harrassment at work

[meangene714]

Hey all,

Haven't been posting much around here, but needed to vent.

My girlfriend just came home and told me that a co-worker made inappropriate contact with her. I won't go into details, but let's just say I'm ready to m*rder somebody.

She's afraid of all the rumors and what not that will circulate once she reports this to management to get his ass fired. I'm so pissed right now. Rant over.

[Nuclear Krusader]

I remember the days when a good slap across the lowlife's face would stop harassment cold. But now he could get her charged with assault , so it seems that what she did was the best under the circumstances. Rumours can't be avoided, so I don't think she should be overly worried about that.

[shadowpr]

tell her to report him.

and don't let your emotions get the best of you. trust me on this. i've been where you are.

just be there for her, and comfort her and let her know that you will support her decision to report the guy that did that.

[glc]

Tread carefully - you weren't there and did not see everything that went down. Right now you are only hearing one side of the story.

[mbossman2]

As a former manager:

This must be reported immediately. The company has an obligation to treat this matter swiftly and confidentially. Any actions by the company or the accused against the accuser can, and will be, treated as retaliatory and that is bad juju for the company. This includes not only actions by management (demotions, cut back of hours etc) but also the spreading of rumors by the accused. Spreading of rumors is considered as a continuation of harassment and is an actionable evernt by the accuser.

Every company I know has extremely strict rules when it comes to work place sexual harassment and swift penalties. Sexual harassment and unfriendly/abusive work environments are serious hot button issues and failure to prevent or take corrective action can be very expensive to the company upon litigation.

[Stuey]

Aside from that, you don't have any right (legally at least) to act on her behalf, so try to avoid getting involved. Support her as was suggested, and have her report the incident. If the offender did this before, they might already have reports on file. If not, at least it will be documented so that if no action is taken and the offense is repeated, she can file a complaint against the company for their inaction.

[backithink]

As a manager of a buisness that just recently delt with a similar issue between two subordinates, i cant tell you first hand she needs to report it. if managment has failed to follow up on her reports and take care of the problem she can always go to her local police station and file a report. most likely the upper managment staff will deal with it swiftly. this is a very important issue and if not delt with properly it can cost the company alot of money, and i dont care if your microsoft no company wants to pay for not dealing with someones idiotic actions in the work place.

[mbossman2]

follow up by management is key: sexual harassment is one of the few accusations where a manager/supervisor can be held personally liable (that is to say that the "corporate" umbrella no longer covers the employee so instead of the company taking the bullet, the employee could be held liable for any financial judgment/award).

[David M]

I guess it depends on how bad is bad...but did she tell the guy not to do that again? It is so easy to go running to the authorities when someone does an injustice when sometimes it is best to tell the perpetrator not to do that again.

If someone touched her breast or patted her on the rear end or tried to kiss her that is one thing but if it was something much less harmful such as touching her shoulders then that is another thing..probably best dealt with by telling the guy right to his face..."Don't do that again..Ever!"

In my sexual harassment course I was told that touching a woman on the shoulders is sexual harassment...as insane as that seems.

The severity of what happened matters and should determine if she should run to the authorities. Some problems can be dealt with directly without having to bring in a third party.

[backithink]

Originally Posted by David M The severity of what happened matters and should determine if she should run to the authorities. Some problems can be dealt with directly without having to bring in a third party.

This is true and is most cases it can be delt with directly but alot of people are left feeling too uncomfortable to actually approach the person and talk with them about it they usually shrug it off at the time then when they are clear of that person they start to voice their concerns, and some may not due to fear of losing their job if this contact comes from a "boss" this is why most companies provide anonymous channels to deal with this. No you cannot be fired for being harrassed but alot of women and some men still fear this, or are afraid of causing "ripples".

bringing in the authorities Can be considered overkill unless this has happened to you. it all depends on the person. But as long as managment or HR has been informed of the problem and it is being delt with in the right manner there should be no need to contact any one else unless the behavior has been delt with and still continues or the situation was ignored. it all depends on how the individuals and the buisness chooses to deal with it.

