Airbags on motorcycles

[samurai helmet]

Do they really work?

[Jaggannath]

I really hope that's a joke... looks way too weird

[lil Jimmie]

No, I don't think it's a joke, I caught a part of a show where they were talking about airbags for bikes while I was clicking through the channels. I don't recall what show it was on but it was a program on the Speed Channel. The airbag did appear to absorb the impact of a head on collision rather well.

It does look odd to me.

Looks like the 2006 Honda Gold wing has one

[mbossman2]

its not....this has been on the honda drawing board for several years...


this video makes a compelling case...

[bosco]

Just dosen't seem practical to me. I think it would act like a spring board and eject you off the bike and into the air.

[colecifer]

Originally Posted by bosco Just dosen't seem practical to me. I think it would act like a spring board and eject you off the bike and into the air.

Thats what i always thought, but apparently it gets in your way and slows you down so you'll be thrown off the bike at a slower speed.

[avx]

I think I would much rather have my head bashed into a car for a quick painless death, then to have a pleasent ride on the asphalt and feel the skin and muscle tissue being ripped from my bones and spend months(possibly years) in physical therapy and be physical mutilated. Just my opinion though...

[bosco]

Originally Posted by avx to have a pleasent ride on the asphalt and feel the skin and muscle tissue being ripped from my bones and spend months(possibly years) in physical therapy and be physical mutilated. Just my opinion though...

Gotta wear the right protective equipment to minimize or eliminate road rash.

[Jaggannath]

Originally Posted by bosco Gotta wear the right protective equipment to minimize or eliminate road rash.

Won't stop a crushed pelvis and 6 months in traction

[bosco]

Originally Posted by Jaggannath Won't stop a crushed pelvis and 6 months in traction

That wasn't the comment I was talking about. I'm pretty sure he was commenting on road rash. Skidding across the road.

[Sauron]

So this brings us all down to the common point - motorcycles are dangerous, why endanger your life?! Go SUV! Ooo and for all of you speed freaks, theres a vechicle called the Land Rover Sport

[mystvearn]

That picture is real, and the airbag idea is from Honda.
Driving tons of motorcycles for the past 6 years and I can say that is dangerous. Unless they provide side airabags to cushion your fall. Though it mught save you from death on impact, the side where you fall down will still be as fatal-furthermore if you slide down the road.

[tomster2300]

I think they ought to make a suit which inflates and provides a protective shell around you (like in the bond movies). Make it have a drawstring attached to the bike so when you get kicked off it inflates automatically. I'm not sure what would power it and make it inflate that quickly though. It would have to be fully around you in less than a second most likely to be useful.

EDIT: Just viewed the movie, that airbag looks promising. What happens if you get sideswiped though?

[Jaggannath]

Why not just outlaw motorcycles?? Simple solution

[bosco]

Yea, lets outlaw cars and SUV's too. People die in them also. Walking is better for you anyway. Don't run with sissors.

[Stryker]

I would be curious to see the same video, but simulating an impact at a slight angle to the car instead of perfectly perpendicular to the car. Something tells me the results wouldn't be quite so favorable to the rider. In real life, I'm betting the chances of hitting a car at a perfect 90' angle are pretty slim.

[mbossman2]

something like 70% of the motorcycle accidents occur from the front 90 degrees (in fact almost 50% of those come from the left front --- that's the dumb cager making a left turn right in front of the motorcycle ---- "I never saw them")...the point of an airbag (as well as all the other protective gear: helmet, leathers, gloves, body armor and now airbags) is not to give you 100% protection (nothing will do that) but to minimize damage and maximize potential surviability.

If you look at the video, the non-airbag protected rider probably would have had a 100% fatal impact (30mph or so head-first into a solid object will do that). Changing that to a 5-10-15 mph impact with the ground changes it from almost certain death to a survivable impact. will it make riding absolutely safe? no...will it turn a fatal accident into something survivable? hell yes.

now as to some of the other comments:

Road rash

- eminently preventable. Wear appropriate gear, either leather or appropriate textiles, gloves, pants and jackets, road rash is greatly reduced (shorts, jeans just won't it cut it). remember, death cures pain...but then again so does time....and remember, death is a permanent condition

Motorcycles are dangerous

- yes they can be, in the hands of an inexperienced, unlicensed rider they are death machines (60% of motorcycle accidents occur with unlicensed operators). Proper training and licensing lowers the liklihood of accidents rather dramatically. Now, do riders accept that responsibility? yes, every rider (should) knows that every ride could be your last ride...but every (responsible) rider takes great steps to minimize the potential of death or injury but their gear and their riding style. Another major contributor to motorcycle accidents is alcohol (suprise, surprise)...

Motorcycles should be banned

before you jump all over motorcycles/motorcyclists, remember, motorcycles are:
Smaller - they take up less space
Weigh less - less wear and tear on the road
More fuel efficient that autos/trucks/SUV's (most bikes get over 40mpg and many reach into the 60-80mpg range)
Fewer emissions - not 100% but shortly that will be true
Use less resources to build (less metal, less plastics etc, therefor less energy)
Cost less than a car (my bike cost $8k new, how many new cars can say the same thing)

if you look overseas, you will find far more bikes/scooters on the road than you do here.

