DSL??? yes or no

[Scotty]

I'm thinking about getting DSL. I have heard good and bad. Does the good out weigh the bad??? Also I have heard that it is more prone to hacking? Is Linux the way to go if I do get it? Sorry so many ?s. Thanx again! Scotty

[Jenni]

My brother has it, and he loves it. After seeing how fast it is, I wish I could get it. Not available where I live though. He downloads things that take me 2-3 HOURS in 2-3 MINUTES. He asks me about programs all the time, and I'll tell him "I burned you a copy of it"...he says, "hang on, I'll download it quicker than I can find the CD"---and he does!!

If I had it, I would download ZoneAlarm. He hasn't, says he doesn't care, he can always reinstall if necessary. But that's him and not me.

[DrZaius]

Hi Scotty,

I have DSL and could never go back to 56K. The speed and convience of not having to dial-up is great. It is only more prone to hacking if you have a static IP, because it can be used for trojans and such. But, if you have a dynamic IP (most DSL is) then it's the same as dial-up, the IP changes everytime you connect. Like Jenni mentioned, I would use ZoneAlarm for the extra security. So no, you won't need to go with Linux for security, you'll be fine with Windows and common sense. The best source for DSL information is at DSL Reports. Just look around the site and you'll find more than you need. Hope that helps.

[glc]

Jenni - tell your brother that without some kind of a firewall, his machine could be turned into a "zombie" participating in a Distributed Denial of Service attack on just about anything - and if traced back to him, he can lose his account. Not putting a FREE program on to prevent this kind of stuff is just plain stupid - and inconsiderate of others. He may not care about his machine, but he should care about others - and his account.

[Computer Hobbyist]

Our DSL went down the other day. (A problem my ISP had with its provider.) People were screaming at me to get back on line. We ended up putting a modem equipped computer (mine) on line as a proxy server. People were still screaming. I couldn't go back to a 56k line if I wanted. There would be an office rebellion. DSL is nearly indispensable for a small office that does any work on the web. glc is absolutely right, however, you have to have a good firewall up and running. You would be stunned at the number of people who try to probe your system. (Not only yours, but yours and millions of others.) A good firewall should protect your system from most of the under-employed idiots trying to prove their manhood.

CH

[Ozark1]

The biggest problem with dsl as compared to cable is that you have to be within a certain number of feet of a router for it to work properly. The farther from a router you are the poorer the performance. From a hacking point of view cable is easier than dsl, but you would be a fool if you did'nt run a firewall on either.

[Kubie]

Ozark1,
What they did here was run fibre optic cable to hubs through out the city. Even though I'm 27000 ft from the CO, I'm only 1500 ft from the hub. I have a very good connection and like others that have DSL, I'll never go back to dial-up. If something should happen to my DSL, I'll go wireless or cable.
Carl

[Jenni]

glc--I've told him that, but he doesn't care. He doesn't leave his computer on all night, and he signs off the internet when he's done doing whatever it is he doing, so at least his machine isn't running 24/7. He says ZA would make it harder to play games on the LAN.

[Computer Hobbyist]

I'm not a gamer, so pardon my foolish question, but how does a properly installed firewall adversly affect playing games?

CH

[audiyoda]

A properly installed firewall, software or hardware based will not effect gaming in the least. Xayd is our resident expert on this -- I'm sure his hours of playing UR: Tournament on-line double or triple GLC's number of posts.

As for DSL -- I'll never go back to 56K. DSL is quirky and there are bandwidth issues (not like those with cable), so I'd shop around and get your best bang for the buck. I've got Ameritech/SBC's package and don't have many problems. The only real problem I have with them is two fold: they cache their servers (making surfing appear faster than it really is) and the other e-mail accounts I've set up sometimes don't get e-mails for days and then get a few dozen at one time.

-Craig

[Xayd]

That's UT .

Yeah, I used to run Zone Alarm before getting a router and then a Linux box in front of my LAN, and there were no issues at all with anything I play. If there was a speed degrade, trust me, I wouldn't have run it. A ping time that used to be 75 to east coast servers for me has now become 95-110 due to routing issues with UUNet and telco, and I'm considering cancelling DSL from telco to get it again from another ISP because of that drop of 20-30 milliseconds. 60 is great, 80 is fine, 100 is playable, 110 and you're gonna miss sniper shots, that won't cut it. I won't tolerate a loss in speed, even if it means spending money to eliminate it. ZoneAlarm is doubly good there, does it's job and costs nothing, without a performance hit.

