Do you know what manners are?

[el_novato]

I was driving home from school tonight when I heard the most ridiculous commercial to date on the radio. It was for a video (aimed at parents) that would teach children manners. The lady said they would learn manners that would never be forgotten. I'm thinking, "yea right". When exactly did parents stop teaching their children? And we wonder why kids nowadays are so troubled? It seems we humans think that the backseat entertainment in the car and the tube along with the VCR or DVD player are all that's needed. Of course, I'm not saying that every parent is like that, but they are few and far between. What gets me is that when something goes wrong, we look in every other direction except for where we really need to look, the way the kids are raised and what they are taught, in other words, the parents themselves.

e.n.

In case some of you wonder why I don't include myself, well, I don't have any kids. Yet.

[Cricket]

Our society is on the decline.

Cricket

[DonVito]

societies whole problem these days isnt violence in video games or cursing. Its simply bad parenting! who cares if theres a south park or gta. If your a good parent you just simply say no and dont let your kids have that stuff. thats a great example el navato. People expect other people or the government to raise thier kids and keep them from bad things. Then when there kids misbehave or do something bad its never the kids fault acording to the parent. Then theres the parent who over shelters. And once there kids get into the real world and face decisions they don't know what to do!!!

(my sisters a teacher and is always telling me how she sees this everyday)


EDIT: you just say no and dont let them have that stuff

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by Cricket Our society is on the decline.

And that is sad.

Many parents these days just don't know what to do with kids or how to raise them in a reasonable manner.

[DonVito]

Originally Posted by Force Flow And that is sad. Many parents these days just don't know what to do with kids or how to raise them in a reasonable manner.

of course, im sure thats exactly what our parents were thinking ten years ago

[mountainking]

Originally Posted by AMD_freak societies whole problem these days isnt violence in video games or cursing. Its simply bad parenting! who cares if theres a south park or gta. If your a good parent you just simply say no and dont let your kids have that stuff. thats a great example el navato. People expect other people or the government to raise thier kids and keep them from bad things. Then when there kids misbehave or do something bad its never the kids fault acording to the parent. Then theres the parent who over shelters. And once there kids get into the real world and face decisions they don't know what to do!!! (my sisters a teacher and is always telling me how she sees this everyday) EDIT: you just say no and dont let them have that stuff

Thats how i was raised... i was WAY over sheltered. My parents were pretty much idiots when i was growing up. They were 2 couch potatos that sat in front of the tv ALL DAY LONG. I wasn't allowed to do anything. No tv, no games, no friends, no junkfood, no nothing. I lived my life sleeping and doing homework. I convinced them to let me do marching band but no sports. I had to purchase my own instument with lawn mowing money. It was the most pathetic thing you've ever seen. When I turned 18 I moved out of the house immidiately and went in a duplex that i shared with 2 other roomates. I was still in high school at the time. I had absolutly no idea what to do about anything. I STILL have troubles making decisions. It really was an ackward thing. My wife on the other hand had really successful parents that seemed like the type that would be really enforceful.. but nope... her parents didnt give a crap what she did. If at age 12 she was out till 5 am partying... "who cares?" was the attitude of the parents. She ended up way better than i am right now. She started making her own decisions so early that shes mastered them.. and she now does all our bills... and pretty much runs the entire household. I have no idea how to do all that crap. Ive heard of the "sink or swim" meathod and it seems to work for kids who dont have motivation in school. If you just give up on them they will make their own decisions for once and eventually decide to work hard. Kids DONT listen. Thats just human nature. You tell them one thing... they do the opposite. I truely believe that parents who overly worry about their kids grades usually have kids that do terrible in school. Thats just my belief.

[DonVito]

I must say i admire you for growing up and making a good life for you and your wife

(by the way nice rig)

[Cricket]

How's this for parenting...

A few years ago I was at a neighborhood park with my 5 nephews and 1 niece...it was a nice day and there were many other children there, some with parents, some without. I noticed a young father and daughter heading towards the park...the father was barely in his 20's and his daughter looked to be about 4, maybe 5 years old. The father's arms were covered with tatoos and they looked like jail house tats. When they reached the playground I heard this father tell his very young daughter..."okay, go play...but if any body gives you grief, punch 'em in the face..." and he walked away to hang out with a few guys who were hanging out in the parking lot. I couldn't believe what I just heard...and this little girl didn't seem to have any idea of how to play with other children. She approached some other young girls who were on the swings and started to bully them around. The parents of those girls came and took the girls away, so now this little girl started to look for other "targets" and saw 2 of my younger nephews who were playing on the jungle gym. She came by and within a few minutes was almost ready to fight with one of my nephews because she wanted to be where he was climbing. I grabbed my 2 nephews, looked for the other 3 nephews and 1 niece and we all went back to my brother-in-law's house.

