why so many foreign professors?

[mandugi23]

well, like half of my professor so far has been from another country. i'm not saying its bad but i'm just curious...

[EzyStvy]

What country are You in?

[Stuey]

I've also encountered faculty that are not native-born. Some of them attend graduate school in the US and then develop careers here while others immigrate here mid-career.

For highly educated and experienced persons, professorship positions are attractive career options. Also, I suppose that there is greater drive to higher education for foreigners than American citizens. (Not sure if you're talkin about U.S. or some other country so I'm basing my comments on my own observances.) In a lot of graduate programs, there are more foreign students than natively born students, possibly proportional to the groups' respective demand for certain programs.

This is all my personal speculation, of course, I'm open to suggestions.

[mandugi23]

U.s.a.

[mbossman2]

i think it depends upon the discipline...way back in the 80's (when I went to college), you had strong foreign representation in physics, math, engineering and to a lesser extent, chemistry and biology, mainly orientals (both professors and TA's). In the social sciences and humanities it was mainly "americans".

while I have no issue with WHO the teacher is or from WHERE the teacher comes, I do have an issue if their ability to communicate is inhibited by an indecipherable accent. some of the concepts are difficult enough to understand and then when you compound it with a language barrier you have a real issue.

I personally think that the reason for this is the way we educate out children. In the USA we don't really place a really strong emphasis on science and mathematics, but rather on a more generalized education, specialization takes place when a student goes to college. Whereas in many foreign countries (my buddy taught in Japan in the 80's and this is his take), they teach with a strong emphasis on science and mathematics and they also teach via a rote method: memorize, memorize, memorize and if it isn't on the various mandatory/standardized tests, the students are generally not interested.

In addition, with Americans you get a wide range of students with various levels of preperation (some good, some bad...remember everybody should go to college here), whereas with overseas students, the majority of the students sent here are the very best that their home nation produces...

Each method has its strenghs and weaknesses: (and this is a generalization) - Americans and those taught the "american" way, are generally more creative and are capable of finding new and innovative solutions to problems and issues but struggle to refine and optimize, whereas those taught under the other method tend to be able to refine and optimize existing processes, but struggle with the creativity component

[Statica]

Originally Posted by mandugi23 well, like half of my professor so far has been from another country. i'm not saying its bad but i'm just curious...

Short answer .. because they are qualified enough to teach the subject. Consider yourself lucky to be educated in an environment that has teachers who are there based on their ability and not based on their ethnicity.

[doctorgonzo]

As mbossman pointed out, the foreign professors you have are probably in the "hard science and math" categories. They are here because there is a huge shortage of Americans who are seeking PhDs in math, science, physics, and so on. Those foreign students with the most promise come to this country where they are wanted for research and where they can have access to the latest in equipment (although the latter point is becoming less of an issue; I just read that China is spending ten times as much on higher education today as they were ten years ago, so the gap is certainly narrowing between the U.S. and China when it comes to the quality of higher education).

My degree was in Political Science, and I don't remember having any foreign professors.

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by Statica Short answer .. because they are qualified enough to teach the subject. Consider yourself lucky to be educated in an environment that has teachers who are there based on their ability and not based on their ethnicity.

I have only one problem with that... I had a lot of ethnic profs, but in one CS lab class, the guy couldn't speak a clear sentence of English if his life depended on it.

[Statica]

They're taking the effort to learn a language that is foreign to them and to express a subject that they are well versed in .. (and I've had similar communication gaps with profs and TAs) all I've done was to make an effort to try to understand them. Then again I've had profs who spoke pristine English that couldn't communicate their subject to their students, either - again they were quite well versed in the subject.
Living in whatever country that we do, we tend to generalize too much about other societies and cultures and try to explain them all off with broad strokes. I would still hold on to the belief that I was taught by a person who perhaps came from a different country, because the person was qualified to teach me.

I live in an era where we tend to view ourselves more globally than ever before, till we all learn to speak in Hex or evolve telepathic communication, these are issues that we have to take into stride.