Plus, they are a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

and riders, according to some studies, are better car drivers than your average driver (fewer accidents).

For you speed freaks, the average motorcycle will easily out accelerate all but the highest end sports cars and put, say a Hayabusa against a supercharged supercar and it is no contest: the bike will win every time. As an example, my ride, VStar 1100 will turn a sub 12 second quarter mile, a V8 Corvette does the same 12.5 sec and my bike is considered one of the slowest accelerating bikes made and a stock, unmodified Hayabusa will turn sub 10 sec quarters all day every day and compare that to a $440K Porsche Carrera GT @ 11.4 sec

If you ask anyone who has ridden any length of time, they will tell you the greatest risk out there on the road are the inattentive, cell phone talking, starbucks drinking, children distracted, lazy sloppy automobile drivers (don't be surprised but you might be one of them)

The point is folks, that bikes are no different than any other form of transportation: safety is mostly in the hands of the operator...well trained, unimpaired drivers can be just as safe in a car as they can be on a bike.


One final comment: Look twice when turning/merging/entering/exiting...bikes are everywhere...yes the rider should see you (and they probably do) but they can't read your mind and can do NOTHING if you pull out 10 feet in front of them.

BTW, all of these statistics can be gotten from 2 major studies: The Hurt Report (done by Dr Hurt) in the mid 1970's (this led to all the helmet laws around the country) and the MAIDS report (from the UK) from the late 90's early 00's.

[Redfallon]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 Look twice when turning/merging/entering/exiting...bikes are everywhere

I'm with Boss. The majority of motorcycle accidents are not the result of inexperienced riders speeding down the highway weaving between cars. The typical "I didn't see him" is much more common from the cagers (car/truck/suv driver). Blaming the biker just doesn't jive with the evidence/statistics.

[mbossman2]

while I am on my high horse, lets take a look at some of the HURT report findings:

- Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most often a passenger automobile. (the remaining 25% are single vehicle crashes)

- Of those 75% of multiple vehicle accidents, 2/3's of those accidents were caused by the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident (which equals car driver's fault)

Additionally: The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision. (read that as: keep your eyes open and on the road and other hazards not on the phone, the radio, the kids, the newspaper etc and if your view is obstructed BE EVEN MORE CAREFUL...if you can't see them, they sure as heck can't see you see conclusion #12 : The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.)

- The median speed of motorcycle accidents is 21.5 mph (even shaving a a bit more speed can save lives), less and .1% of crashes involve the speeds of 86mph

- The use of heavy boots, jacket, gloves, etc., is effective in preventing or reducing abrasions and lacerations, which are frequent but rarely severe injuries.

as to stryker's comment about t-bone accidents: they happen quite often:

Originally Posted by Hurt Report The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.

there are more conclusions feel free to read them here:

http://www.magpie.com/nycmoto/hurt.html

[Stryker]

My point was this:
The video shows a perfectly perpendicular impact to the car. Are you telling me that if you saw a car out of the corner of your eye approaching, you wouldn't turn the bars to try and avoid it but rather you would gun for the head on impact? Even a difference of a couple of degrees would cause the rider to be projected at an angle to the airbag, past the indented point where the rider hits on a straight impact.

By no means am I attacking bikers. I think bikes are fantastic and would have one myself if I could convince my wife. I'm saying I don't think the airbag would be nearly as effective if it was deployed in a "less-than-perfect" situation.

[David M]

I always thought the air-bag was the passenger?

Nothing is perfect, if it may save a life in a direct head on collision then why not?

[mbossman2]

Originally Posted by Stryker My point was this: The video shows a perfectly perpendicular impact to the car. Are you telling me that if you saw a car out of the corner of your eye approaching, you wouldn't turn the bars to try and avoid it but rather you would gun for the head on impact? Even a difference of a couple of degrees would cause the rider to be projected at an angle to the airbag, past the indented point where the rider hits on a straight impact.

this is new technology so all variations of a theme can not be tested, but in response to your question (What would I do?): I probably would try to swerve behind the car, but that is only after reflection...in the heat of the moment with less than half a second to respond an "Oh fecal matter" would come to mind and then the world's fastest and most fervent prayer and BANG...

anyway you cut it: a few MPH slower can mean the difference between life and death and anything that improve the odds is a good thing. I have heard about guys who have fallen off their bikes while moving them around the parking lot and gotten killed and seen guys go down at 60+ and pop up unhurt (the key is to not hit a solid object as is good gear)

Originally Posted by Stryker By no means am I attacking bikers. I think bikes are fantastic and would have one myself if I could convince my wife. I'm saying I don't think the airbag would be nearly as effective if it was deployed in a "less-than-perfect" situation.

talk your wife into allowing you to take a motrocycle training course (http://www.ridertraining.org/) and have her come with you (heck have her take the course too) and THEN see what she says and if she says no, then no it is but the decision is made based upon knowledge not here-say

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 this is new technology so all variations of a theme can not be tested, but in response to your question (What would I do?): I probably would try to swerve behind the car, but that is only after reflection...in the heat of the moment with less than half a second to respond an "Oh fecal matter" would come to mind and then the world's fastest and most fervent prayer and BANG... anyway you cut it: a few MPH slower can mean the difference from life and death and anything that improve the odds is a good thing.