ZoneAlarm had no negative imact on my speed in games, I've recommended it to many people I play games with, and many of them run it as we speak. Trust me, your friend isn't as good at his games as some of the players I've helped set up, or myself included for that matter, and all of said players play through ZoneAlarm or Sygate or a router firewall or whatever .

Xayd

[troysvihl]

he can lose his account

Although I agree that you should run a firewall, I SERIOUSLY doubt that someone would loose their account because they didn't run a firewall.

[audiyoda]

It has happened to plenty of @home customers found to have zombies residing within their systems. Was a top story on Individual.com a month or so ago.

-Craig

[troysvihl]

So were they regranted access once they eliminated the zombies?

I just have a hard time believeing that a company in the hyper-competitive ISP market is going to stop taking cash from willing subscribes because a third party took advantage of them.

[Xayd]

Originally posted by troysvihl Although I agree that you should run a firewall, I SERIOUSLY doubt that someone would loose their account because they didn't run a firewall.

I truly wish it would happen to more of them. I don't care if your ISP doesn't have tech support, I don't care if you don't know what a firewall is, I don't care if you like opening mail attachments and accepting every DCC send that comes your way, and I don't care if you think you 'need' your net access.

If you don't secure your own computer, and end up being used in an attack on someone else, you deserve to be cut off from whatever broadband ISP gives you bandwidth until you deal with your issues.

Xayd

[troysvihl]

If you don't secure your own computer, and end up being used in an attack on someone else, you deserve to be cut off from whatever broadband ISP gives you bandwidth until you deal with your issues.

sorry xyad, but i have to respectfully disagree. i value your advice and don't wish to piss you off, but the way i see it, if you want something bad enough from the customer and the customer is ignorant, then you should provide it or else eat the cost yourself. if you want to stop all the hackers from messing with your site, then protect your own site and don't expect that others should step in and take measures to protect your site. (and when I say you should provide "it", I mean that the ISP provider or the website being attached should provide their own security, not that each individual user should take measures to protect every site)

if an ISP demands their customers to run a firewall and states so up front as a condition to the origianl ISP agreement, then yes, i agree that they should run a firewall. (the ISP providers may already do this, I don't know. if so, then yes, I agree with you that each customer should run a firewall to comply with the agreement. But my DSL provider has never said anythign about running one and I don't feel that I have any duty to do so.)



But if you just assume the average user knows what a firewall is and that they should run one, then don't complain when they don't do so. (and I highly doubt the average subscriber even knows what a firewall is, yet alone, runs one. I think the number of people that subscirbe to AOL backs me up on that.)

(sorry, I don't mean to highjack this thread into an arguement about the policies of high-speed ISP providers, but the conversation kinda just meandered that towards that topic.)


Oh BTW, I reached 1000 posts now. Yippeee! (how time flies. it only seems like it was a few months ago that I logged onto here for the first time to get LawyerRon's advice on whether to stick out law school or to go into the network industry, but it's really been about two and half years.)

[glc]

Seems to me Earthlink DSL offers a free copy of Norton Internet Security to new subscribers with a contract. I personally think ZA is better, but Norton does the job - and EL is to be commended for this proactive step.

Denial of service attacks are illegal, whether intentional or unknowing. Every ISP's TOS that I have read specifically prohibit DoS - and they *should* enforce this. However. most ISP's that I know also look the other way unless specific documented complaints are filed - and even then the responses are varied in nature. Their abuse departments just don't have the time or manpower to do much. As for not just wanting to take your money - look at @home - they will nuke your account if you are running servers and they "catch" you.

[Xayd]

Exactly my point Glc. Take for instance Sprint Ion, they'll give you 8000/1000 DSL for 99 dollars a month if you live in one of the cities they service. They give you a standard ADSL bridge and a single static IP from what I can see, that's it.

Imagine the amount of worms and virii and what not one person could distribute with that amount of bandwidth.

On the other hand, they have some committee that big-brothers regular Joes like us, and if too many people run a game server or whatever on a certain port, they'll start blocking it.

In other words, they'll sell ya the bandwidth but you can't use it. If you become the ignorant bot of some script kiddie, though, you'll be fine.