[bailey]

they will work for a lower wage too.

[Statica]

No they wont. Institutions, at least the good ones, dont offer less money to have someone from some other country teach.

[mbossman2]

Originally Posted by bailey they will work for a lower wage too.

finances are an issue...just not the way you are thinking.

Americans tend not to go the whole PhD route and stay in academia, big business tends to pull them away with much higher salaries and options...

The overseas PhD's tend to stay in academia as their "home" country's "big business" can't match what they would make at an American University and there are plenty of qualified American job candidates would don't have the communication/cultural/immigration barriers that get in the way of the overseas candidates.

oh, and remember, most of the University porfessor types work for government run Universities and they have job grades and pay scales that are blind to the origin of the professor...

[Litespeed]

Originally Posted by bailey they will work for a lower wage too.

Man, if that could be proven, any labor and employment section in any law firm would have a field day with that situation. That is discrimination any way you look at it. If a University was paying less for a professor due to his ethnic back ground they would be in some serious trouble, even if it was a matter of willingness.


mbossman is right. And this is coming from some one that has their Ph.D. in chemistry. Just look at how much it cost to get a master's level education in science in 93% of the major universities in the U.S.; it is free. Why? To encourage people to get their masters or Ph.D. in science. Why don't people want to? The pay stinks in the majority of the lab and university settings.

I would much rather take my degree and work for some large Pharm. company and make the big bucks, but I would not enjoy that kind of work. I was the minority as far as American students that got an education at the masters level of science at my university. It was not a matter of grades or study habits or any of those aspects. Americans don't want to study that hard for a Ph.D. and get those kinds of salaries. And let me follow by saying that does not mean Americans don't want to study, nor have the brains. All of my friends are from America and are highly educated and had a lot of determination and hard work to obtain their degrees. I just don't have alot of friends that have their master's or Ph.D. in science or such related field. Alot of it has to do with job market, or in reality every thing has to do with jobs and money.

Man I should have been a famous movie star with my pretty looks and all.

[piasabird]

All teaching positions at the college level are by contract. Each person negotiates their own deal. i.e. Supply and demand. Even at the community college we had a survey of similar institutions to see what they were paying. You have to pay people enough so they will not leave but not be overpayed. Otherwise they will find a higher paying job. I have seen some teachers move to the middle east or some other place simply because it paid more.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 I have only one problem with that... I had a lot of ethnic profs, but in one CS lab class, the guy couldn't speak a clear sentence of English if his life depended on it.

I wholeheartedly agree. Talk about the lab instructor in my last biology class; she had so horrible an accent I could barely understand or make out 4 words out of 10 she spoke. Not only that, she was jolly inefficient too: whenever I asked her a question about one of the questions in the lab manual she'd just re-read and re-read the question as if I were stupid and couldn't understand. I was tempted to tell her many times, "hey, it's YOU who has a problem with English, NOT me! I understand the grammar and the language, what I don't understand is which details I should look for, et cetera."

I don't give a whit if such and that professors are super bright and have a PhD from Oxford; if they can't communicate in English then they SHOULDN'T be teaching in an English-speaking country.

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Krusader I don't give a whit if such and that professors are super bright and have a PhD from Oxford; if they can't communicate in English then they SHOULDN'T be teaching in an English-speaking country.

What if there was student in your class with a heavy accent and the teacher couldn't understand him. Would your suggestion be that he shouldn't go to school in and English speaking country becuase he can't communicate in English? I don't want to get into an arguement, but let me say that no matter how well someone can converse in a language - the fact that you even have the oppertunity to learn from someone of such intelligence and training is much much more valuable. I am one to know what it is like having teachers in which they have trouble communicating in English, but I at the same time have trouble communicating in Spanish and even more in French when I was learning that. Going to an international as school, I am around kids all day who don't speak english perfectly, and who have troubles with pronuciation - yet I am the same way with another language. And I am around teachers all day who are from all over the world (USA, Canada, Argentina, Brasil) - I have had my issues understanding their english some time - they have had issues understanding my english some time - yet they are also very very good teachers who have taught me a lot (one of the things I have developed is a tolerance and acceptance of other cultures, languages, and beliefs). It isn't their fault that they learned English and speak with an accent, at least you get to benefit from their experience. [/rant]

Moving on to the topic... What does it matter if your teachers aren't from your Country - it is their qualification that matters - and has nothing to do with working for less money.

