Riddle driving me up the wall!!

[compusport]

So I have my 10 year old niece staying with us for the summer and she has taken over one of the computers. No problems there, we give her some time each day. This morning though she came across a riddle on one of her sites and asked me to help her solve it. "No problem" I say.......

This one has had me going ever since!!! I even tried cheating and googling for something similar. No luck though. Anyone wanna give it a crack?

[py258]

wow that is very wierd. I can't seem to find a pattern or anything at all either.

[compusport]

I know. I tried giving the known letters an "x" value and tried going from there, but there isn't a total to put on the opposite side of the equation. And I really can't find a pattern to the number values of the letters

[HAL9000]

I'm betting on the simplist answer.... there's no such thing as a 1000 doubloon coin.

[discodanman45]

The two vowels were 2 dubloons, so I am thinking athat A, E, I , O , and U are all two dubloons, besides that no clue

[HAL9000]

Ya.. I noticed that as well

[discodanman45]

Hal, sorry there is a 1,000 dubloon coin. Check out the link

http://www.geocities.com/secretofneopia/dubloon.html

[HAL9000]

ok.. was just a guess (but at the same time... your link is in reference to a game, not real life)... I'm betting the Y is 2 doubloons tho... as stated, the vowels were 2... if Y were only 1 at one time, that would explain why it went up as Y is sometimes considered a vowel.

[discodanman45]

sorry, that was just a bad joke with a link. I have tried everything from morse code, to relating it with months of the year, I am stumped.

[compusport]

well if vowels are two and Y is three, I wonder if those are breaks in the pattern. Either that or they might be based on rarity of letters kinda like scrabble values

[HAL9000]

I would relate the Y to being two as well.... Vowels = 2.. Y is SOMETIMES a vowel... if it were already 2 and went up, it would be three, but then it would be too much for a vowel... it would have had to been 1 and gone up to 2.

[compusport]

well I thought I was onto something, but maybe not. According to a search on a cryptogram site, this is the most common letters:
In order of most common to least common:
1. E
2. T
3. A, O, N, R, I, S
4. H
5. D, L, F, C, M, U
6. G, Y, P, W, B
7. V, K, X, J, Q, Z

But that doesn't totally explain why B C and G have the same value

[Fibre Optix]

Captain thought it was too expensive...so he went home and made his own sign...

In other words I can't find the pattern.

I thought I was on to something when I tried applying it to the phrase...

W E L C O M E ...
1 2 3 3 2 1 2 But it makes no sense.

[HAL9000]

You would THINK the next key would be determining which letter is 8 and why.

[compusport]

The part that is irking me the most is that I looked over her shoulder at this kids' site and i'm wondering how they expect children to come up with the answer???

[HAL9000]

Well, 9 times outta 10, these riddles give you TOO much information to mask the one little glitch right in front of you... that's what I haven't figured out yet.

[HAL9000]

I THINK I've got it... the simplist answer is usually right...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well," the signmaker said, "my pricing is based on which letters you use. Some letters are quite pricey, while others are absolutely free.
For example, the letter A costs two dubloons, B costs three dubloons, C costs three dubloons,
D costs one dubloon, E costs two dubloons, F costs one dubloon, G costs three dubloons, and H's are absolutely free!
But I'm sure you don't need me to list off all of them. Still, the most expensive letter is only eight dubloons.
And don't forget, the price of the letter Y recently went up."
Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made, and handed the signmaker a one thousand dubloon coin to pay for it.
How much change should Cap'n Threelegs receive?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK... I'm thinking what I have bolded is the key to the solution... think about it this way... this is a children's riddle and like I mentioned, 9 times outta 10, the answer is usually very simple....

Think of the sign as a letter.. not a character, but a letter you write... Still, the most expensive letter is 8 doubloons... meaning he gets 992 doubloons change.

[doctorgonzo]

I don't think that's the simplest answer, though. Usually, when these kinds of riddles use double meanings like that, it goes out of its way to not give away which meaning of the word is being used. But here, it is clear that the riddle uses the word "letter" to mean a glyph: "the letter A costs two dubloons." If the riddle had said "the character A costs two dubloons," then maybe the word 'letter' would mean the whole sign.