I felt really sorry for that little girl and thought she would probably end up in jail when she got older because she was already so anti-social...and all because she had such a crummy father and probably a mother who wasn't much better. Sad.

Cricket

[DonVito]

Another thing i don't dont understand in homeshooling and skipping kids through multiple grades. theres so much more to school than reading and writing. IMO one of the bigest parts of school is learning how to make friends, be with kids your age,learning how to follow rules, and learn to communicate. if your a genius from homeschool or your super smart and in college when your 15, all that intelligence and ideas is useless if you can't make friends, follow rules or carry a good conversation. Like that girl in crickets story.

[mountainking]

Originally Posted by Cricket How's this for parenting... A few years ago I was at a neighborhood park with my 5 nephews and 1 niece...it was a nice day and there were many other children there, some with parents, some without. I noticed a young father and daughter heading towards the park...the father was barely in his 20's and his daughter looked to be about 4, maybe 5 years old. The father's arms were covered with tatoos and they looked like jail house tats. When they reached the playground I heard this father tell his very young daughter..."okay, go play...but if any body gives you grief, punch 'em in the face..." and he walked away to hang out with a few guys who were hanging out in the parking lot. I couldn't believe what I just heard...and this little girl didn't seem to have any idea of how to play with other children. She approached some other young girls who were on the swings and started to bully them around. The parents of those girls came and took the girls away, so now this little girl started to look for other "targets" and saw 2 of my younger nephews who were playing on the jungle gym. She came by and within a few minutes was almost ready to fight with one of my nephews because she wanted to be where he was climbing. I grabbed my 2 nephews, looked for the other 3 nephews and 1 niece and we all went back to my brother-in-law's house. I felt really sorry for that little girl and thought she would probably end up in jail when she got older because she was already so anti-social...and all because she had such a crummy father and probably a mother who wasn't much better. Sad. Cricket

Like i said.. being a good parent IS NOT disciplining. Its beeing a good role model. Your children 90% of the time are going to end up just like you. If you just act the way you want them to be... thats what they will be. If your just doing absolutly nothing and being a couch potato and telling your childrem what they cant do.. thats not going to teach them... At first I started out just like my dad... but my wife and i went to counsiling and im WAY better now. I do visit my parents quite a bit now though. I just dont think they really were ready to have kids. Im the youngest too... ive got 2 older brothers... one is serving over in iraq... and the other one is in prison. I dont visit them too often and I honestly dont care a whole lot if my brother does come back from iraq. Being that he attempted to kill me at age 23 i dont have a whole lot of sympathy for him anymore. Im just very thankful to have ended up nothing like any of them.

[el_novato]

Monkey see, monkey do. I partially agree with what your saying MountainKing, but I would have to say that discipline and setting an example go hand in hand. Discipline isn't just applied, it is shown as well. As for your situation, it's sad to see such animosity between brothers, but like you said, you will end up nothing like them and a much better person.

e.n.

[mountainking]

Yes.. you need to enforce some rules. But if your the exact opposite of what your trying to turn them into... its not gona work either. How are they supposed to listen to you when your saying "dont do that" when your doing it yourself. For instance... If your parents are having a party drinking lots of beer and getting drunk... and then they tell you not to get drunk and do drugs, will that prevent you from doing drugs? hell no.

[bigandy]

Originally Posted by mountainking Like i said.. being a good parent IS NOT disciplining. Its beeing a good role model. Your children 90% of the time are going to end up just like you.

Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things. I know that growing up with my parents divorced and constantly bickering, I've really learned a lot about how not to act. Maybe it's because I see it from this angle and I notice how uncomfortable it makes everyone (myself and two siblings, as well as anyone else who might be present). I know that from my mom being a smoker, I've made a promise to myself to never smoke anything (tobacco, marijuana, whatever). I'll admit that I'm a "typical" 18 year old kid in that I drink sometimes, but I don't go out every weekend and get completely trashed.

