Suspended for Speaking Spanish ? ?

[rspassey]

http://www.kansascitykansan.com/arti...ocal/news4.txt

I don't know if you guys have read this, but I was really shocked that he got suspended for speaking spanish in the hallway - something kids at my school (and myself) do daily. I go to an american school in Argentina, but if the same rules applied there would be VERY few students who would qualify for not getting suspended. I don't want to start some political brawl, just thought some of you might be interested in read it if you haven't already.

[TwoRails]

That is utterly ridiculous! What the heck is the logic behind that? They teach Spanish there, but you can't speak it? What if it was homework related? How stupid!

[blue60007]

Wow...that's just sad. Next thing you know people will be getting arrested on the streets for not speaking English...great.

[colecifer]

This is all basically the fault of the principal, she obviously is discriminating against spanish speakers. I don't know what her motivation is but even if she has good intentions its still an inappropiate thing to do. If enough people at turner find out about this, and i'm assuming they will if it made the paper i don't see that principal lasting that long.

[catacon]

That's just stupid. Half my school would be suspended if that applied here.

[Force Flow]

Hmm...I know of a few schools in my area that would have dismissed the teacher after a short investigation.

[kstatefan40]

Welcome to the politics in public schooling. That kind of crap is something that would happen here - they'd suspend some regular person for a week, but you can't suspend anyone who actually causes problems because they have some sort of self-imposed learning disability.

I'm betting there will be a major lawsuit, and I'm betting the kid will have an easy victory after the years of court delays and appeals. You'll be hearing about this for a LONG time.

[piasabird]

Everyone that goes to school should speak spanish for one day to really test the system. Call it a Spanish Sit In. Call Local TV News First. Then the parents can come pick you up and refuse to speak english. If enough people revolt they will change the rules.

[raftero]

common sense is not a requirement for teaching school, however, i raised 6 kids and while they very seldom lied about such things as this they sometime left out a few details that might have been revelent to the situation, and i have found that news reports do the same, so i generally took the teachers side until i found out the full story,it's possible there may have been a detail or two left out of this story.

[piasabird]

Now if they were cursing in spanish or just speaking badly to non spanish students or teachers that could be a good reason to start the policy.

[David M]

Originally Posted by raftero common sense is not a requirement for teaching school, however, i raised 6 kids and while they very seldom lied about such things as this they sometime left out a few details that might have been revelent to the situation, and i have found that news reports do the same, so i generally took the teachers side until i found out the full story,it's possible there may have been a detail or two left out of this story.

That's pretty common tactic employed by journalists. Leave out a relevant detail or two to sell the story so that everyone goes "thats outrageous!". Stories that make people yawn don't sell advertising. I'm not saying the story is not true, it's just that you have to take stuff like this with a grain of salt. It is easy to forget that the real business of the media is to sell advertising.

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by piasabird Now if they were cursing in spanish or just speaking badly to non spanish students or teachers that could be a good reason to start the policy.

I don't know about that either (refering to cursing), I mean I admit it, I use the full english language and a wide variety of curse words when appropriate (same when I speak spanish) even within my classes, and I don't get into any trouble. There are WAY bigger issues (ex : cheating, drug dealing, stealing exams, getting high on school trips - some of the stuff at my school which seems to go unpunished). So they leave the "good" kids like myself to have a little freedom... I don't agree or disagree with how it works, but I mean sometimes rediculous stuff happens (like getting suspended for speaking spanish in the hall way). What I do see as something which shouldn't be allowed - or constitute some punishment, would be for example an english class in which the teacher tells the spanish speaking kids "not here, not in my class" and they continue to speak it...

[piasabird]

I work at a Community College and I also went to school here and if an instructor does not want cursing to occur the person will be told to stop doing what they are doing or to leave. Good people dont put up with cursing. Only the ignorant weak mind needs to use curse words.

Let your nay be nay and your yay be yay.

If people do not need to use curse words in a Forum, then there is not reason to use curse words in normal speech. It is just a matter of self-discipline. No public school has to put up with cursing, nor should they tolerate it in the hallway or in the classroom.