Don't get me wrong... I think it's a great advancement in bike safety. If it saves even one person from injury or death, it's worth while. Just discussing the different situations that could occur, and hopefully this is something they look into because it could make a good idea great.

Originally Posted by mbossman2 talk your wife into allowing you to take a motrocycle training course (http://www.ridertraining.org/) and have her come with you (heck have her take the course too) and THEN see what she says

If only it were that easy my friend. I've been trying for years, but she is of the opinion that bikes are death traps and wants nothing to do with them. It's frustrating, but I guess she is afraid of it because she doesn't understand it or hasn't been exposed to it much. Her uncle drives a nice big Honda cruising bike and she won't even go for a ride on the back to try it out.

Oh well, if you need me I'll be in my Mazda hatchback.

[mbossman2]

now I am not saying that accidents aren't bad:


(my guess is this guy didn't walk away)

and they do happen often (see the inventory of Crashed Toys)

it is just that as a rider you accept these possibilities and do what you have to do to minimize them and any technology that helps, is definitely on my Christmas list!

[David M]

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation has a great course. I took it.
http://www.msf-usa.org/

Here are same safety tips on their website. This applies to safty tips for automobile drivers. It only takes a few minutes to read them.
http://www.msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm...gename=Library

[mbossman2]

i have taken both the BRC and the ERC...and I HIGHLY recommend them for ALL riders...I was in a BRC class with a guy who had ridden for 20 years and he left commenting that this was the best thing he had ever done with his riding...

I personally think that you shouldn't be able to GET a license without taking this (or the equivalent) type of training.

for giggles (and a realstic look at the decisions made while riding), take the Motorcycle Challenge:
http://www.msf-usa.org/MotorcycleChallenge/index.html


Stryker:

Just a guess but your wife may be intimidated by the size of the bikes she has been exposed to...take her to a dealer and look at the small bikes (250-500's) they are like bicycles with engines...also look at scooters...it will be a nice little project...

I could also be full of it, cause when I told my wife I rode, she darn near jumped thru the ceiling she was so happy...and then she told me to go take the course and then she would get on the back with me.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 Just a guess but your wife may be intimidated by the size of the bikes she has been exposed to...take her to a dealer and look at the small bikes (250-500's) they are like bicycles with engines...also look at scooters...it will be a nice little project...

I think the main reason for the fear is she likes the feeling of having the car "surrounding" her on the road. She doesn't like the idea of being out in the open when driving. She feels safer when inside the car, which I guess is understadable. I think it's also mainly the other drivers on the road that scare her, because she is perfectly happy to put around on a dirt-bike on her own terms.

Originally Posted by mbossman2 I could also be full of it, cause when I told my wife I rode, she darn near jumped thru the ceiling she was so happy...and then she told me to go take the course and then she would get on the back with me.

Lucky "so-and-so"!

[mbossman2]

Originally Posted by Stryker I think the main reason for the fear is she likes the feeling of having the car "surrounding" her on the road. She doesn't like the idea of being out in the open when driving. She feels safer when inside the car, which I guess is understadable. I think it's also mainly the other drivers on the road that scare her, because she is perfectly happy to put around on a dirt-bike on her own terms.

oh heck that is easy: get her out on the back country roads and *promise* no city driving...

Originally Posted by Stryker Lucky "so-and-so"!

nyah nyah

[David M]

Moose,
Thats funny because my wife had a similar reaction , she insisted that I take the MSF class or no dice. So I took the course to please her and because I knew I could use it.

They actually did flunk a few people who never seemed to have enough control of their motorcycle and were not able to do what was required with their bikes. (you are given a small cc bike to take the course on.)

[mbossman2]

i have taken both the "old" and "new" course...the old course was "if you can't cut it or I think you shouldn't be on a bike, you flunk", the new course is a "touchy, feely" class and everybody (except the real morons) pass...so the old course had a lot lower pass rate and (IMHO) turned out better riders.

I have been reading up on the UK bike learning technique and I really like it: start out on a smaller bike and have it clearly marked as a beginner bike, and then as you progress (time, experience, training and testing) you can move up to the larger bikes as your skills improve...so you don't have an 18 year old hot head jumping on a Hayabusa or GXR or a ZXas his 1st bike and zooming down the road on a bike whose power, frankly, scares the hell out of me which he can barely control and slams into a bridge abuttment or the back of an SUV.