[David M]

Originally Posted by backithink This is true and is most cases it can be delt with directly but alot of people are left feeling too uncomfortable to actually approach the person and talk with them about it they usually shrug it off at the time then when they are clear of that person they start to voice their concerns, and some may not due to fear of losing their job if this contact comes from a "boss" this is why most companies provide anonymous channels to deal with this. No you cannot be fired for being harrassed but alot of women and some men still fear this, or are afraid of causing "ripples". bringing in the authorities Can be considered overkill unless this has happened to you. it all depends on the person. But as long as managment or HR has been informed of the problem and it is being delt with in the right manner there should be no need to contact any one else unless the behavior has been delt with and still continues or the situation was ignored. it all depends on how the individuals and the buisness chooses to deal with it.

I was not saying that she should not report this. Thus far though, no mention has been made of the severity of the sexual harassment and everyone previous to me has said that automatically, it should be reported. My point was that the severity of the harassment should be taken into consideration before reporting the incident. Sometimes people do sexually harrass others...by accident..such as my last example of placing your hand on the shoulder of a woman...or accidentally calling a woman "dear" or winking at her.

Sometimes people are so quick to react and more severely than the situation warrants. meangean714 has made no mention of the severity as I write this. So to jump to conclusions that it should be reported makes no sense..at least not to me. We were not left with enough information to make that call.

[XenaWP]

Ok, the OP said he was EXTREMELY angry. I'd guess it was more than a "hand on the shoulder" David.

Then again, his screenname is Meangene, so maybe the other guy just looked down her cleavage ....

[HAL9000]

I agree.. there are some things that can be handled tactfully, and others that require more extreme measures... as for him being extremely angry... my ex-wife got EXTREMELY angry when I talked to a former high school classmate (female).... she was an EXTREMELY jealous person... so you can't really base your decision on that.

[backithink]

no worries david i was saying i agree with you, we really dont know the whole story and frankly only the two parties involved do, i have delt with this situation several times with employees and with my own girlfriend, luckily they turned out to be mis understandings. but quit simply this is a matter that needs to taken care of, hopefully its nothing.

[Kuch]

David makes a good point. Did the guy ask her out? Or did he cop a feel? One is obviously more severe than the other. If he merely asked her out, although still technically sexual harassment, telling the offender she has a boyfriend could put an end to it.

[XenaWP]

Originally Posted by Kuch ... If he merely asked her out, although still technically sexual harassment, telling the offender she has a boyfriend could put an end to it.

Um, obviously you don't know very much about men.

Once, not so long ago, a guy at work got my home phone number somehow, and proceeded to call me periodically at home. From the first time I made it clear I wasn't interested, and that I was LIVING WITH SOMEONE. He was very obtuse. He persisted in calling. See, he had to knock down a few bourbons to work up the courage to call, and evidently this dulled his memory a bit, because he never seemed to remember that I wasn't interested.

Eventually it stopped, but it went on for years, literally. I didn't want to get Human Resources involved, yes, probably should have, but that was the decision I made. Technically he was WAY over the line, but was never obscene, never got physical, was mostly just an annoyance every couple of months.

Anyway, just telling this harasser that the lady "has a boyfriend" is far from guaranteed to have the desired effect.

[HAL9000]

OK, now you're generalizing all men as stalkers... Kuch said it COULD put an end to it.

[doubledragon5]

My wife went through the same thing not to long ago at work. It was caught on video camera. What did the Co do to the person, gave him a promotion and raise. Besides that they never reported it to the corporate office.. When I heard I gave corporate a call, they did not return my call either.. when the word LAWYER was mentioned the second time they called me back in under 5 minutes.. They talked to the wife on the phone, and all they were concerned about was that he didn't do it again. Needless to say the wife stopped working there...Some co don't care about anything that important, not until they get sued...

[Kuch]

Originally Posted by XenaWP Um, obviously you don't know very much about men. Once, not so long ago, a guy at work got my home phone number somehow, and proceeded to call me periodically at home. From the first time I made it clear I wasn't interested, and that I was LIVING WITH SOMEONE. He was very obtuse. He persisted in calling. See, he had to knock down a few bourbons to work up the courage to call, and evidently this dulled his memory a bit, because he never seemed to remember that I wasn't interested. Eventually it stopped, but it went on for years, literally. I didn't want to get Human Resources involved, yes, probably should have, but that was the decision I made. Technically he was WAY over the line, but was never obscene, never got physical, was mostly just an annoyance every couple of months. Anyway, just telling this harasser that the lady "has a boyfriend" is far from guaranteed to have the desired effect.

I'm not going to make this personal, but like Hal pointed out, you just painted every guy in the world with a very broad stroke. Besides, the above mentioned situation was perpetuated by not reporting what was clearly harassment to human resources.

