a qustion for any lawyers

[stealthsniper96]

this is a topic that ive never been able to get an easy answer for so i was wondering if you guys could help me out. if i use a dvd ripping program and rip dvd's to watch them on my lappy and ipod would that be legal or illegal?

[shadowpr]

i'm not a lawyer, but i've also interpretted it as if you bought the dvd, and then would make a copy for your own private use and din't make any profit off of it then it was ok.

i could be wrong, but i like thinking abot it like that.

[glc]

It's legal to copy your DVD for your own personal use. You may not sell it or give it to anyone else.

[thefultonhow]

This is somewhat of a gray area, because according to the DMCA, it's illegal to break encryption in order to copy media, which is what you must do to rip a DVD. However, it is legal under the fair use provision of older copyright law to make copies for your own use of your legally bought music, movies, and (within the license agreement) software.

[tigstah]

thats a crazy law, its ok to copy, as long as you dont break the copy protection.

[stealthsniper96]

Originally Posted by tigstah thats a crazy law

I agree 100%. im just trying to rip some movies for my ipod and i gotta worry about Dream Works suing me.

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by stealthsniper96 I agree 100%. im just trying to rip some movies for my ipod and i gotta worry about Dream Works suing me.

Realistically, they won't sue because if you don't share what you've ripped, it's pretty hard to figure out you've done anything. All the same, what you are trying to do is illegal, so we can't help you with it, but suffice it to say that Google has plenty of tutorials on the topic.

[daveyp225]

Would a loophole for that law be if you bought a DVD and recorded the output from the DVD player? Or, if from the internet, you downloaded a movie you already own?

[Marke522]

I have a similar question about sharing TV shows. Once in awhile I'll miss something I like to follow, and I'll get it from (fill in the blank). Since those shows are broadcasted over public airwaves, would they be considered public property? Or do you have to leave the commercials in the recording of the program? This would be the same radio, would it not? Anything played on a radio station could be recorded, so does that make it ok to share the radio version of that song?

I'm sure I just hijacked this thread, that wasn't my intention. The original post just got my mind working.

recorded the output from the DVD player?

I've tried before to connect my DVD player through my VCR, since it was an older model television, and I was getting a strange effect where is was real dark for a minute, then normal, then real bright. I'm sure no one would want a recording of that. But there might be ways now of connect S-Video to something else, instead of using RCA. I know that companies now make DVDR/VCR combos, but I don't know what kind of quality they are, or if you are allowed to go both ways. I mean with the recording.

[TimPoet]

Originally Posted by Marke522 I have a similar question about sharing TV shows.... Since those shows are broadcasted over public airwaves, would they be considered public property?

That's the key to your question, since it is sent over public airways then it is fair game.... Now, about cable tv, I don't know....

[Force Flow]

Basically from what I understand, recording TV shows (from any station) is fine for personal use (specifically when it comes to "timeshifting). This is how TiVo remains legal (although, it has butted heads with copyright holders on this issue).

If you start sharing shows outside of the "Fair Use" clause of copyrighted material...that's where you get into trouble.

"Fair Use" usually entails educational use, for official or personal archival purposes (such as a public library or making a backup copy), for news reviews/commentary, and for creating significantly different works based off of it. Note that these aren't set in stone, but that's about the general gist of it without being a lawyer.

So, recording a show that you plan on watching later is fine. Recording a show and giving it out to your friends would make the copyright owner frown, but isn't usually persued since it's not a public re-distrobution of the material. If you setup a public showing of the recorded show in the park or on your front lawn...the copyright holders would not be too happy with that.

[TimPoet]

Force, I assume this applies to cable TV as well?

[Force Flow]

As far as I know. I think some cable providers are even offering their own DVR-type devices, possibly in response to TiVo

[edit]: I'm not sure how this would apply to pay-per-view type services.

[tomster2300]

Charter Digital offers a DVR box if you wish to use it. I just used Windows Vista Media Center myself for recording live tv.

I've always understood it being that if you owned the media then you had a right to make copies of said media for your own personal use. You couldn't sell them, but you could make backups in case you broke a disc or something.

Isn't there a something about how by purchasing the product you're essentially purchasing the right to use the product, although you maintain no ownership over the product? Am I thinking of operating systems and cd keys?

[Force Flow]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Isn't there a something about how by purchasing the product you're essentially purchasing the right to use the product, although you maintain no ownership over the product? Am I thinking of operating systems and cd keys?

In this age of digital products, yes, that's more or less what's happening. Digital products come with a license agreement or terms of service (ToS) that outline what the company provides, what the restrictions are, and how you are/aren't allowed to use your particular copy of the product.

Digital music is a huge can of worms in this case (DRM and all that jazz). With DRM protected music, record companies were/are essentially trying to control the supply (and thus control the price). With vynil records, this wasn't a problem since they were difficult to duplicate for the average listener. Casettes then came along, followed by CDs, and now digital copies which can be replicated over and over again at no extra cost (Canada just recently talked about implementing a blank CD and/or MP3 player tax to help amend this problem on the record company side of things).

As you can see, big can o' worms there. Since you can enforce the use physical product through the limitations of tangible object, for products existing as 1's and 0's you either have to enforce it via software (very expensive and in then end, annoys customers) or with laws (designed to help protect company assets, but in the end, seems to cause more grief than its worth on both sides of the equation).

Anyway, if you are going to do something in the proverbial gray area that isn't strictly for personal use, either keep it to yourself, consult an actual lawyer, or inquire through the company's licensing department (yes, even PCM has licensing and terms of use for our site content). Most people don't have the legal background to deal with such matters because of reading a few articles found online. I'm no expert either; I just find this stuff interesting (and reasonably important) considering the digital age we're living in.

[Marke522]

you're essentially purchasing the right to use the product,

I remember years ago reading the back of a Nintendo 64 game, can't remember the title, but it essentailly said, you were purchasing an agreement that allowed you to use the material, as long as you didn't alter it, or give it out to anyone else. But if you were to give it away, the next owner had to agree to the same terms, and you were to delete all material pertaining to said program.

It's not like buying a desk or a pair of shoes. You can do what you want with the desk. Make it bigger, smaller, paint it a different color, whatever, it's yours. But the recorded medium is entirely different.

Strange.