Michael Vick and the Falcons

[tomster2300]

Just as I thought the Falcons might actually have a decent season this year Vick has to go out and get himself in trouble again. Not that I'm saying dog fighting isn't a horribly despicable crime (I have a dog myself), I just thought that things were finally looking up for Atlanta, and now this.

It looks like Nike's tentatively keeping their endorsement deal with him (they've continued their planned release of Vick's new shoe next month), though if he's found guilty then they'll be forced to leave him like everyone else. I think Nike has a larger investment in Vick then other ventures, forcing them to stick it out until it positively tarnishes their image.

What do you guys think about the whole situation? Could the Falcons be successful if Vick were out of the equation?

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 What do you guys think about the whole situation? Could the Falcons be successful if Vick were out of the equation?

Absolutely not. Just looked what happened to their season when he broke his leg? This is the end of Michael Vick and the Falcons as we know them.

Fighting dogs isn't as bad as shooting people or being an accomplice to such, but if some of the allegations are true, i.e., the grisly depictions of the dog executions, then the shaving cream is truly gonna hit the fan, hard, furiously and relentlessly.

This is the end of Michael Vick and the Falcons as we know them.

[sgtspector]

Too bad they just traded away Scwab (sp?). All reports were that he had tons of potential. I don't think the Texans will be much of a measuring stick either to see if he is any good. It could be a very tough year in Atl.

[edfair]

When a franchise builds their team around the abilities of one player they set themselves up for other teams to contain the threat. The Atlanta franchise has a history of self destruction based on this.

[tomster2300]

I was hoping Petrino would be able to turn the club around, but there's nothing he can do about this I'm afraid.

[kram 2.0]

Another year for New Orleans or Carolina. This definitely makes Chargers former GM John Butler look like a genius when trading Vick away for Tomlinson and some major compensation.

kram

[TwoRails]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 .... Not that I'm saying dog fighting isn't a horribly despicable crime (I have a dog myself), ... What do you guys think about the whole situation? ...

I'm not into dog fighting, so I'll have to say "too bad" if he looses money from any source. Will he be missed on the field? of course.

[TimPoet]

Well,Vick gets suspended indefinitely from the NFL just hours after publicly admitting to some of the charges.Kudos to the comish for acting swiftly and justly. It will greatly help the NFL.

This begs the question: will Vick ever play again?

[shadowpr]

if it was up to me, no.

[tomster2300]

I doubt he will. Even though the public has a limited memory, something that's been given this much press can easily be stirred up once again if he is readmitted into the league.

That being said, I sure was looking forward to how new coach Petrino, who was hired for his quarterback coaching abilities, was going to help Vick progress. Looks like that'll now be left up to Madden 07 gamers to decide.

Joey Harrington is going to be horrible, and his potential backup QB D.J. Shockley went down for the season from a serious knee injury in the latest pre-season Falcons game.

I feel worse for Shockley right now in knowing his past history with injury and the quarterback situation he had to go through while at the University of Georgia. This was his first real shot at being a true Falcons backup and he ended up hurting himself for the season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/traini...ory?id=2982212

[sgtspector]

While I understand the uproar over the charges there's one thing that bothers me. Vick is in trouble because he killed dogs and he should be. But if he gets suspended what should they have done with Ray Lewis. He was a participant in the murder of a human being and didn't miss a snap. To quote Arthur Kirkland (Al Pacino) in And Justice for All "there's something really wrong here." Maybe we needed a group like P.E.T.H. (People for the ethical treatment of Humans) to protest and he would have lost some time too.

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by sgtspector While I understand the uproar over the charges there's one thing that bothers me. Vick is in trouble because he killed dogs and he should be. But if he gets suspended what should they have done with Ray Lewis. He was a participant in the murder of a human being and didn't miss a snap.

You know, I've just been mulling the same idea, Sgt, for the past couple days... What makes this so different in the eyes of the public and my own as well?

EDIT:

I am mistaken, I thought you meant Jamal Lewis who admitted or was convicted of crimes like Vick. Ray seems to have been exonerated to some degree. An important distinction, that.

