Dumb, Dumb Mistake

[SARGE]

My son (age 20) has a '92 Taurus. We paid $2000 for it a few years ago and literally bought it from a little old lady who only drove it to church. Great shape, until he got it. Body damage, the inside so full of junk no one can sit, backseat so full of junk it rises to level of the top of front seats - you get the picture. He had overheating problems last summer which produced new radiator, hoses, water pump, etc. Dad paid for that to help him out. Bouncing off too many curbs ruined a wheel and tire so I did the honors again. I did all this so he'd have a car to go to work and do community service (don't ask), since he wasn't making much money. When I was at home I could have done all the above as working on cars was my hobby - hard to do now so shelled out the bucks. Today he calls and says his car is smoking a cloud behind him. Seems his car died on a busy street (no water in radiator he later found out) and a cop pushed him to a safe spot. He panicked at the time and for some reason put 3 quarts of oil in the engine, never checking the dipstick - duh. He thought that was the reason it died. Well, those 3 quarts were way too much and now he has a blown gasket, water leaking into the oil, and soon a blown engine. $500 will fix it but I'm not ponying up this time. All he had to do was call me before doing anything like adding oil, etc.

My gripe is that all the years I was at home, I couldn't get the boys outside when I did maintenance on my cars, even to learn how to change a flat tire, install a battery, change oil, even to check the tire pressure. Their mother was afraid they would get hurt, and were too busy playing video games to learn anything else. For you Dads out there, if you do things on your own car, please insist the boys (and girls) participate. Checking the oil dipstick is a no-brainer for even the non-mechanically inclined, or changing a flat tire, something everyone should be able to do. Duh!!

[786ARS]

SARGE, as my dad tells me anytime anything of value of mine gets damaged, by myself accidentally, "It's the only way you'll learn". And despite it being a cliched saying, I agree. I have started to take much better care of my possesions, especially when I have bought the thing using my own hard earned money. As for Cars, i hope I wont make too many mistakes in a couple of years when I will be finally be able to drive.

[HAL9000]

Personally, I think checking the fluids, tire pressure and even changing a tire should be part of the driving exam.

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 Personally, I think checking the fluids, tire pressure and even changing a tire should be part of the driving exam.

I believe it is covered in drivers education in the US, but nothing is better than first hand experience.

SARGE; I know what you mean about messy cars and taking care of possessions; a couple of my friends live out of their cars (not really, but they look like it) - they have a weeks change of cloths, trash, and all our hockey gear. They can barely see out of their rear windows.

[HAL9000]

Covered in drivers ed is one thing, passing an exam is totally different. I honestly believe, part of the exam should be;

1) Check the oil
2) Check the tire pressure
3) Tire changing... ok... mebbe not actually change the tire, but one should pull out the jack, put it in position and crank it just enough to put a load on it. Then be marked on prep such as remembering to set the parking brake.

[Stuey]

I check my oil frequently enough, but guilty with respect to not checking the tire pressure often enough.

I'm a little unsure though. What was the dumb dumb mistake? The adding oil without checking the dipstick, or your mistake for shelling out the dough to help?

On the other hand, I too only learn from my mistakes sometimes. Maybe he'll be more cautious now, knowing that he's left to pay for the car problems by himself.

[bailey]

I have found that helping out the kis with his car is ok to a point, it soon gets to where they just don;t care as they know dad will always come to the rescue.

I did things a bit different, I would go to him to help but only gave instructions, he had to do everything himself, they learn more that way.

I made sure that even my wife knew how to do the minor things herself too.

when I went to night school to learn engine rebuilding, she also took the course with me so she would know a bit how things worked, and we rebuild a complete car together including the
engine
transmission
complete front end
all breaks, front and rear.

we turned a $20.00 junk yard car into a nice family car.