[Nuclear Krusader]

So, now asking a bird out is sexual harassment?? I am speechless. But, yeah, I think it's true. And I also think some women should just tattoo on their foreheads "stay away."

I have a friend who works as a guard for a security company. He and a co-worker were deployed to this insurance business just across the street from where I live. There was a woman there the co-worker liked, and she seemed to like him as well. Well, one day he decides to send her flowers, and she goes to HR and complains about being sexually harassed. So the HR dept. phones the security company and the man is relocated to some other building. Absolutely ridiculous.

The woman was arguing to HR that she's married and has kids, but she never wore a band nor did she tell the guy about it (and from what I heard she doesn't act like a married woman in the very least). Wouldn't it have been way easier to just tell the man, "see, I'm actually married so don't do this again, please" rather than go and make a big fuss of it? Yeah, yeah, apparently that wouldn't have deterred him since somehow us men have a problem getting the message and have to be prosecuted in order to desist; yet, here's the best part: my friend told me that a few days later this particular woman was giving him flirtatious looks! What in hades?!

[glc]

Well, now that the thread has gone this direction, I'm going to say something that I chose to leave out of my previous post.

How do we know that she wasn't asking for it by HER actions? Simple - we DON'T. Is it possible? Heck yes. Did that happen in this case? We don't know. Sexual harassment works both ways. I have NO respect for a woman that flirts and teases a man, then blows the sexual harassment whistle when the man reciprocates...........

Gene, I hope for your sake your GF is not one of those.

[XenaWP]

Ok, there are some women who don't mind flirting or teasing. And there are some men who are obtuse and near-stalkers.

But I think, in a perfect world, men would not assume that any woman at work is interested, and rather than secretively find out her phone number and start calling, would be direct: walk up one day, say, "I'm interested in knowing you better. Can I call you some time?" That would be the right way to do it and I don't think ANY woman would cry "harassment" over it. And someone who would flirt and lead guys on, then claim harassment isn't a b**ch, she's psychotic.

I go to work to do a job, and have never given off any hints or clues to anyone to encourage this. I shouldn't need to tatoo anything on my forehead. This is a workplace, not a flippin singles bar.

[glc]

Xena, I believe we are on the same page here.

[EzyStvy]

As soon as I got transferred to another division, a co-worker that I “was” working with called and asked me out.

Did she harass me?
Did I harass her when I said sure?
How about the day we both said: “I DO!”

Oh the good old days when you could (((hug))) a co-worker when you found out she’s getting married or some other joyous event…

[David M]

Leave it to the lawyers, the judges and the brain dead jury's to make rules that circumvent common sense to ruin it for everyone.

[Kuch]

Despite the best intentions, work is for work; not for hooking up or letting people know you are interested in them. I side with the companies that levy harsh penalties for harassment. Sending flowers to someone at work is foolish unless that person is already involved with you. Asking someone out or even trying to figure out if there is interest is foolish if you do it on company time. If you like someone that much, talk to them in the parking lot or when they are out to lunch. Doing anything remotely like that at work is just asking for trouble.

And XenaWP, you probably should have called the cops on that guy along with going to HR about his antics.

[Markoman01027]

Originally Posted by glc Well, now that the thread has gone this direction, I'm going to say something that I chose to leave out of my previous post. How do we know that she wasn't asking for it by HER actions? Simple - we DON'T. Is it possible? Heck yes. Did that happen in this case? We don't know. Sexual harassment works both ways. I have NO respect for a woman that flirts and teases a man, then blows the sexual harassment whistle when the man reciprocates........... Gene, I hope for your sake your GF is not one of those.

George - It is very easy for the person who claims to be the victim to actually be the perpetrator. We often can concentrate on the actions from others and see how they effect us and ignoring the actions that we commit to others, and ignore how the other side feels.

Also, many times, we may have our biases towards our significant other, so we may automaticly listen to his or her story and believe it, without being open minded or fair to the other side.

Point is - Nobody knows what happened other than the people involved in the situation. The credibility of the victim and their trustworthyness play an important role in these kinds of cases.

[Rapier]

Originally Posted by XenaWP Ok, the OP said he was EXTREMELY angry. I'd guess it was more than a "hand on the shoulder" David. Then again, his screenname is Meangene, so maybe the other guy just looked down her cleavage ....

If there is cleavage it's there to be looked at.