Math

[Hi Ho]

There have been a few threads here about math lately. Now I have one. This is more of a rant though.

Math.... I hate it. I truely hate it. It is, by far, my worst subject. I simply am not wired to understand anything higher than basic algebra. I'd say it runs in my family as most of them aren't good at math either.

What really annoys me is the fact that it is a required class in high school. I am on the verge of not passing my current math class (the last one needed for graduation) and I am not sure if I am going to pull out of the hole I'm in.

Some people simply [i]aren't good at math![/url] Yet, it's a requirement all the way through college, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with my career. I have had all the extra help possible. I've stayed after school, I've had multiple teachers with multiple teaching strategies, I've tried everything. It's really hard to do something that I have absolutely zero interest in. Math literally shuts down my brain and makes me depressed. That is no exaggeration.

I know people that really love math and couldn't live without it. The school system seems to treat everyone as if they are like that.

All math does for me is pull my GPA down and there is absolutely no way around it.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Maybe you should stop whining and adopt a different attitude, for that is mostly your problem.

I am not good at math either, yet when I dropped my "I suck at this and I always will and I hate it with a passion" and changed it to "this can prove interesting" I came from a 12% in my first mid-term test to a final grade of 70% which was way above the average for the entire class of 100+ people. The more you keep telling to yourself how much you hate it, the more it's gonna drag you down.

[David M]

Amen Nuclear...I agree wholeheartedly. I have never had any affinity for math either. That though never kept me from learning it. Math though does become interesting when you can use it to solve real world problems. Grinding through equation after equation is incredibly boring..which is how math is taught. I have never used Calc2 and probably never will, but I do not see learning it as a waste of time because it does teach concepts based on pure logic. Math is pretty much the only subject where there is right and wrong...you are correct or you are not...there is no debating the issue. It is also cool knowing how scientists from hundreds of years ago predicted things like the orbits of the planets.

You are an audiophile right Hi Ho?....you can bet there is pleanty of mathematics in solving electronics formulas and designing electronics. Perhaps you may want to pick up a book on electronics and work on solving some of the problems? Wouldn't it be great to be able to calculate resistance, inductance, power, current and how they all interrelate in a sound system? How about frequency and how a changing the capacitance of a capacitor changes what frequencies it will filter out?...the same for an inductor. How about calculating how much resistance there is through a given length of wire? Learn how to calculate RMS power for an amplifier. This is all very usefull math and it applies directly to what you enjoy. I think you may learn to appreciate math better, and get better at math, if you relate it to something you already love doing.

Have you ever diagrammed a circuit? It's actually fun after you get the hang of it...and it does use algebra.

Try in your mind to accept it, not fight it. Use the Force, Luke.

[HAL9000]

Math teaches you one thing that can be applied throughout your entire life... while some things are hard and set, for other things, you MUST think outside the box to find the solution.

[Floppyman]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 Math teaches you one thing that can be applied throughout your entire life... while some things are hard and set, for other things, you MUST think outside the box to find the solution.

Absolutely. Being able to look at ideas and concepts quantitavely is a key skill that everyone must learn to their best of their ability in my opinion. Remember that at the core of almost any science and engineering discipline lies mathematics.

[mairving]

Most math is really just applied logic. It just happens to use numbers is all.

My minor is in Math, even made it through Linear Algebra. For the most part I don't use it day to day and have forgotten most of it. Still glad that I minored in it.

You do need to learn an acceptable level of math. Your education is not really about learning math or literature or anything else. Often times it is about learning those things that you don't like and having the discipline to do them.

[rspassey]

Though I do pretty good in math class, I too don't have that much interest in it. I find it odd that you have to do it every year, here we only have to make a total of 7 credits between Math and Science - and at the end of 10th grade I will have completed 5 of the seven, so at least you have the option to focus more on science or math depending on your strength and interests.

I think math would be a whole lot more enjoyable if the teachers actually told us how and when the concepts, formulas, etc.. will be applied in the real world. And if we did ACTUAL real world examples. Now we are doing things like compound interest where all we do is stuff like 50 dollars is compounded quaterly for 3 years, how much will it be. When we could instead do research, call different banks, gather information on different account types like CDs and Savings Accounts, and determine which plan would be the best.