[Brad the best]

thats not to bad , my dad bought my sister a 3000 $ 93 Daytona hatch back , with a 4 cylinder (should of kept her out of trouble) anyway striped and painted the hole car metallic purple with two silver racing stripes , did a stereo in it and rebuilt the engine .

then she drove it . 2 months and it was in a ditch (about 100 meters in a ditch) out in the middle of no wear on a dirt road . then it hit a few cars . then her shiny mags hit a few curbs , the aluminum actually had to be hammered back so the lo pro's would hold air cuz they were messed up so bad , 3 lo pro tires with side wall damage replaced . then all of a sudden doors didn't close cuz the body was so messed up because she took it 4 wheeling .

she has never changed a tire , checked oil or coolant or power steering or brake fluid or even tire pressure . i have done everything and it's the only reason its still on the road .

the only sad thing is now my dad is reluctant to do anything to my younger sisters 99 protege or my brothers escort .

im still in the loop thow , since i have been building engines since i was about 6 , and have proven myslef over the years , infact some times i get in trouble for doing to much maintenance .

some people just aren't interested or think daddy will just fix it . i wont even let my dad buy me parts for my jeep .

[Strider]

Well, it's not just the young that should know a thing or two about how to maintain an automobile. Once at work a fellow co-worker's car wouldn't start and ask me if I would jump start his car, I had an appointment and was running late as it was. Another co-worker (around 50 years old) said he would do it, I don't know why but I ask him if he ever jump started a car (He didn't look like the type that would work on a car), he said no he never did. I told him how to do it and said to him "If you're still unsure get someone else to do it, for it could be dangerous or damage the car if done incorrectly", but he said he would have no problem in doing it. The next day Doug (The person who's car wouldn't start) came over to me shaking his head and told me that his car was in the shop, for you guessed it the car was incorrectly jump. He told me he crossed the wires and the battery blew up and caused a whole bunch of electrical problems in his car.

[MaxRat]

I wouldnt shell out the money...it will teach him a leason...

If you keep doing it everytime he has a problem he will call dear ole' dad...knowing you'll pick up the slack and he will continue to do so until you cut him off...

as for the engine...to be too hard on him about the oil goof... the damage was done before he added the oil...

the reason the car was belching smoke was the damage was already done.... worst thing that can happen with too much oil is blow a gasket and spew oil every where...or if he hot rods it...throw a rod or two....

now.. this could either be a gasket or the head itself... chances are this was stemming damage from when it overheated before...when you had the water pump and radiator replaced.... some engines once overheated and only take so many thermal cycles before damage occurs....

You may get lucky...but I would bet on the head being cracked... Usually one of the center cylinders right between the valves...that cylinder will have a green tip on the spark splug...

but beings you have water in the oil...it may very well be a gasket... and you mite have green plugs in 2 adjacent cylinders....

either way it's going to cost some bucks....

If he pays for it maybe he will take better care of it and keep an eye on things...

best thing you can do on aluminum engines (especially with aluminum heads) is put a 180 degree thermostat in it... I alway use a 160 degree chances of blowing a gasket or cracking head are less with lower temps...

[SARGE]

Originally Posted by MaxRat now.. this could either be a gasket or the head itself... chances are this was stemming damage from when it overheated before...when you had the water pump and radiator replaced.... some engines once overheated and only take so many thermal cycles before damage occurs....

Good point. He had driven it for days and was overheating to the point of dying. It finally died in the street and a cop pushed him out of the way. That's when he put the oil in it, got it started and drove home. I then walked him thru putting water in the empty radiator, when he finally called. You're probably right - the overheating did the damage.

[edfair]

Had a wife that wouldn't even let me show her where the dipstick was. Just plain wouldn't consider it and got mad every time I suggested it. For that and a few others things the operative word is "had".

[IntegraGSR]

A bit off-topic, but I am very interested in learning how to work on my cars. I know how to check oil, change oil, change tires, replace a radiator, spark plugs/wires, etc. I work full time and I go to school 3/4 time, I was just wondering if there's anywhere I could research on how to work on my car to save me money and headache? Should I attend a night class or something on engine rebuilding or something?

[MaxRat]

Originally Posted by IntegraGSR A bit off-topic, but I am very interested in learning how to work on my cars. I know how to check oil, change oil, change tires, replace a radiator, spark plugs/wires, etc. I work full time and I go to school 3/4 time, I was just wondering if there's anywhere I could research on how to work on my car to save me money and headache? Should I attend a night class or something on engine rebuilding or something?

yea...the internet....mmmm and your on it...

Everything you could ever want to know is here.... ask.com or any search engine will get you the info if your willing to read...