Xayd

[Scotty]

Wow I didn't know that there was so much to this DSL stuff. Now that I have it I gotta get it goin. We just got moved in and I haven't received the hardware yet. Can't I just use the NIT cards that I have now? I guess they want an extra $20 a month to link our PCs together?? Is there any hardware that you can buy that I don't have to pay for that option or is it just part of having the service? Anyway thanks for all the info! Scotty

[Xayd]

Yes, you can use your current NICs. Yes, you can network your machines without paying your ISP anything extra with a router, and that'll provide a firewall at the same time.

Search the forums for 'router' under Internet/WWW and Networking/Novell, you'll turn up plenty of previous posts.

Xayd

[Scotty]

Hey this is great! I just spent an hour downloading various and asundry stuff ie: IE6,ZoneAlarm,etc,etc IIIIIII LIKE IT! Thanks Fellow PCers! Scotty
PS Anyone got a good deal on a Router???

[Xayd]

Yeah, actually I've been trying to sell mine for a couple weeks, but not much interest .

Depends on if your ISP will work with this particular one, though. Most broadband routers that are available right now are an add-on. They plug in behind your DSL modem. The one I have is standalone, acts as modem + router all in one.

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?threadid=16706

Seeing as the previous price drew nobody, 60 bucks shipped if you're interested, but be sure it'll work with your provider first, and you'll need a hub as well if you intend to share and network several machines. A crappo 10mbps hub should run ya about 20 bucks or so locally.

xayd@pcmech.com

Xayd

[scottb99]

Troy-

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others in this room. Broadband users need to protect their machines. I don't know many average users that waste their money on broadband anyway. Most people on broadband are more experienced operators. If you are smart enough to set up your file swapping software or run ftp software, you should be able to take a couple minutes and download a free firewall program and set it up. I do believe it is a responsibility that comes with owning broadband.

[lovitz]

I have ADSL through the local telephone company and it's pretty good when it works. Out telco is a bunch of jackasses and their systems is loaded to the teeth with bugs. But when it's running good, it's running good.

[archie]

I agree with a lot of the comments above in regards to having a firewall when using a broadband internet connection ... otherwise, it would be asking for trouble. There is no excuse for not taking a proactive step and getting a firewall. It really isn't as complicated as what it may appear. Zonealarm is a free software solution if a hardware solution is not used [why not use both].
About the original question, whether to get DSL or not ... it depends on what is now being used and what other options are available. If my case, DSL was not an option as it was not/still isn't available in my area ... which left Rogers cable. I have been using it for about 1 year now and have to admit that while the connection is not always available [just this morning at 5:30 a.m., it was out when it was needed], the speed and convenience of having a permanent connection make it that it would be very difficult to go back to dial-up. To cope with the unreliable service, it is advisable to have a DUN connection available in addition to Rogers cable.
DSL may or may not be better than cable as far as reliability but if DSL is being compared to a DUN connection, it's worth it ... and that will be appreciated the very first time you are using the telephone and internet connection simultaneously and the speed of downloading files is witnessed [forget about the 3kps].

[archie]

That was meant to be 3kbps. To elaborate on that, the first time that I downloaded a big file, my jaw just dropped as the reading went up to about 170 kps. It would have gone higher [it was just rising higher and higher by the second] but the download was completed ... what in the past would have taken 1/2 an hour to complete was now possible in what seemed like a minute.

[Scotty]

Hi fellow PCers,
I just formated my puter for the third time in two weeks.. I guess I got too carried away with the downloads. he!he! Anyway what I was really going to share was that I started having trouble with the IE6 right off the bat. It would freeze up after the third browser window would open and I would have to wait for 20 to 30 seconds for it to catch up. After a few days I would loose the ability to open my e-mail or browser. I actually had some really persistant help with the tech crews here and they did all they could to help me. Part of the time I could power cycle the modem and it would open the browser up but not for long. (I was even given a new modem the last time.) I would uninstall the connection and reinstall it every other day and it would work that night. The next day it would get worse. I used ZA as soon as I got the dsl goin and used it all the time I was online. I have PCcillin also.. Finally I just re-formated and went back to IE5,ZA and PCcillin. So far so good. I really love this DSL though, it takes the pain out of reinstalling every other day, not that I have anything better to do Sorry so long... Scotty