I agree though, that if you think you CANT do it, then you WONT do it, if you think you CAN do it, then you WILL do it. Math is mental, if you don't want to learn it, then you simply won't learn it, but if you attempt (which I can tell you have by seeing other teachers and what not), then you at least have a chance at understanding it.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Math is at the core of EVERYTHING. Can I say that louder? It's everywhere, can't escape it. Saying "I will never need math in what I intend to do" is one of the greatest lies. From the moment you tell the time to the bloke on the bus who asks for it, to the solution of chemistry problems or managing of your bank account, you are using math.

Now, want applied math? Take physics. But if you haven't a reasonable graps of algebra, physics is gonna be hell.

[guruboy]

I wouldn't say Hi-Ho is whining, nuclear. either he's having the same problem in school as every high school student, or he's incredibly immature for his age and gives up too early (which I sincerely doubt.) No one loves every school subject, and some people have it badly because they're not great at subjects that are required and require you to GET it and CARE about it to pass the class. I also understand Hi Ho's reasoning for not believeing math will help him in his career (audio, am I right?) Sure you can spit all these strange reasons that math is needed in that field, or in an even more cosmic sense as many of you see it. To be perfectly honest, I don't see Hi Ho using any more than the basic algebra he says he can do in the field he seems very dead-set on. I see people mentioning how math is the core of everything. Think of it like this: what's the core of the physical world that makes up atoms to molecules to living things? On the most basic level it's physics (thermodynamics TBS.) But do biologists or chemists need thermodynamics concepts to do their jobs? I don't think so. I feel in the real world, having no more than basic skills in algebra won't kill you. And hey, if Hi Ho needs to learn a little more math for the field he really loves, he'll probably end up learning what he needs to know anyways.

A *few* years back when I was in high school (gosh has it been that long?) I was taking math classes 3 above my peers. I took College Level 1 Calculus in my Sophomore year, and went from there. That was because I was pretty darn good at math, and because I actually liked it. I'm a 3d animator now. Has calculus helped me? Not really. I say if Hi Ho hates math, let him let out the steam here rather than on himself, or another living thing.

[Hi Ho]

I'm not whining, I am not giving up. I have had a positive attitude throughout highschool. It has really been getting to me lately. The fact that a single class may cause me not to graduate on time really irritates me, especially since I have not failed a single class in high school and my grades are A's and B's except for math classes.

When I say I have not given up, I mean I have not given up. A concept can be drilled into my head for hours upon hours and I can actually start to get it but when I have to do it on my own I have to start all over. It's like a vicious cycle.

Of course the audio field uses some math and I will gladly learn it. When it is applied to an interesting subject, I have a much easier time learning it. It's the higher level superfluous stuff that is getting to me.

Guruboy, you hit it dead on.

[avx]

In my humble opinion, math breaks people down into 3 groups.
1. Those who are very good at math and enjoy doing it.
2. Those who take math, they have their problems in it, and dont particularly enjoy it, but they do it.
3. Those who just cant grasp it for the life of them.

I think I am in this 3rd catagory. When I try and learn math, I get headaches, numbers jumble together, I cant keep a formula structure in my head, its down right depressing.

I think it has something to do with how are brains form. Years of medical study has proven that some people think more with thier right side of their brains, and others with thier left. That is why many kids who are excellent readers and linguists, cant for the life of them do math(me for ex.). While other kids who were good at math, often have hard times writing essays or short stories. Its Logic vs. Creativity.

I dont think its fare that some of you would say that Hi Ho is just being lazy, or not trying hard enough...
What if, like me, he actually has a small learning disability? Based on everything I have ever heard about kids with learning diablilities, when I look at some math problems, I just cant understand it, unless it pounded into my head for hours on end, and even then, I will most likely forget it within a month...

