDM as being limited to video capture but it also provides audio support and and now HD audio is run through graphics cards and you've got a card that has HDMI audio in the hardware.
I wish ATI/AMD had been clearer on what needs to be installed and what doesn't but you can no longer assume that what you could leave out when installing drivers for an X800 can be left out for the 3870.

I think you're right about the bios update not making a difference for this.

[kmillerusaf]

So in a nutshell, I need the WDM drivers?

EDIT***

Is there a way I can download the WDM drivers without getting CCC? I can find the individual drivers without the bloatware attached

[pam123]

You can download the WDM drivers separately.
Just scroll down the page till you see the red lettering that says Individual driver download packages .
Click on it and go get the drivers.
Be sure you read the ATI WDM Release Notes as well :

Unknown Device Message If you install the recommended Display Driver before installing the WDM driver, you may encounter an UNKNOWN DEVICE message when restarting your computer. If this occurs, follow these steps: 1. Select CANCEL for all UNKNOWN DEVICES that are detected 2. Install 7-11_xp32-64_wdm_54435.exe 3. Restart the computer Missing File Message During installation of the WDM driver, you may encounter a message which indicates a driver file cannot be found. Typically this will occur after the system has been restarted and NEW HARDWARE is being detected. To work around this issue, follow these steps: 1. BROWSE to the directory where the new drivers were unpacked. The default directory is C:\ATI\support\. 2. Run Setup.exe.

[kmillerusaf]

i installed the drivers... and everything went fine, the flag for PCI device went away but now I have no sound... None in windows and none in game :/

EDIT***

I messed up big time.. I installed the HDMI audio drivers instead of the WDM drivers... I went to device manager and uninstallled the HDMI device but it wont let me install the WDM drivers saying there isnt any hardware to install it for... sound works again though

[pam123]

It's just a goof, you'll have to reserve mea maxima culpa for something else.

Run the ATI uninstaller and get rid of everything.
Then start over from scratch following ATI's description for the order in which you have to install everything since you're not using the package/
WDM is first and then the drivers.
Check Device Manager.

If an unknown sound device is flagged then you install HDMI.

If you plan on making more than basic adjustments remember that you'll need to download ATI Tray Tools.

[kmillerusaf]

Pam,

For some odd reason ATI uninstall will not delete the HDMI audio drivers... I have tried to unisntall everything through driver cleaner and I have tried to uninstall everything through the ATI uninstall utility in Add/Remove programs and neither will let me install the WDM drivers, whether I try them first or last. There is a PCI device flagged in the device manager but it doesnt appear like it did before:

(flag) PCI device
(flag) PCI device...

Now the flagged PCI device is under the System portion but like I said it won't let me install the WDM drivers no matter what order I try. I will try again as I wait for your reply.


EDIT****

Tried it again and exact error is:

"Setup was unable to find components that can be installed on your current hardware or software configuration. Please make sure you have the required hardware or software"


Also on the driver website it says underneath the WDM drivers... "This driver is required for all All-in-Wonder and VIVO products" but the 3870 is found under the radeon product. does this matter or change anything?

[pam123]

Don't fight it if it won't let you install it.
Rage3D has multiple reports of the same problem so AMD/ATI is going to have to do some clarifying here.

[kmillerusaf]

So am I stuck without a resolution/fix to my graphics card problems until they get off their high chair and fix some things? Do you think installing those HDMI audio drivers left some residual things behind that are preventing me from installing the WDM drivers? Is there a way to fix that?

[kmillerusaf]

I think this weekend I may just reformat this computer since XP was installed in February of 06 and start from scratch with the new video card. I am unsure if I should install just the WDM and display driver or the display and HDMI audio driver or all 3... I guess I will come to that fork in the road after the fresh install.

[pam123]

Originally Posted by kmillerusaf I think this weekend I may just reformat this computer since XP was installed in February of 06 and start from scratch with the new video card. I am unsure if I should install just the WDM and display driver or the display and HDMI audio driver or all 3... I guess I will come to that fork in the road after the fresh install.