I do see part of your point here, we are only talking about animals and not people. There is a world of difference there. It is evil enough to kill dogs and be cruel to them but it doesn't equate to harming people.

PETA absolutely drives me mad.

[chuck4456]

12 months might be the equivalent of 12 years when all is said and done. I had a guy working for me (long time ago) who had spent 10 years in prison. He said the only ones that were treated worse than rapists and child molesters by the general population were animal abusers. He told me: "That s*** didn't flush!"

It's all wrong - anyway you look at it.

As far as the Falcons go - there's plenty of QBs these days. He's history. Maybe the PANTHERS will beat Atlanta for a change, this Fall.

[Lespaul20]

So if somebody gets away with something that then sets the new precedent? I don't think so.

Anybody that owns/owned a dog knows that what he did was wrong and should be punished and anybody that doesn't should feel that way anyhow.

There is a world of difference there. It is evil enough to kill dogs and be cruel to them but it doesn't equate to harming people

I don't see why this comment was necessary, in no way is he facing punishment that would fit the severity of murder. That's why he only facing 5 year or something around there. He obviously broke the law and just because he can run fast and score touchdowns for your team doesn't mean he should get be allowed to break laws. The people who are giving him slack are the same kind of people who supported Paris Hilton. He should have enough money to live out the rest of his life should he not play another minute of football. This guy is a role model and I think that people forget how much influence on our young this guy actually has.

BTW, I actually loath PETA also and disagree with 99.999% of what they stand for.

[TimPoet]

There is a world of difference there. It is evil enough to kill dogs and be cruel to them but it doesn't equate to harming people

Originally Posted by Lespaul20 I don't see why the above comment was necessary, in no way is he facing punishment that would fit the severity of murder.... He obviously broke the law and just because he can run fast and score touchdowns for your team doesn't mean he should get be allowed to break laws. The people who are giving him slack are the same kind of people who supported Paris Hilton.

I felt the comment was very necessary, but I am not sure it is profitable for PC Mech for me to directly respond to you. I don't wanna get into a public fight here.

Perhaps we should take it to Private Messages.

[Lespaul20]

Originally Posted by TimPoet There is a world of difference there. It is evil enough to kill dogs and be cruel to them but it doesn't equate to harming people.

And I said nothing to disagree with that and I think the Prosecutors, Courts and the Laws agree also. But there are laws against dog fight and cruelty to animals and illegal gambling for that matter and if he broke those laws then he should face the consequences. If he happens to lose his career over it then thats just collateral damage for the things he did.

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by Lespaul20 And I said nothing to disagree with that and I think the Prosecutors, Courts and the Laws agree also. But there are laws against dog fight and cruelty to animals and illegal gambling for that matter and if he broke those laws then he should face the consequences. If he happens to lose his career over it then thats just collateral damage for the things he did.

You have a PM

[David M]

Put it this way...if Tiger Woods were found to be raising fighting dogs should Nike pull his sponsorship? Hell yes!

Corporate sponsorships are based on a players public persona...whether or not they have been found guilty of a crime. Is that fair?..No. Does a corporation have the right to decide who they are and are not going to sponsor?...Absolutely.

Tiger has an excellent public persona and Vick does not.

To those who are trying to minimize dog fighting?...come on, the vast majority of the public finds dog fighting to be repulsive. Anyone who commits or promotes dogfighting is a dirtbag and Nike is justified in revoking the corporate sponsorship of such a person.

The NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL should ban any player who commits a serious felony for life. Players are role models to millions of kids...whether or not the players like that fact. Part of accepting that multi-million dollar contract is to be a responsible citizen and role model.

It's just too bad if a player screws up in his personal life and gets himself banned from the sport....deal with it fans. Whether or not you're sports team wins this year is not more important than who the roll models are for millions of kids.

If sports ever become more important than ethics, values or the law, then I will know our society has degenerated beyond hope.