[flawedreality5]

I guess I'm a 2.5 on that scale. I'm pretty good at algebra but I somehow have to make it to Calc 2 for the Computer Science major at my college. It's hard stuff. I just made a post about the Discrete Mathmatics course I'm taking now. We're 100 pages into the book and I've barely seen any numbers. This is what we're doing right now. I'm really considering going to a tutor for this stuff. It's way beyond my basic comprehension.

http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~krovetz/courses/ecs20_Su02/note3.pdf#search='proofs%20sets'

[Litespeed]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060215/...c/science_math

[guruboy]

Interesting article. Good find. I'm content with the amount of Math and Science in public schools, but I'd like to see more opportunity for those that wish to excel even further (while in High School, that is.)

[als814]

For me personally, I can't stand math; however, it does seem to come pretty naturally. I've had A's in every math class I've had, which has been pretty much everything except calc, and I put in very little effort outside of class. I flat out refuse to do the homework because I don't need to do 15 problems solving quadratic equations when I get it after 2 problems. The only problem with this strategy is that you have to put in more effort during class than you normally would, and if you do mess up on a test, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

The one thing that really helped me with the whole boring and not really applying to anything factor was that I would just complain about how useless it is until the teacher could get me to shut up by providing some sort of application. I also tend to argue over just about everything, especially when it seems stupid. I was someone's hero in class one day because I wasted 45 minutes of an 80 minute class arguing over a true and false problem (note: if you are in college, you probably don't want to waste everyone's time like this). While I did turn out to be wrong, in that 45 minutes I learned far more about the concept than I ever would have learned doing a bunch of problems.

And lastly, if you are allowed to use a graphing calculator, it makes a lot of things laughably easy. I can think of several tests in the past few years where I really had no idea how to do it the book way, so during the test I would make my own creative way of solving the problem. It isn't really something to rely on, but it is a pretty good life skill of learning how to figure things out for yourself.

[colecifer]

I love math its my favorite subject in school alongside science. I like math because all you have to do is learn the rules once you learn the rules you can do anything. I've been tutoring my friend in Algebra II lately because he has been struggling a lot and he gets real mad at me sometimes because if i've forgotten something from last year when i took it i can look at his teachers answer look at the problem and say oh i see and show him the work it went through.

Now a class i hate would have to be english. I understand it'll be useful and I even moved up to honors this year because the standard program at my school is rediculously easy, but i hate it most of the time even though my teacher is a pretty cool guy. I didn'y have any interest at the beginning of the year and had a 50% then a 65% then a 60% and then moved up to a 77% for the quarter. Second quarter i got like an 85% and ended with a B for the semester. So all i gotta say HiHo is stick with it because i am terrible with the english language sometimes and i can't interpret a short story/poem to save my life but its worked out.

EDIT:
Also just to try and up your interest, do you have any programming courses in your school? Programming is a lot like math and a lot of the programs we do rely on previously learned math skills. It has helped me out because you have to take everything down to a step by step process and it can really help your logic. If you can get it done to steps everyhing is easy. That said sometimes its harder to get down to steps then to do the problem.

[flawedreality5]

I hate programming as well. I got a C in visual basic in high school, a C- in java and now I'm taking java and C++ in college. Although I'm doing quite well in both for the moment. I just hope it doesn't make a jump in difficulty all of a sudden. But I could not do programming for a living. You make 1 simple character mistake or a logical error that the computer doesn't catch, and you could spend hours trying to find it. Your logic has to be on top of things for programming. Not my idea of a good time. Seems like a very stressful position, trying to meet deadlines and all. Boo that.

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by flawedreality5 I hate programming as well. I got a C in visual basic in high school, a C- in java and now I'm taking java and C++ in college. Although I'm doing quite well in both for the moment. I just hope it doesn't make a jump in difficulty all of a sudden. But I could not do programming for a living. You make 1 simple character mistake or a logical error that the computer doesn't catch, and you could spend hours trying to find it. Your logic has to be on top of things for programming. Not my idea of a good time. Seems like a very stressful position, trying to meet deadlines and all. Boo that.

Hehe, I am the complete oposite, I LOVE coding. So much fun working out projects. We just got assigned this puzzle maker to make the Sudoku things, it is a lot of code, but all once we (partner and I) figured it out, we were kicking ourselves on how easy things really are once you apply the knowledge you have learned.

[Hi Ho]

I have no interest in programming. It's best left to those who like doing it.