I've learned stuff from other people's parents too, both good and bad. I think the most important thing I've learned is that you have to trust you child(ren). If they make a mistake, then you act accordingly, if they make good decisions you act accordingly. In the last half a year, I've really learned a lot about the whole trust issue with parents and their children (not from me and my parents, but from somebody who I care a lot about and her father), and I've seen how bad things can get if a parent doesn't allow themselves to trust their kid.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by bigandy I think the most important thing I've learned is that you have to trust you child(ren). If they make a mistake, then you act accordingly, if they make good decisions you act accordingly. In the last half a year, I've really learned a lot about the whole trust issue with parents and their children (not from me and my parents, but from somebody who I care a lot about and her father), and I've seen how bad things can get if a parent doesn't allow themselves to trust their kid.

That's very true...trust is so important in any relationship. You see it in good relationships and you don't see it in bad relationships. Some people just can't trust others...I think it's because they don't trust themselves in the first place.

The world would be a much nicer place without people and all their hang-ups.

Cricket

[kstatefan40]

Originally Posted by AMD_freak Another thing i don't dont understand in homeshooling and skipping kids through multiple grades. theres so much more to school than reading and writing. IMO one of the bigest parts of school is learning how to make friends, be with kids your age,learning how to follow rules, and learn to communicate. if your a genius from homeschool or your super smart and in college when your 15, all that intelligence and ideas is useless if you can't make friends, follow rules or carry a good conversation. Like that girl in crickets story.

I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them. I wouldn't let myself be homeschooled, just because I feel it shelters me too much. I want to be around all the crap in high school - the drugs, the sex, the beer - just so say that I was strong enough to make the right decision and avoid it. Let the others ruin their lives, I'll savor mine, thanks. Its part of life, if you don't learn it at school, you won't know how to handle it in other times of life. I know this is going to get negative feedback, but its absolutely true from my perspective.

Mannors are taught, they aren't learned. You have to be brought up with them, because its something you can't learn easily. Parents need to look on how they did it in the older days - with close families, and semi-strict parenting.

[DonVito]

Originally Posted by kstatefan40 I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them. I wouldn't let myself be homeschooled, just because I feel it shelters me too much. I want to be around all the crap in high school - the drugs, the sex, the beer - just so say that I was strong enough to make the right decision and avoid it. Let the others ruin their lives, I'll savor mine, thanks. Its part of life, if you don't learn it at school, you won't know how to handle it in other times of life. I know this is going to get negative feedback, but its absolutely true from my perspective.

I wouldn't give that negative back thats exactly what i was talking about. Drugs, Sex, Bullies, mean bosses, dissapointment. Thats whats in the real world. you might as well learn it in high school cause your just gonna learn it once your out. As you said learning with people you don't like. Everywhere in life theres gonna be people you hate, coworkers, bosses, and you just have to deal with them.




p.s. i cant believe this is a thread on a pc help forum. feels like Dr. Phil

[el_novato]

Originally Posted by bigandy ...I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things. I know that growing up with my parents divorced and constantly bickering, I've really learned a lot about how not to act. Maybe it's because I see it from this angle...

This is true...however, many in the same situation end up exactly like there parents or even worse. The angle of perception that you have is a level of maturity that many don't have at that age and some will never have.

Mountainking, I completely agree with your previous post. Hence the reason I say that discipline and setting an example compliment each other.

A few months back, I saw a news article (I can't remember where) about students that did not say Please, Thank You, Sir, Ma'am etc in any instance. The students were asked why they didn't use their manners. Their answer? Their parents said they didn't need to. Sadly, they were all elementary kids.

e.n.

[mountainking]

I think theres too many parents out there that arent ready to have kids that have them. Thats why we live in such a screwed up world lol. Parents should learn HOW to be a parent before they decide to have kids.

[patrickt]

I read once that manners are the oil that keep the wheels of society turning smoothly. I tried to find the exact quote on-line but most sites for quotes did not even have a topic for manners or courtesy. I'm retired now but the last few years I was working we needed to teach basic manners to the people who were being hired.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by patrickt I'm retired now but the last few years I was working we needed to teach basic manners to the people who were being hired.

It's really sad when people don't even know what common courtesy is. I mean having to teach basic manners to new employees, that's just pathetic.

Cricket

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by kstatefan40 I agree 100%. School isn't about the homework, its about learning leadership, friendship, and how to learn with others, even if you don't like them.

