Colleges

[foolishone]

Alright, I am in the process of looking for higher education, college,university, whatever. I am not an "artsee" kind of person and only which to pursue a career in math, maybe something like operations research, and computers, most likely network administration, computer systems analyst, a touch of programming and the like. Before I search for such a place, does one exist, if so what do you call them, and do you have any in mind?

My main goal is to walk out of a building come X amount of years later with a degree/diploma in hand of any of the careers listed above, math and/or information/computer technology, (and possibly physics, but I will figure that out), without taking any, maybe one if I have too, english, theology, philosophy "rhetical and compostion course"-as it stated in one catalog, and the like, courses. (That ended wierd.)

^fo

[Force Flow]

Take a look here:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=122432

The first half of the thread may help out a little.

[Stuey]

I go to a state university of new york, and it offers everything you mention. You seem to have a few misconceptions about college though.

1. You almost always have to take general education courses like english, history, etc. to earn a degree. Most reputable universities mandate this. The technical schools that advertise on TV and the NYC subway probably follow different guidelines.

You can probably study computer science with a minor or double major in math. You mentioned "and possibly physics". There is no way you can have two majors and a minor out of these groups. You might be able to walk away with a BA and a minor or two BAs or a BS and a minor. I'm not in any place to give advice to be taken seriously, but I recommend that you decide what track to follow within your first year by taking courses in physics, computer science, and calculus if possible.

If you want information about a physics degree, message me or something. Your educational desires seem to be fragmented. You mentioned computer tech, math, and physics. For math and physics you need a university for adequate training. For computer tech, you can go for a computer science degree or a small specialized accelerated training program of some kind.

[foolishone]

In the other thread it mentioned :

In order for any school to be eligible for Federal student aid, they HAVE to teach English/Math etc...An option you may want to consider...the US Air Force.

(Quote from a reply to a member that wants to stay away from the liberal arts thing)

For some reason I thought that the USAF also had to teach english. I don't know. About the USAF, how does it work? You agree to serve X amount of years after your education, I know, but do you like go to a base and study classes, including the career class you chose, serve, and then that's it. How high a degree do they offer? How is it different than ROTC at the many of colleges that offer it. I know about ROTC and the classes, and the specs, like tutition being paid, evenly partly, of the program, but if I go to a college, in a ROTC class, the college is still going to give me the english, etc., which I can deal with, but how is it different than just going full throttle into the AF.

About the physics, I love it, but I cannot see myself doing it day in and day out for the next 45-50 years. Plus you can't get anywhere in physics without a masters, and I would like to put the time into something that I would more enjoy.

^fo

[doctorgonzo]

If you want to learn a lot about math, information/computer technology, and physics, go to a library and read all you can about these subjects. You won't get a diploma, but the only monetary cost is the amount of late fees you end up paying. If you simply want knowledge, a library is your best bet.

If you want a diploma, you are going to have to go to a college and take classes in English, writing, and other non-tech subjects. Colleges are not interested in turning out reference books (we already have libraries, which is why you should go that route if you just want the knowledge). People need to be well-rounded in order to be successful today. A business doesn't want to hire a reference book (they can buy them for cheaper). A business needs somebody who can write two pages for upper management analyzing the pros and cons for a major IT purchase. A reference book can't do that.

[Stuey]

Well, in pure physics, you cannot get anywhere with less than a PhD, really. But if you like physics, you can go for a BA or a BS and then go for a masters in something else, or persue tracks which can be related like computer science/engineering and physics.

If you know what aspects of physics you like, you can try to minor in physics and take courses applicable to what you like. Computer science + material science will get you a respectable position in computer technology industries.

Anyways, I'd suggest applying to larger universities as they have more options. Make sure they have the tracks you are considering. Then, once you decide where you are going, you can try different things out and you can consult advisors as to what choice will better suit you. Or you might end up falling into a major.

good luck!

[thefultonhow]

I think that Gonzo is right. Too many of our peers see college as a trade school, but it's really not meant to be that. If you want specialized training, go to graduate school. But what college is really meant to do is to teach modes of thinking, ways of problem-solving, and just to make you a well-rounded individual. For that reason, I would srongly recommend going outside your comfort zone and maybe getting a CS, math or engineering degree, but still going to a school that has very strong programs in the humanities.

[Stuey]

Out of the 30 academic courses I've taken (or am currently taking) as an undergrad, 22 courses are for my major. This doesn't include research credits or credits accrued as a lab instructor, or gym credits. Anyways, less extensive majors such as economics require about 10 courses for a BA and 16 courses for a BS. Other sciences have similar requirements. Graduate school is about becoming an expert in your chosen field through more extensive hands on involvement.

Yea, so that's just my two cents.

[Jaggannath]

Originally Posted by foolishone In the other thread it mentioned : For some reason I thought that the USAF also had to teach english. I don't know. About the USAF, how does it work? You agree to serve X amount of years after your education, I know, but do you like go to a base and study classes, including the career class you chose, serve, and then that's it. How high a degree do they offer? How is it different than ROTC at the many of colleges that offer it. I know about ROTC and the classes, and the specs, like tutition being paid, evenly partly, of the program, but if I go to a college, in a ROTC class, the college is still going to give me the english, etc., which I can deal with, but how is it different than just going full throttle into the AF. ^fo

If the USAF is anything like over here, here's the deal you'd get:
You do a degree which takes you, for Maths/Science, then you owe back an extra 3 years for the degree, plus one year extra. After that, you can re-enlist or leave. As to the work you'll do, generally you have to sign on as a trade before you can choose your degree, though they usually prefer it to be career-specific. You could sign on as a pilot, or an Air-Traffic Controller, and then after you finish your degree you go out and finish your Return of Service by completing your qualification courses, and then doing the job for the specified period of time.