[colecifer]

Originally Posted by ryan124712 Hehe, I am the complete oposite, I LOVE coding. So much fun working out projects. We just got assigned this puzzle maker to make the Sudoku things, it is a lot of code, but all once we (partner and I) figured it out, we were kicking ourselves on how easy things really are once you apply the knowledge you have learned.

Just random generation of numbers and checking its not already in the matrix row or column?

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by colecifer Just random generation of numbers and checking its not already in the matrix row or column?

Plus randomly selecting 4 places per 3x3 box' before placing random #s within those. By then end you are checking against a possible 24 different individual squares for both the Square # and the value of the box... lots of code in the end for something pretty simple. Lots of Do Until Loops and LOTS of verification code not only to check which row/colum the digit you are checking belongs to, but to also make sure that every time it remains random.

Anyway, back to math... may I ask which class you are currently taking?

[SteelXVII]

Personally here I believe math isnt a very fun subject, but it is a very necessary one. Colleges look at your math and english level for entrance first. The higher your math the smarter they think you are haha...some people just copy. Another note I got stuck in a algebra essentials class for 3 years and now im in basic algebra senior year which is the freshman class LOL. Anyways my point being im getting at here is even though I was stuck in a low class and I got depressed I taught myself geometry, Algebra 2 and pre-calculus and now im learning calculus fullblown not including I done a crash course in trigonometry. From teaching those classes I now feel better and I am able to do just about anything that I want. Knowledge is power, and math is one of the great knowledge's.
p.s. Girls do better in math I think, from my sight girls are taking over AP courses and excelling more than boys. They can multi task like crazy...unfair! Boy's need to take over once more! (in a un-sexist way)

[kodmaster]

i got i think a 93 in math this semester and i didn't even do homework or study for exam...i walked into exam without looking over notes that i didn't even make and got 96 on it.....lol math comes easy to some people and others english comes easy....i got only like 77 in that.

[glc]

SteelXVII, please check your private messages. I have edited your signature.

- Admin -

[Dominion]

lol a techie forum is probably the worst place to pick to have a pop at maths. Lots of very biased left-hand brainers

However it is important for engineering and science subjects. You may have no interest in these subjects so your main problem is grade average. If your getting As and Bs no doubt your smart enough for this level of maths. It does sound like your getting to stressed out - attitude is everything when it comes to learning. Even if your trying hard, a negative attitude towards the subject will mean your easily distracted and prevent you soaking it all up.

Read this article for some light at the end of the tunnel - interesting view point

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/brain.html

And if all else fails get as many specimen exam papers as you can and forget about understanding. Just memorise - you should be able to identify recurring themes of what you really need to know to pass.

[als814]

Originally Posted by SteelXVII p.s. Girls do better in math I think, from my sight girls are taking over AP courses and excelling more than boys. They can multi task like crazy...unfair! Boy's need to take over once more! (in a un-sexist way)

I always thought statistically guys did better in Math and girls did better in Reading/Writing. At least that's what people always said about the SAT's.

[Markoman01027]

ANYBODY can do Math. Dont think "Not everybody is good at Math". You are not born with Math skills. You have reason. You CAN do Math. You acquire them through life. Math is just like learning another language. You get a teacher and practice daily.

Math is very beautiful, and the greatest subject to study in school . I hate it when people diss Mathematics simply because they dont understand it. It's your attitude that is making you not understand it.

Math is deductive(logically), and you have reason(Logic) and when you have reason, you have the necessary skills to do Math.

[Marbles]

Yea, math really sucks, i had to go to sumemrschool for it last year, and am currently failing, but hey gotta suck it up and get trough, it wont be too long now till im done with it.

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by Marbles Yea, math really sucks, i had to go to sumemrschool for it last year, and am currently failing, but hey gotta suck it up and get trough, it wont be too long now till im done with it.

Do you take the initiative to ask for extra help?

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by als814 I always thought statistically guys did better in Math and girls did better in Reading/Writing. At least that's what people always said about the SAT's.

I dont think the SAT's show true intelligence in any kind of way, or any kind of statistic. Somebody can be great at a subject, but totally bomb the exam/standardized test because he/she cannot communicate the material properly on the exam. Tests never show true understanding of the subject.