Over at Rage3D a number of new card buyers have been doing the same thing so from there I include the warning about getting all the XP updates installed, along with the latest motherboard drivers, before you load the latest ATI driver pack.

[kmillerusaf]

Will do... I think I will do fresh install, updates, update audio driver, then update video card drivers... do you think I should try all 3 drivers (WDM, display, and HDMI audio)? If so, in what order?

[pam123]

I know you hate the CCC but install the whole package.
You need to figure out exactly what ATI has done, and how it will work for you, before you decide what not to use (or to switch to the alternate Omega Radeon drivers.).

Remember to include .Net in your updates.

[kmillerusaf]

Alright I guess I can :/ Thanks for your help and I will post here again after the fresh install and results

[kmillerusaf]

Pam,

I may have one more issue that I can check that may solve my problem... I didn't think about this at all until I read a thread here that in a nutshell was giving the user problems because he had his video card plugged into the secondary PCI slot. This gave me an idea to check my motherboard manual and it seems that in normal mode, only 1 (the blue PCI-E slot) functions as PCI-E x16 and the other functions as x1. To my recollection... I think the card is in the black slot which would mean it's running at x1. Is x16 vs x1 that big of a performance jump that I would see these spikes?

[pam123]

Oh yes it is and well worth checking.

[kmillerusaf]

Well it's installed in the blue x16 slot >:| so I guess I will go with the format/reinstallation of XP

[pam123]

Originally Posted by kmillerusaf Well it's installed in the blue x16 slot >:| so I guess I will go with the format/reinstallation of XP

Drat!.

Save yourself grief and make sure you've got all your necessary internet connection instructions.

[kmillerusaf]

Internet instructions referring to? I know what order to install things if that's what you mean...

1. XP SP2
2. Motherboard drivers
3. Video Card drivers
4. Anti-virus/Spyware
5. XP SP2 updates (via internet)

Or correct me if I am wrong?

[pam123]

Originally Posted by kmillerusaf Internet instructions referring to? I know what order to install things if that's what you mean... XP SP2 Motherboard drivers Video Card drivers Anti-virus/Spyware XP SP2 updates (via internet) Or correct me if I am wrong?

If you can set up your internet connection with no trouble than disregard that.
Do not install the video drivers until you've completed a full update of XP and checked for the most recent chipset drivers for your motherboard.

[kmillerusaf]

Ah okay... I will install the XP updates first... I shouldn't have any problems with getting on the internet. I use a linksys router but I have the disc if I need it. And the only motherboard drivers that are new is a sound card driver that is 2 months newer than the driver that comes with the motherboard... I will be sure to install the video last of all these.

[kmillerusaf]

Well after a fresh install and getting everything situated (ran into a few problems), the fps improved on certain maps but stayed the same on others. So I guess a fresh install wasnt too painful on me since I did see some minor performance increases plus it had almost been 2 years since it was first installed. Either way though, I think ATI needs to improve their drivers since there is nothing else at this point I can do to try and improve the performance. Flagged PCI device still shows up in device manager despite me using CCC

[pam123]

If the sound is working well for you just ignore it for now.

You're in the perfect position to open a support ticket with Sapphire.

[pam123]

Originally Posted by kmillerusaf Well after a fresh install and getting everything situated (ran into a few problems), the fps improved on certain maps but stayed the same on others. So I guess a fresh install wasnt too painful on me since I did see some minor performance increases plus it had almost been 2 years since it was first installed. Either way though, I think ATI needs to improve their drivers since there is nothing else at this point I can do to try and improve the performance. Flagged PCI device still shows up in device manager despite me using CCC

Set a restore point and do the following :

On the driver disk go to the drivers/audio folder and in the 32bit/2K_XP folder run kb888111.exe Once you've done that, the sound will install correctly.

If it doesn't work the restore point will get you out of it.