Why a high end video card!

[Khalil]

I try to always recomend to my friends and customers alike to always buy high end video cards instead of mid-range.
Reason for this is top card always have the best longevity as far as being capable of keeping up with newer games over the years.
Recently I picked up at an auction 40 high end video cards for a good price, they were 7900GTX, 7950GX2 and ATI X1950XTX. I have not used these cards recently as most of the systems we build are brand new and we use the newest cards on the market.
David my lead tech and myself decided it would be fun to benchmark these cards to see how they scored in comparison to the newer ATI 5770 and the Nvidia 460, mind you these old cards are all DX9.
We used windows xp pro an older Asus motherboard and an AMD Athlon 5400, 80gb IDE 7200 rpm hard drive with 3 GB ram. We installed World of Warcraft, Bioshock 2, Call of Duty 4 (Modern Warfare) and Crysis.

To our surprise, there was very little difference in the performance between the new cards and the older high end cards, as a matter of fact we were getting better frame rates with the GX2s than the 460 and the 5770.
It was a fun experience and now I have a bunch of really good cards I can put in older rigs I can sell cheap to folks for under $400 and they can still game hard.
If you want to build a new gaming rig, always be patient and save up for the best video card you can get your hands on because it will last you the longest.

[jdeb]

Yeah, 256 bit memory interface is much better but you are going to pay for it unless someone gets lucky and buys a rig from you. I can see why you are so successful in your business when you could easily get more for a card you mentioned but your passing on excellent value to your customer at a reasonable price. There are very few good places where I live and that's why I build them on the side, if I had the capital, I would open a store front myself. I think you can still get 7900gtx for under 100.00 but the others are closer to 300 if I recall correctly. Heck, I have a 7950 gt ko in my test rig and that thing rocks, again it it 256 bit. I bought it brand new, in the box at a garage sale for 10.00, they didn't know what they had. I picked another one up for 40 on craigs list one time and sli'd to just see what all the hype was... It renders real well also. Another thing too with the NVidia cards you mentioned, the drivers are solid as well. Good stuff as always Khalil

[PAINx5]

The high end cards cost like 600$. for that price you can build a midrange computer.

[Khalil]

You can't build a decent new gaming rig for $600, nothing that can have good frame rates or enjoyable gaming experience.

[MaxRat]

I am still hanging on to my 4850X2-2gb cards in a Quadfire set up as they do real well...

the next decent thing that beats them is 2x5830s in crossfire but thats only number based benching...

for me the older cards work just fine...nice thread

[rwest]

I beg to differ Khalil:

Newegg.com - ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
ASUS M4A77D 80.00

Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision HDZ555WFGMBOX
AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 88.00

Newegg.com - A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD2U800B2G5-DRH
A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 78.00

Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 65.00

Newegg.com - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W 80.00

Newegg.com - ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - CD / DVD Burners
ASUS Black 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM 24.00

Newegg.com - Rosewill FB-01 Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, come with 1x 80mm Fan
Rosewill FB-01 Black ATX Mid Tower 30.00

Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - Operating Systems
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - OEM 99.00

used 3 promo codes comes to 654.80 and that includes shipping

guess I shoulda posted the vid card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121376
ASUS EAH4870 135.00

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by rwest I beg to differ Khalil: Newegg.com - ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard ASUS M4A77D 80.00 Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision HDZ555WFGMBOX AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 88.00 Newegg.com - A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model AD2U800B2G5-DRH A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 78.00 Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 65.00 Newegg.com - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W 80.00 Newegg.com - ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - CD / DVD Burners ASUS Black 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM 24.00 Newegg.com - Rosewill FB-01 Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, come with 1x 80mm Fan Rosewill FB-01 Black ATX Mid Tower 30.00 Newegg.com - Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - Operating Systems Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - OEM 99.00 used 3 promo codes comes to 654.80 and that includes shipping

add your video card and Khalil is correct

[rwest]

I did just edit with the vid card, and the total includes it. I would have added a smiley but the edit function doesn't allow it.i

OH, and please don't tell me the 4870 can't game.

Seriously though, I do understand Khalil's point. Any body see amy problems witht the build, other than a cheap case. There haven't been a lot of reccomendations for the calisto core. What's the pros comment on these processors?

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by rwest I did just edit with the vid card, and the total includes it. I would have added a smiley but the edit function doesn't allow it.i OH, and please don't tell me the 4870 can't game.

your stretching it brother... I don't know

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by rwest I did just edit with the vid card, and the total includes it. I would have added a smiley but the edit function doesn't allow it.i OH, and please don't tell me the 4870 can't game. Seriously though, I do understand Khalil's point. Any body see amy problems witht the build, other than a cheap case. There haven't been a lot of reccomendations for the calisto core. What's the pros comment on these processors?

Why would anyone suggest the 4870 can't game? That is a top notch card for its time, it sold for $499 when it first came out, that is what my original post was about, cards like the 4870 and GTX 275s, 285s can last a very long time.

[MaxRat]

yep I am still running a gtx275 in my main rig...still runs very well as well...I wont change it until a much better card comes out...

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Khalil Why would anyone suggest the 4870 can't game?

I was refering to the statement that one can't build a gamer for $600.00, honestly that particular comment I made wasn't really called for.

I am curious as to your take on the Calisto core cpu's, especially in a system as was posted. What would the benefits be with a Deneb core?

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by rwest I was refering to the statement that one can't build a gamer for $600.00, honestly that particular comment I made wasn't really called for. I am curious as to your take on the Calisto core cpu's, especially in a system as was posted. What would the benefits be with a Deneb core?