I took Italian for 2 years in Italy where I went to high school. It was an English Speaking School and we did not have all these hangups about speaking 2 languages. I mean there were some people who spoke Italian, English and sometimes other languages. It was Europe and it was in Rome so there are a lot of International people there. A lot of the teachers were from England, and some were from other countries like the Netherlands, The USA, and Italy itself. While I was there one Semester the Italian Teacher took off for the entire semester to write a book on Leaning Italian. I loved this lady's class, because after about 2 weeks in class we all had to speak Italian even when we asked a question. If we did not know a word, she taught us to say "How do you say in Italian?" That is the only way to learn. If you dont actually speak a language you dont learn it!

In the USA we have a lot of hangups about speaking Spanish. People fear people that do not speak english. Also if you are running a school for English speaking students, it is not too absurd to ask everyone to speak English. I think it is a going a little too far to expel people for speaking spanish in the hallway, but I tend to be fairly tolerant of other people's cultures.

Italian people would sometimes talk in italian around Americans in Italy where I lived and would say derrogatory remarks about us thinking we did not understand them. I would just keep it to myself that I understood what they were saying. It is like reading a person's mind if they think you do not understand what they are saying. I know what really goes on in other people's minds. People are not so naive as you make them out to be.

[Markoman01027]

A violation of your civil rights - I smell a law suit coming.

[mbossman2]

this is just an extension of the "zero tolerance" mindset that is sweeping thru public schools....this mindset removes the requirement that each case is dealt with as separate and distinct situation (which increases workload) and allows the easier path of the rubber stamp. this mindset (aka laziness) is pernicious and it spreads so easily and so quickly that it begins to pop up in other, less severe, areas that require punishment...

[piasabird]

They suspend this person for just talking in the hallway and then let some thug stay in school that is harrassing students for their lunch money. I can think of lots of things that are worse than speaking in Spanish in a hallway. Where is the NAACP?

[HAL9000]

Is it really as stupid as it sounds? Are you hearing both sides of the story? Lets take things to the extremes.... lets take a school where say there are serious gang problems (could be this school for all you know) and lets say these gangs like to speak the foreign language to discuss details of who they're gonna beat the crap out of that day whether it be student or teacher. You are the teacher, you KNOW this is going on, but don't understand the language.... now you're getting dirty looks from one of the gangs and they're always speaking a foreign language around you..... think about it that way and from a teachers point of view, is it so ridiculous now?

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 Is it really as stupid as it sounds? Are you hearing both sides of the story? Lets take things to the extremes.... lets take a school where say there are serious gang problems (could be this school for all you know) and lets say these gangs like to speak the foreign language to discuss details of who they're gonna beat the crap out of that day whether it be student or teacher. You are the teacher, you KNOW this is going on, but don't understand the language.... now you're getting dirty looks from one of the gangs and they're always speaking a foreign language around you..... think about it that way and from a teachers point of view, is it so ridiculous now?

Yes, I do think it is really stupid as it sounds. I dont agree with your illustration, because the only way you can prove that they are talking about committing crimes is by actually hearing the conversation and understanding the language...Basically what you are trying to imply is that we should remove their first amendment right simply because we dont want gang members talking in a different language, and that right there is just plain ole stupid.

[Alfie]

After reading the article,I don't see speaking Spanish as the problem,but rather disobeying the teacher's request.
If a student is asked not to do something,regardless of what it may be,and proceeds to do the same thing,is warned again and continues to do it,suspension for the day may be in order.

[Nuclear Krusader]

I couldn't agree more.

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by Alfie After reading the article,I don't see speaking Spanish as the problem,but rather disobeying the teacher's request. If a student is asked not to do something,regardless of what it may be,and proceeds to do the same thing,is warned again and continues to do it,suspension for the day may be in order.

So if you are told not to speak Spanish, are you going to follow that request? There is a big difference between following orders/school policy and violating civil rights.

I for one thing will never allow anybody to tell me that I cannot speak my primary language.

[HAL9000]

OK fine, but is this a civil rights issue, or one of respect... within the school, you were asked to comply to a rule and refused... if you want to make a civil rights issue out of it, you don't just break the rules to get your way, you follow appropriate courses of action.