[foolishone]

I realized that you were in Austraila, and wanted to ask, just was does a person in the Armed Forces do in Austraila? You guys haven't started anything, as in conflicts, and the only threat to your culture or country/continent, is a kangroo virus. Just kidding!!

Anyway, thanks for your info, I think that it is similar to the program we run here.

^fo

[mc2phat]

The US Air Force has a few different routes available to you. Enlistment requires working. They technically train you for a specialty, then you go do the job. What you do is go to college in your off time. They have a 75% tuition reimbursement program, the GI Bill, free CLEP exams (this benefit came in VERY handy), etc. Through the AF training you will earn an Associate degree from the Community College of the Air Force. It's accredited but like most as's it's pretty useless in and of itself. What you'd want to do, is get a SIGNED GUARANTEED technical school (job) for the discipline you wish to pursue, apply yourself and get really good at it, complete some certs, and finish a bachelor's degree. Then if you wanted to separate from the AF you'd be ready to rock in the private sector.
On the commissioned officer side of things there's ROTC while in college, the AF Academy, and maybe some other routes.

I was on active duty for seven years and spent my down time recreating and drinking. I wish I'd been mature enough at the time not to squander the educational benefits available to me.

[mc2phat]

Foolishone,

I worked with some Australian Navy enlisted troops when i was in. I also hear the Australian Marines are tough as nails.

[foolishone]

With the degree that the USAF gives you, could I go to graduate school, and say "Give me every course you have on this subject" and walk out years later with a masters, or even a Phd, without having to take the english/lit classes again (except for the ones the USAF would make me take)?

^fo

[mc2phat]

No. The CCAF degree still requires freshman english, a couple humanities, etc. Look, the first thing you need to do, no offense here, is accept the fact you are going to HAVE to take core courses in the humanities, english/comp, science, and other gen ed courses to earn a bachelor's ("four year") or even an associate's ("two year") degree. That's just life. If you find a "school" that will give you a "degree" without such core courses, the accreditation will be suspect or non-existent, thus the degree will be worth nothing. Again, no offense intended. Please read the other post Force Flow linked to in its entirety if you haven't done so.

[foolishone]

Yeah I have accepted that fact, I was just asking if a college/university would make me take them again if I had a whatever from the Air Force, as I am assuming majority of most schools accept the USAF degrees and would let me expound upon it.

No offense taken by the way

I just might have found a university that only makes you take few semesters of english/lit., which I can definitely handle, with five or six courses being like philosophy, and the like, but not like the english/lit. I will have to find out more about it though.

^fo

[Jaggannath]

Originally Posted by foolishone I realized that you were in Austraila, and wanted to ask, just was does a person in the Armed Forces do in Austraila? You guys haven't started anything, as in conflicts, and the only threat to your culture or country/continent, is a kangroo virus. Just kidding!! ^fo

No offence taken on my behalf, although others in my situation might.... in response, Aussie troops spend a lot of their time supporting US operations in areas such as Afghanistan, Iraq (noticed every other country bar virtually the UK, Japan and AUstralia have pulled out) and other such conflicts. We also take the lead in peacekeeping and enforcement issues in areas of the Pacific such as Solomon Islands and East Timor, so that the US can concentrate elsewhere or give their troops time off.

And McPhat, Australia doesn't have Marines per se.... however, our equivalent are as tough as nails, I can assure you


Oh btw FO, you might want to read this wrt the college thing: Desirable Skills

[foolishone]

Now see, I never knew what the Austraila troops did. Call me what you will but I never knew that the Aussie troops were fighting along side the US troops. Also I am not up on the Pacific current events, so it is interesting to here what other countries are doing which their troops, ours are always solving polictical problems with other countries, aka wars, etc. It must be nice to live in a peace keeping nation, where peace is a major priority in everything it tries to accomplish.

^fo

[mc2phat]

Australian troops fought and died in WWI, WWII (they were there on the Normandy beaches), Korea. I'm not sure about Vietnam.

[Jaggannath]

Yup, Vietnam they were there. Pretty much every major conflict including the Malayan Crisis and the Confrontasi

There’s a huge difference between getting an education and just getting a diploma. I have taught in both large universities and small colleges and I think the small colleges are better. Last I checked Ph.D. stood for Doctorate of Philosophy.
I’m also a Vietnam Vet and yes the Australians were there and they were tough as nails.

[rightcoast]

Not to metion they have as much at stake in the current "War on terror" as we (The U.S. is we to me) do. I have a friend named miles I surf with all the time, he speaks of the Sari Club bombing like American's do of 9/11. He tells me the surfing community of Australia thought of it not only as attack against thier country, but them personally. Which I can see having been to Indo and made the nightly trek to Sari to pound Arak Attacks and Bintang (sp) with those feral west ozzies.

I just read this, I know your a good person, we all are here. But you really should read up before you say something like that. It is the sterotypical American attitude. Depending on who you say that to, it could be like mocking our efforts to a member of the New York Fire Dept. Just something to keep in mind.

Edit:I should have said Sari club and Paddy's bar. It was a coordinated attack.

[Jaggannath]

Here's a little file so that you all can understand what the general Aussie perspective of the Sari Club and Paddy's Bar bombings were... I'm not getting political or religious, and I don't feel the tone of this attachment is. I've scanned the FAQ's and I don't think it exceeds the size or decency limits. However, there is a very small amount of low level cursing (and one swear word) so if you object please be aware of this before viewing.
Sari Club Poem