End of Certifications?

[faulkner132]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...06dtx1k0000599

Not to take anything away from certifications, but I've always thought them to be "fluff"... looks like employers are starting to do the same.

Practical experience is always the best teacher, in my humble opinion.

[MakeYourslf2012]

If they want someone really good - they should employ people who have taught this stuff.

You really know what you are talking about when you can teach it. Thats why most Supreme Court Justices were law professors before they were appointed.

[bailey]

I would agree with that to a point, certs alone will have very little pull, but to have the certs plus the experience will have more pull than the experience alone.
I believe that most IT's with a lot of experience will not normally go after the certs because they have already got what they need to do the job and have been doing it for some time, there fore they feel no need for the certs.

but you got to admit that experience with the certs will be more impressive to a employer looking at a new hire, wages are usually based on what one can do, if you can show the know how to do more, you will get paid more.

and one who has just the certs and no experience will still be at the entry level.
employers are noticing that some can get a cert with just brain storming for the test and still not be able to do the work required on sight.
so in a way that article would hold true, you really would have the most advantage if you had both, experience and the certs.

[Force Flow]

The only certifications that I've seen that are actually worth something are many of the Cisco certifications. They are tough, but you really know your stuff afterwards.

[rightcoast]

See the problem is braindumps. Seriously.

I have an MCSE working with me that I watched try to figure out to edit boot.ini. When I didn't use the ctrl-alt-delete method (he claimed he "should have remembered") and used edit boot.ini instead he said he hadn't seen the edit command before. :\

I also handed this same person our last two rj connectors and a patch cable to make a patch, and when I went back there 15 minutes later to see what the hold up was .... this guy had the sleeve stripped back about 7 inches or so, and I kid you not, had stripped every single little tp wire about two inches back. He was trying to "reopen the connector" at the point I walked back there. Seems that rj connectors have a hard time biting onto straight copper. :/

The list goes on. He asked how to find the IP address on a 98 machine, but at this point, I know how crazy I sound to people dying to get into these jobs. Anyone who works them can tell you about these guys though.

Not all employers are cert-blind. After the county let him go, he took a job at Disney. I know, it is amazing frankly.

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by rightcoast See the problem is braindumps. Seriously.

Very true. Not much really beats some pratical experience. Even if it's just messing around on your own PC.

[bailey]

that is totally beliveable, but I surly expected that you ment a lot more experience than that person showed.

heck, anyone with a A+ should have knowen more than that, but thats just my personal opinion.

patch cables and cable termination of 25 paire on the punch down connections was one of the first things we learned in school.

and then came the fiber optic termenations, now that was a blast.

[mbossman2]

Many of the "entry" level certifications can and are obtained with just book learning unless there is a lab component incorporated in the testing process and without experience a cert is worth just about the paper it's printed on

In my field the "king daddy" is the CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetworking Expert) - this has both a written exam AND a serious lab component (the whole testing process takes 2 days) and is considered one of the most difficult certs to get, but is also one of the most lucrative. back before the internet bust, CCIEs were able to command low and mid low six figure incomes (it is lower now but not by a ton)

[edfair]

I'm not sure that I would agree with Makeyourself that those who teach it would make good employees.
I developed and taught 3 courses for a technical school and some of the questions that the other instructors (teaching in the same technical field) asked left me wondering how the school could possibly keep them on the payroll. It was as if they quit learning as soon as they got their teaching certificate. I'm sure that there are technically competent instructors but being an instructor doesn't make them competent.
I also ran across this in a company provided educational class for technicians that had field experience. One instructor was totally clueless about how several machines worked and the proper diagnostic steps to fix them. The second instructor admitted that there was a good probablility that several students in the class knew more than he did about the machines he was teaching and actively requested any additional information we had. You can probably guess which one was more respected.

[bailey]

I have experienced that too.
I was in a trainning class on basic electronics sponsored by general motors at the wayne state university in michigan, there were 30 students in the class, there was several times I had to correct the instructor on some statements he had made, it did not take but a few days for the entire class and the instructor to see that I had a greater knowledge than the teacher did and they ended up all asking me questions.
the rest of the 6 month class, the instructor keep looking at me to see if what he was saying was correct or not, I just had to nod my head yes or no.
it was really funny to see that.

so, just because you can teach anything, does not mean that you know anything.