[rspassey]

What I would kinda want to know was what if he was in the same school and instead of speaking spanish at that moment, a teacher overheard him speaking french (lets say he and one other kids both speak french) what would have the teacher and school done? I don't want to make accusations, but there are a lot of cases of discrimination against spanish speaking people within the United States. I lived there, and I saw it... people making jokes about non-american construction works..etc. Like I said, I don't want to say that the school is against people with spanish culture and who speak spanish. What we get at my school is our english teacher really doesn't care if spanish is spoken in her class; just as long as it doesn't interupt when she is lecturing; and within a class room it is completely different than in the hallways.

[piasabird]

Some people would say children have no civil rights. Teachers are in fact your de-facto legal guardians while you are at school. You either obey them or your parents have to come pick you up.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by Markoman01027 So if you are told not to speak Spanish, are you going to follow that request? There is a big difference between following orders/school policy and violating civil rights. I for one thing will never allow anybody to tell me that I cannot speak my primary language.

Yes, if I'm told to I'll have to comply whether I like it or not. That's basic discipline, which is the foundation of schooling and of society itself.

If you don't like a school's policy, leave. If you can't leave or don't want to, obey. It's that simple.

English isn't also my primary language, and you can ask HAL how many times he's heard me speaking in Castilian, even to people who speak it as a primary language. I speak to everyone in English, because that's the official language of this country. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

[HAL9000]

Whick is kinda my point here... the story is really one sided and opinions are being developed without knowing the entire story... I Think there are a LOT of variables in this situation.

And yes,,, I have RARELY heard Nuke speak spanish. I think I have once or twice when a customer who was having problems understanding my English, he stepped in to translate as a courtesy. As such, his English has come a VERY long way from when we first met.

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader Yes, if I'm told to I'll have to comply whether I like it or not. That's basic discipline, which is the foundation of schooling and of society itself. If you don't like a school's policy, leave. If you can't leave or don't want to, obey. It's that simple. English isn't also my primary language, and you can ask HAL how many times he's heard me speaking in Castilian, even to people who speak it as a primary language. I speak to everyone in English, because that's the official language of this country. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

English is not the official language of this country. If it was the official language of this country, then everybody who speaks another language would be breaking the rules and possibly getting punished for it if it were a law. It would be very hard to make English the primary language and make it a rule that you HAVE to speak English, because America is known as the melting pot, and it is made up of many cultures and different languages. You might as well throw the first amendment away if you are going to make it a rule that you have to speak the official language.

HAL, I believe this issue is both civil and respect. Yes, it is out of respect to follow rules, but even if they are taking away your Civil Rights? How would you feel if I took away your civil rights simply because you had to follow a rule that I ordered? A rule that In my believe is unconstitutional. There are some rules that you follow, and there are some rules that you have to challenge because they are taking something away from you, and that is your civil rights, and that is what this country is built upon. You fight for what you believe in, no matter what the consequences are.

[HAL9000]

But as I said.. you only know ONE side of the story... the teacher obiously had a reason for making this request... until you know that side of the story, how can you side with one person.

You're looking at law enforcement... lets use a one sided story.... a witness says that I have shot and killed somebody... I am caught with the matching weapon... so I am a murderer right?... I should be jailed for life right?

Using the spanish story is saying you can do this... accuse on one side of the story... do we see a problem here?

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 But as I said.. you only know ONE side of the story... the teacher obiously had a reason for making this request... until you know that side of the story, how can you side with one person. You're looking at law enforcement... lets use a one sided story.... a witness says that I have shot and killed somebody... I am caught with the matching weapon... so I am a murderer right?... I should be jailed for life right? Using the spanish story is saying you can do this... accuse on one side of the story... do we see a problem here?

Are we ever going to know the other side of the story? If not, then I dont see the point of arguing anymore. I am a skeptic, so I dont think I would believe something like that, HAL not without proper evidence.

[HAL9000]

Well that's my point.. everyone here is accepting one party as guilty with only evidence from ONE side.