I am more of a hands on person my self.... but eh info is here.... and if you dont understand just ask...

good auto tech site...clubhotrod.com as well as thousands of others...surf away...

[IntegraGSR]

I'm more of a hands-on guy too, but none of my friends or close relatives really work on cars that much. You can tell me up and down how to replace a blown headgasket but till I do it I'm pretty lost.

I've searched on Google and such and the info certainly is there, I just wish I had a pro or someone who knew what they were doing looking over my shoulder so I could learn from them.

I'll check out clubhotrod, thanks!

[piff263]

i think that if kids or adults buy something themselfs or fix things they learn how to respect their property and others if there parents buy them things they probly won't take care of it i think its more of a pride issue on taking care of things that a person buys for themselfs and they probly don't want to buy another if it breaks
speaking of bad mistakes a had a great aunt and her car ran out of gas and for some reason she put gas in the distrubter cap and started her car and blew it up on the side of a highway
don't now what she was thinking but its a good thing no one got hurt

[David M]

Sarge,
Bottom line, the problem is not the car, it is him and how you treat him. He is an adult now and so long as dad keeps bailing him out of every situation he will never learn that he is responsible for his actions. The beat up and abused car are only symptoms of the real problem...his immaturity and failure to become a man. I would be heartbroken if my son turned out the same way. I think though that you have to do what is best for him in the long term even if it hurts you in the short term. I think it may be time to apply a little tough love.

[SARGE]

Originally Posted by David M Sarge, Bottom line, the problem is not the car, it is him and how you treat him. He is an adult now and so long as dad keeps bailing him out of every situation he will never learn that he is responsible for his actions. The beat up and abused car are only symptoms of the real problem...his immaturity and failure to become a man. I would be heartbroken if my son turned out the same way. I think though that you have to do what is best for him in the long term even if it hurts you in the short term. I think it may be time to apply a little tough love.

You are right. However, there are extenuating circumstances which won't prove necessary in this nor any other thread. I could write a book on my take on how all this came to this point, and it would be very accurate. BTW, we found the head was cracked from overheating, something very preventable. The car is toast now, so a lesson learned. Hope is feet are in good shape for walking, however the state mental hospital looms on the horizon - sooner the better.

[clroberts]

Jumpstarting a car is so simple I can't understand how people can get it wrong. In fact, the only thing that truly has to be hooked up is the positive side of the terminals. The negative side can just be hooked to another grounded part of the engine compartment. (Although I always hook it to the negative terminal myself) As far as the other maintenance, I used to change my dad's oil in his vehicle when I was around 12. One thing I have noticed about changing oil since I was a Kid is that I have a lot more strength so when I tighten the Oil Filter, it stays tight and oil does not leak. (I did have one mishap where the Gasket from the old Oil Filter came off and since I have never encountered that before, I did not notice that until I started the car and Oil leaked everywhere. Of course I quickly shut off the engine before anything could get damaged.)

[HAL9000]

You should NEVER hook the negative cable to the terminal of the battery on the dead car... always to ground... you can do damage by going post to post... also, I can't remember the theory behind it, but you do get a better boost by going to ground than post to post. You watch somebody boost that way and quite often the live car has to give the dead car a min or two to charge... go to ground and start er up... no probs.

[David M]

What do you mean HAL? The negative terminal bolts to the cars frame. Whats the difference, electrically, between putting the negative clip of a charger to a post or the frame?

[glc]

The reason it's recommended to make the final hookup to the frame instead of the post is so the sparks won't ignite battery gases.

[SARGE]

Originally Posted by glc The reason it's recommended to make the final hookup to the frame instead of the post is so the sparks won't ignite battery gases.

Very true, for it has happened. My former company and I insisted that one wear safety goggles when jump-starting, regardless the method. We only got 2 eyes and they can be extinguished quickly by an exploding battery.

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by IntegraGSR I'm more of a hands-on guy too, but none of my friends or close relatives really work on cars that much. You can tell me up and down how to replace a blown headgasket but till I do it I'm pretty lost. I've searched on Google and such and the info certainly is there, I just wish I had a pro or someone who knew what they were doing looking over my shoulder so I could learn from them. I'll check out clubhotrod, thanks!