You mean the benefit over the Athlon II processors? The 6MB L3 can come in very handy with CPU intensive applications like photoshop, video and audio editing, it can also come in handy with certain games like Supreme Commander 2.
Other than that you won't notice much difference in the performance over Regor.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Khalil You mean the benefit over the Athlon II processors?

No, I was thinking that at one time the Deneb came in a dual core. But I'm now thinking it never did. Not sure.

What I am curious about, when I compared processors on newegg the Deneb doesn't show having any kind of instruction. So I've been wondering How the Calisto processor would compare to the Deneb in a gaming system. Or would that really depend on the game being played? Whereas its been said time and again- for a gaming system you really only need a strong dual core. Any benefit with a Deneb over the Calisto? Other than the obvious one or two more cores?

[Khalil]

If you play any of the following games:
Alan Wake
Bioshock
Company of Heroes
Crysis
Far Cry 2
Half-life 2: Episode 2
Hellgate: London
Lost Planet
Microsft Flight Sim X
Portal
Rainbow Six Vegas
Source Engine
Splinter Cell Double Agent
STALKER
Stranglehold
Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander 2
Unreal Engine 3
Unreal Tournament 3
Then the Deneb will give you an edge as these games utilize all 4 cores on a quad core.
There are probably other games too that do the same.

[rwest]

So to tie into the original post,

if you had apx 7-8 hundred bucks and wanted to play any of these games do you still support this statement:

Originally Posted by Khalil I try to always recomend to my friends and customers alike to always buy high end video cards instead of mid-range.

ie I just posted a decent budget gamer utilizing a dual core with a high end card and spent about $650 bucks, another 1-2 hundred dollars on a vid card doesn't quite reach the latest high end cards does it?

But the money would get us a quad core and a nice mid range card.

You should know by now-I love to argue.

You don't have a curly hair anywhere on your body if you can't defend your statement.

[Khalil]

I would rather have the top end video card from a previous generation than a midrange card from a current range. 256+ bit and bandwidth is the main thing I look at in a video card.
I don't sell new gaming rigs under $1000 because I like producing quality and performance, that makes for happy customers. I want my customer to go home and play any game out there without problems or lag and I want it to last them at least 2 years without needing an upgrade!
That is money well spent.
For 7-800 you can built a PC that can game but how well is it going to game? If you want half a$$ gaming, might as well just buy an XBOX for $200 and you are good to go.
I get people in all the time who built their own "gaming" rig and spent the $500 who complain about constantly losing in pvp combat, I always tell them they should not go to a gun fight with armed with a butter knife, they will more than likely lose.
So it really all depends on what your standards are and how good you want your rig to game. If it is ok for you to lock up and lag then a cheap machine will work, if you want to really enjoy the experience then saving money and buying the better component is definately worth it.

[rwest]

Very well said. Touche'

also this says alot:

Originally Posted by Khalil I don't sell new gaming rigs under $1000 because I like producing quality and performance

and hence explains and supports your initial post.

I think I get it now.

Botton line: If you really want the 'benefits' from playing games on a pc, don't try to build a it for less than $1000.00 huh?

Otherwise just spend the money on a console.

[David M]

Agreed, I get frustrated at seeing guys coming in here with $800 expecting fast gaming rigs. Go buy an X-Box or a PS3 and save the difference for a few $60 games.

[id10x]

lol khalil you and me will have a word about this post , you must promote my
tech level one grade up .

my thoughts are similar to yours and here is profs from previous posts so you dont say
am making things up ,

Originally Posted by Khalil I try to always recomend to my friends and customers alike to always buy high end video cards instead of mid-range.

Originally Posted by David M Agreed, I get frustrated at seeing guys coming in here with $800 expecting fast gaming rigs. Go buy an X-Box or a PS3 and save the difference for a few $60 games.

comment :

the end of main stream cards

Originally Posted by id10x is this the end of main stream cards aka low end cards in vga series ? after the poor improvements in the 9xxx series over the 8xxx series nvidia stopped making low end cards such the 8600 and the 9600 gt and started making gtx cards and ignored the so called budget cards .. as well as we going to see in the fermi series all will be high end cards rights ? yes the GTX380 will be better than the GTX360 but both are still gtx and will sell as high end cards . correct ? maybe the competition and the hardware demanding gaming market will put vga budget users to instinct . or turn to console gaming once and for all .

================================================

Originally Posted by Khalil I would rather have the top end video card from a previous generation than a midrange card from a current range.

comment :

Originally Posted by id10x at any time i would buy the tuned high end card of a series than to get the lower end one of the next ..

what really made a controversial in my case is that the top of the 9xxx
wasnt such an accomplishment and i didnt have the necessary knowledge
to understand that fact .
so now i must use my information and studies before i go at the titles
when buying pc parts .

what is up and coming for me is a gpu upgrade in Q1 2011
and am not going for a 5830 .. no matter haw good it was vs the 260 1 gb
i would make a try and listen to you but that would be for the 5850
not the 5830 , but the price difference is favoring the fermi so far .
ati is good when it comes to cutting older cards prices , by then
if the 5850 went under 280 $ i might kamikaze

[id10x]

Star Wolves 3: Civil War is just simply one of the best space games i played so far and believe me i played them all , graphics are simple but beauty to the eye , and game play makes you wounder if its a simulation or rpg
its a mix of both actually , the massive open ended universe makes a multi player for that game even grater , but there isnt any multi player .

edited : srry this post is in the wrong thread , i wanted to put it as a separate thread but i added it here .
anyway still its a good game