[kosova]

What if there was student in your class with a heavy accent and the teacher couldn't understand him. Would your suggestion be that he shouldn't go to school in and English speaking country becuase he can't communicate in English?

NO, when i arrived in america, the principal wanted to "demote" me because he believed because of my english I should be held back. I proved him wrong. You guys are worrying about foreigners taking teaching positions or Chinese getting smarter, just think, some day I'll take some American's job ...I'm an American myself now. I think the reason why a lot of foreigner teachers get accept at such jobs is because they are willing to travel half around the globe for a job, when was the last time you did that? This basically shows comittment, loyalty, and willingness, which a lot of teachers here don't have.

[Force Flow]

The problem is that professors are paid to do a job, and because of a language barrier, then cannot always fullfill what they were hired to do.

As a student there's not much you can do about it...believe me. I tried once upon a time.

The most you can do is take a class from another professor or transfer out.

Personally, I have no problem with foreign professors so long as they understand the material and can teach it reasonably well. If a heavy accent gets in the way...that may become a problem.

The thing is...it doesn't matter how intelligent they are or how much experience they have. For all intents and purposes, if that knowledge cannot be passed on via a form of understandable communication, then it could be considered somewhat useless.

For example, if the CEO of a Japanese company came up to you and started rattling off a long string of words in Japanese, that would be meaningless for people who don't know the language. However, for people who are familiar with that form of communication, it could be a goldmine of information about product designs or whatnot.

[Stuey]

Kosova, foreign-born professors are *usually* valuable assets to a higher education facility, BUT in the public school department, finding good teachers is horrifically difficult. In NYC, they have a huge problem finding good licensed teachers. I've heard so many bad things about foreign teachers having poor credentials. I've also heard and had some very talented foreign-born teachers.

In terms of possessing qualities better than citizen-born Americans, that's somewhat of a biased opinion. In my experience, it sort of evens out. I've had some horrible foreign teachers and professors and some great ones. I've also had some horrible USA-born teachers and professors and some excellent ones. Like I said, it usually evens out.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Originally Posted by ryan124712 What if there was student in your class with a heavy accent and the teacher couldn't understand him. Would your suggestion be that he shouldn't go to school in and English speaking country becuase he can't communicate in English?

Yes. As a matter of fact, that's why the schools in English speaking countries demand a certain TOEFL score or any other means to prove that the student will be able to communicate in English and profit from the education he's intending to receive. If he can't, well, there are ESL courses he can take prior to his attendance to university. I've seen many students who struggle big time with the language and they fall behind in classes, are always paying other people to write their papers, do horrible in the tests, can't clear their doubts because they can't ask properly, and the list goes on and on. In most cases is not a problem of handicappedness but one of attitude. I've seen way too far Chinese students who won't speak English no matter what. They barely manage to communicate in the most basic level and prefer to spend most of their time speaking in Mandarin. Now that's a wonderful way to learn a second language: refusing to drop your first.

I am sticking to my guns on this one. If you don't know the language, learn it first, polish it, and then go to school either to learn or teach. I did it, why can't anyone else?

[piasabird]

I think it is a lie that there are no qualified americans to take a job with a PHD. I think the problem is that really well educated Americans are making a lot of money in the private sector and are not interested in teaching.

If you want to complain go to the deans office or the president of the institution you work for. I would rather hire unqualified american speaking people rather than foreigners who can not be understood. Nothing wrong with professors from another country as long as they can be understood in the language they are paid to teach in.