I replaced the engine on my Infiniti G20 (see the link in my signature). I basically learned how to do it along the way. Two things in particular helped me:

1. I had the factory service manual. I would highly recommend buying or downloading the one for your car if you want to do work on it.
2. There is a forum, G20.net, just for G20s. If as your username suggests you drive an Integra, there are a lot of those forums out there. Just find a good one and start reading threads and searching for solutions.

The engine swap took about 3.5 weeks at 3-4 hours a day, but when I went to start it up it ran. A few things needed to be ironed out (new battery and starter, adjusting the throttle position sensor and throttle cable) but overall I did it right. The FSM and G20.net were the reason, because I got maybe one hour of hands-on help from anyone who had done this kind of thing before (a friend helped me drop the engine when he came by with a hoist). Everything else, I was feeling it out.

I registered the G20 on December 20, and have already driven it about 500 miles on the new engine (and clutch and brakes and a bunch of other stuff). It drove up to Delaware and back, and then down to DC and back. Works great!

[David M]

Originally Posted by glc The reason it's recommended to make the final hookup to the frame instead of the post is so the sparks won't ignite battery gases.

If the battery is dead then it has not been gassing. Gassing (production of hydrogen) only occurs during charging. Still though, better safe than sorry.

On the boat, I had a battery regulator fail when the voltage sensor wire broke. One of the banks got up to 19 volts (12v system) and blew the lid right off the battery box from a hydrogen explosion. It blew the top off one of the batterys exposing the cells and blew battery acid everywhere. Battery explosions are serious business

[DougL]

I believe that they are now introducing more into the UK driving test. Additions include parking in a public carpark and pointing out the main features of the engine compartment to the examiner i.e. where to put oil, water etc.. I know how you feel though SARGE as my two grown up daughters use to drive me nuts (scuse the pun) i taught them both to drive and promptly "lost" my car when they both passed the test!!! I use my motorbike more now.


Doug

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by David M If the battery is dead then it has not been gassing. Gassing (production of hydrogen) only occurs during charging. Still though, better safe than sorry. On the boat, I had a battery regulator fail when the voltage sensor wire broke. One of the banks got up to 19 volts (12v system) and blew the lid right off the battery box from a hydrogen explosion. It blew the top off one of the batterys exposing the cells and blew battery acid everywhere. Battery explosions are serious business

Like I said though, not sure what the difference is.... come watch a car being boosted when it-s -40 done terminal to terminal... the running car will have to sit on it for a few minutes and possibly rev up the engine to get a bit of a charge into it before trying.... take the negative off the terminal on the dead car and put it on ground and you don't even need to have the boosting car running, the dead one will go.

[lil Jimmie]

Originally Posted by SARGE For you Dads out there, if you do things on your own car, please insist the boys (and girls) participate. Checking the oil dipstick is a no-brainer for even the non-mechanically inclined, or changing a flat tire, something everyone should be able to do. Duh!!

My daughter (age 14) will know more about auto care than most grown men before she even gets her drivers license.
Also my wife and I will not buy her a car she will earn it just like I did.

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by lil Jimmie Also my wife and I will not buy her a car she will earn it just like I did.

That was originally my parents' philosophy. But back then they were concerned about me driving a used car 400 miles home and back when I had breaks from college. They had a newer Taurus already so they let me take their older one to school. I still feel as if it's they're car (well, technically it still is since I can't afford to be under my own insurance), even though I've been the primary driver for 3 and a half years now.

I have friends who keep on wrecking cars and their parents keep giving them new ones. I have friends who buy used junkers and then keep pouring money into them. I have friends who drive a used parents' vehicle (like me) who maintain the vehcile and use it responsibly, and I have a few friends who are still single and bought their own new or slightly used vehicles.

it pains me that a lot of people my age take things for granted and mistreat their or their parents' cars. What also angers me is the fact that a girl I knew from upstate NY totalled an SUV and then a sedan, and her insurance on the 3rd car was still less than HALF of my insurance. Once I get married in July, I'll be on my own in terms of insurance and I expect it to double. The following year, when I'm 25, I expect it to plummet so it's not too bad of a situation for me. But still... things like this anger me. It's partly due to the amount of fraudulent claims, but mostly because a lot of hot headed teenagers don't have respect for the road, their vehicles, or other drivers.