That might be true in high school, but I don't think it's like that in college. Doing your homework and keeping up with your grades gets you that degree and that job, not your friends.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by bigandy Maybe I'm in that 10%, but I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot of times, kids see the mistakes their parents have made and make a promise to themselves to not end up doing the same things.

i feel that way as well. my dad was an alcoholic and spouse abuser....not to mention hes been running from the IRS for longer than ive been around for. i look at his lifestyle and look at mine, and look at how much better mine is as of now than his has ever been. from the way my dad treated me, my brother, and my mother throughout most of our lives, i cant really look at him as a father....more like a friend. he was never there for me when i played baseball....my mom was out on the field with me tossing me balls. she was the only woman out on the field, and she did it for 4 years. my dad only came to one of my baseball games, from which he only stayed for 15 minutes because he was meeting people at the bar down the street. when i was about 17 or 18 i could see myself headed down the same path, but then i realized that the fast life wasnt for me. now i strive to be the exact opposite of him.

[Floppyman]

Originally Posted by Markoman01027 That might be true in high school, but I don't think it's like that in college. Doing your homework and keeping up with your grades gets you that degree and that job, not your friends.

The key is finding the right balance between the two -- and a lot of people don't. It's important to keep up with your work and watch your grades, but at the same time you should not become antisocial (and this is coming from a person with 3 majors who never has time to party ).

College is much more stressful than High School, not only because the work is harder, but also because you are treading on your own for the first time and don't have Mom and Dad watching over your every move. It's the time in life when you start to become responsible (hopefully) and make your own decisions.

[austin1]

i dont understand how raising a kid the right way can be hard? does not make sense to me because if you take your kids out and do activities such as get them in hockey and go wach there games ect and have fun in doing so then that makes the kid not want to do stuff that they should'nt because they are to occupied with other stuff to worry about smoking dope, or drinking or anything else for that matter. and its really not that hard to raise a kid the right way all you need to do is get a good start when there young tell them to say thank you and please and get them into the habits of being nice.

[doctorgonzo]

Yes, it's not hard to know how to raise a kid if you yourself were raised correctly, but how many parents weren't?

Last weekend I was at a lake in the middle of nowhere in MN, killing some time. Behind me sat a couple of women who had to be no older than 25 by my guess. They were saying things to each other like "You should move to *insanely small town*, it's great!" and "What kind of horrible person doesn't even come with us to the bars anymore?" and "You should go to court and get your child support increased for that, that's what so-and-so did." It was only afterwards that I saw these people had children with them (though the "child support" comment did give away that somebody in that group had to), and these were fairly old kids given the ages of the mothers. When the kids showed up, the mothers were yelling, threatening to spank them, swearing...pretty much acting as far from a parent as you can.

I'm guessing that these young mothers weren't exactly raised right, and their children probably aren't going to know how to be a good parent unless they get really lucky. Bad habits do usually come in cycles, as the children see how the parents act and don't know any better. Yes, some very good kids are smart enough and are fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to see a better way of life, but that's unfortunately too rare.

I'm with Cricket on the "decline of our civilization" belief. I think the main problem is that it is just too easy to dehumanize people these days. You can live such a sheltered life with technology and irrational fears that you lose all empathy and stop seeing other people as being just like yourself. Instead, it's "me first" and away with everybody else. It's sad.

[Force Flow]

I'm with Cricket on the "decline of our civilization" belief. I think the main problem is that it is just too easy to dehumanize people these days. You can live such a sheltered life with technology and irrational fears that you lose all empathy and stop seeing other people as being just like yourself. Instead, it's "me first" and away with everybody else. It's sad.

You can save the world, but you can try to help your community.

On an unrelated note...

You know, it's strange. I've noticed that what used to be the class of "normal working stiffs" are straying further and further away from "normality". Wheras the groups of people who where typlically considered outcasts (geeks, artists, writers, etc), are looking like more well-rounded and respectful people.

[kstatefan40]

Originally Posted by Force Flow You know, it's strange. I've noticed that what used to be the class of "normal working stiffs" are straying further and further away from "normality". Wheras the groups of people who where typlically considered outcasts (geeks, artists, writers, etc), are looking like more well-rounded and respectful people.

You mean like us?

[lil Jimmie]

Did any of you watch that new TV show on ABC called "Brat Camp"?
This topic made me think of it, I don't intend for this topic to get hijacked but this thread and show both hit a simular cord with me.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by lil Jimmie Did any of you watch that new TV show on ABC called "Brat Camp"? This topic made me think of it, I don't intend for this topic to get hijacked but this thread and show both hit a simular cord with me.

very good show. im not one for reality TV, but to see these kids get a dose of reality made the show good.

[austin1]

"jerry springer is better"