[shadowpr]

Originally Posted by David M The NFL, MLB, Basketball and NHL should ban any player who commits a serious felony for life.

Truth.

[TwoRails]

I don't keep up with celebrity crimes much, but if I remember right, the murder charges again Lewis were drop. That makes him innocent in the eyes of the law. Now, how does that, and Vick, relate on acts against animals versus humans? As I heard folks talking at work the other day: people getting into bar room fights is their own decisions most of the time. Animals being forced to fight is Not their decisions. Animals don't have a conscience choice but people do.

[pally01]

Originally Posted by TimPoet This begs the question: will Vick ever play again?

No doubt in my mind that he will play again. After any token sentence is completed, there will be at least a few teams willing to sign him. The outcry will be short lived and drowned out by the chants/raves of rabid fans hungry for a chance to win.

Money talks and people have short memories.

Absolutley assured he will play again.

[TwoRails]

That will be interesting to discover how short the public's memory will be. OJ was found innocent in criminal court, yet no one has forgotten him. Vick has already confessed, so he is not innocent. A lot of this is in the innocence of the victims. When someone "bad" gets hit, nobody seems to care, and some will even cheer. When an "innocent" is the victim, there is more of an outcry. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I would be willing to bet, just based on the number of folks I've met, that the number people who would rather see a "bad" human die over an "innocent" animal is quite large.

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by TwoRails When an "innocent" is the victim, there is more of an outcry. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I would be willing to bet, just based on the number of folks I've met, that the number of people who would rather see a "bad" human die over an "innocent" animal is quite large.

And this alarms me; the devaluation of human life can only lead to terrible trouble- well, it already has, if you get my drift....

[TwoRails]

Yes, I agree. The amount of violence in the world is alarming to me. Even in simple things; just pay attention to regular TV commercials and you be amazed at how many contain violence or total disrespect for "stuff" in general. It has become a way of life. You can't watch the new without another shooting / stabbing outside of a night club. Then there's all the "wars" going on and countries that have been in wars "forever" and death is a way of life. And on and on...

[tigstah]

Originally Posted by pally01 No doubt in my mind that he will play again. After any token sentence is completed, there will be at least a few teams willing to sign him. The outcry will be short lived and drowned out by the chants/raves of rabid fans hungry for a chance to win. Money talks and people have short memories. Absolutley assured he will play again.

well that depends on how long his sentence is. and how long the nfl will suspend him for. one guy from espn is saying he wont be back until 2010 at the earliest. thats 3 season removed. if he returns i doubt it will be as a qb. if he gets more than a year in prison, will he stay in shape.
what an idiot, you throw away a 130 million dollar nfl contract, a lucrative nike contract, an endoresement with an airline......for gambling on dog fighting.

[David M]

He was doing more than gambling on dog fighting. He was bankrolling the fighting...actively supporting the fighting according to this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/othe...ll/6963249.stm

[TwoRails]

He did more than that: he slaughtered dogs that didn't perform well. (What's his punishment for not doing well??)

n or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, VICK, and two others "rolled" or "tested" additional "Bad Newz Kennels" dogs by putting the dogs through fighting sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road to determine which animals were good fighters. PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK. . . .

edit: the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

[David M]

Underperforming dogs are also killed by wetting them down and electrocuting them.

What sort of sick person gets himself involved in such a thing? He does not deserve to wear a football uniform ever again.

Source: http://sport.guardian.co.uk/ussports...ticle_continue

[TwoRails]

That's putting it mildly, but I agree.

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by TwoRails He did more than that: he slaughtered dogs that didn't perform well.

I'm thinking you mean he cruelly killed the under-performing dogs. Remember they kill greyhound dogs for the same thing, though I think it's prolly by injection. And I know pet owners who put their dogs down when they do not do as they expected. I don't think they are guilty of wrongdoing or deserve to go to prison or face other punishments. It's the cruelty that is the pivotal issue here.

Man exercising his domain over animals is not evil. We are very dependent on the killing of animals for our existence. It's how it is done that is the key....