I still think there is a trick, though. The phrase "Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made" sounds most contorted, so I wonder if the trick is there.

[WhatsThisBoxFor?]

Heres my guess:
Maybe he got 1000 dubloons change because the sign maker couldn't change a 1000 dubloon coin.

Thats probably completly wrong, but still, what is the website (it might have the answer on).

[HAL9000]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo I don't think that's the simplest answer, though. Usually, when these kinds of riddles use double meanings like that, it goes out of its way to not give away which meaning of the word is being used. But here, it is clear that the riddle uses the word "letter" to mean a glyph: "the letter A costs two dubloons." If the riddle had said "the character A costs two dubloons," then maybe the word 'letter' would mean the whole sign. I still think there is a trick, though. The phrase "Cap'n Threelegs commissioned the sign to be made" sounds most contorted, so I wonder if the trick is there.

That's just my point tho... it's a play on words.. "letter" has two meanings... this is a children's riddle... to look beyond that is too complicated for a child... they're not gonna say character A as it just sounds dumb and leaves out the play on words.

Think about it... some letters are expensive (3) while others are absolutely free (anything over 8 doubloons would be free and the fact that H is free is irrelevant)... still the most expensive letter (not a character) is only 8 doubloons.

[compusport]

ok, now that i've left for a while and came back to it, I came up with the same logic that Hal did... the entire sign is only 8 dubloons.... since we aren't given all the math and there's no recognizable pattern, then the wordplay must be the answer.


P.S. my neice thinks i'm an idiot for coming up with that answer

[HAL9000]

So does she have the right answer or are we screwed?

[compusport]

that's the part that sucks.... we don't get to find out until Tuesday or so.... I'll definately post the answer or at the very least PM it to you if you want?

[HAL9000]

Post it PM it or whatever... I wanna know the answer... I'm POSTITIVE I'm right.... and first to post it too

[Quintz]

Yes please post it!

[Panama Red]

I haven't found the answer, but I may have found the source of the question. Looks like it's some kind of kids' site called "Neopets". The Swashbuckling Academy uses dubloons to train pets (?). The whole thing may be just pure fantasy.

http://www.ceruleantown.com/sots/bdome.shtml

[sleepypost]

Well, this riddle is terrifying to say the least. I will be VERY disappointed if the answer HAL gave is actually supposed to be the correct answer. That is a terrbile play on words because the definition of a "sign" and a "letter" is very very very very very very very very very different. If this is a childrens' riddle, and that is the 'correct' answer, then that teaches the child to blur the definitions of words, and that is dangerous because it leads to sloppy rhetoric.


But in this case, i guess the sign he wants made is in reality a sort of letter, since it is directed at a limited audience, and it is in fact a greeting. So I'll agree with HAL on this one, even though he failed to define the actual wording of the sign as that of the structure of a typical 'letter'. That is crucial in the jusification of why it costs 8 dubloons since it is a 'letter' and not just a sign. If the wording for the sign was, "CITY OF LAFAYETTE" that would NOT be a definitional 'letter', but rather is just a sign. So it is important to point out the fact that this particular "sign" is really a "letter to someone". Since there are many signs that are actually just signs and nothing more. Like "WENDY'S" or "NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT". "WELCOME YURBLES....." is a letter. Important to point this out. It cements and justifies HAL's conclusion.

[Vigo]

Ugh, stop calling it a riddle. Its a math problem. And since I'm here let me say this: I was tricked. I never would have clicked this link if I thought the riddle involved math!

[HAL9000]

I'm positive the ONLY math involved in this is 1000-8=992 ... this come from a KID'S website.. how difficult do you expect the math to be?

[compusport]

"If this is a childrens' riddle, and that is the 'correct' answer, then that teaches the child to blur the definitions of words, and that is dangerous because it leads to sloppy rhetoric."

(sorry, don't know how to do a proper quote)

Actually i'd say that if Hal's answer is the correct one, it teaches lateral thinking rather then just plain ABC linear logic. kinda like the old "how many animals on Moses' ark" riddle.... Noah had the ark, but we follow the story of the math rather than looking for the facts. another one that comes to mind is "where did they bury the survivors?".