Heavy accents do not bother me that much. If I can put up with a New York or Jersey or Phillie accent, then I can put up with an awful lot. There are people in northern Italy than can barely understand people from southern Italy. It is like a completely different language.

If you are paying say $1,000.00 for a course and the instructor cant speak English, then demand your money back.

[Jaggannath]

My engineering school was made up of about 50% foreign lecturers... only one guy we could understand, and he was awful at his subject to boot. Ask him any question outside the notes and he'd write random things on the board and then ignore you. My class honestly understood less than 10% of what he "taught", but that's life, in that subject we taught ourselves

[Nuclear Krusader]

And there's more to it, in here at least. Many of the professors are actually doing research, but by the rules they have to have a determinate amount of hours before a class; so, many of them are no teachers. They can't teach to save their lives, they are hardly ever available and when they do they don't help you much, all they say, "check the text book if you're having problems." Great, that's why I am asking YOU, you idiot.

Nowadays, there are many instructors, but only very few teachers.

[Force Flow]

It's interesting to note that most professors do not have a degree in teaching or teaching backgrounds.

Either way, if you've ever tought a class yourself, you'll find it's not as easy as you would think.

[Nuclear Krusader]

It isn't. Hence the need to demand that anyone wanting or needing to teach a class has a Masters Degree in Education. Heck, at least a 1-year diploma from a renowed University.

[Thurrdome]

Nuclear Krusader, I couldn't agree with you more on this one!

[Stuey]

It cannot always be blamed on the professor. Many foreign professors have different styles of teaching than what university underclassmen are used to. Upperclassmen are more exposed to a similar teaching style so they usually are more adapted.

When I took Calculus III, I dropped the course after the midterm. The professor who was visiting from Germany had put problems on the exam which could not be solved using the explicit methods we learned. Afterwards when we protested, he claimed that we shouldn't rely only on exact memorized methods. So a lot of us dropped the course and retook it at a later time. In retrospect, a lot of people who dropped the course for only this reason are losers. I dropped the course for other reasons but this was the point that convinced me.

Currently I am a graduate student at the same university. I am a discussion TA for Physics. I'm not going to go into details, but I've found that MANY students are uncomfortable unless they are spoon-fed everything. There are some students who are able to break free from this dependent attitude, but I've found that there are MANY others who either are unwilling or incapable of learning a single concept or equation on their own.

In college, many subjects are better learned if a student reads the material at home and allows the professor to fortify the idea in their mind. Instead, many students wait until the professor introduces a topic, and then the student carries a vague idea until the day before the exam when they relearn material, and in many cases learn new material (that they should already be well familiar with) from scratch.

[piasabird]

It is odd that some college professors actually expect the student to do the homework and students are expected to read the book they paid for. In the Computer field sometimes we did not even use a textbook and used slide shows and handouts because even a well written textbook in the computer field is out of date by the time it goes to print.

I had one instructor in Pre - College Algebra that was extremely good in his approach and there was this basic formula and he made everyone memorize it and repeat it on the first day of class. He had a slightly different approach to teaching but was very effective. He made math bareable for people like me who had not taken a math course since we graduated high school 20+ years ago.

He had a Arab/Middle Eastern accent but he was easily understandable after listening to him for a while. I see many students that are just lazy. They dont study they just show up to class not reading the book and expect to be spoon fed. Not all subjects work like that. There were some American Instructors that I did not care much for because of their simple simon approach to teaching. Most good instructors have to constantly updated their own knowledge with the latest trends in the field, but some people were just dinosaurs.

In college or a unversity part of each course is getting to know the instructor and learning which instructors not to schedule a class with, even if you have to take an evening class to avoid them. There are always instructors that are just difficult to deal with. Students just have to learn to deal with difficult situations. Real Life Jobs will be the same way, so my suggestion is to just get use to it.

I think some students want to just blame the instructor for their lack of studying.

[Jaggannath]

Some students can't reschedule to avoid a poor lecturer, as they're usually the only ones teaching that subject in Australia