Another CAR question

[SARGE]

Like we need another car question. About once a month the bug won't start - no slow cranking, just nada. Lights and all work and will jump start okay. I only drive 4 miles a day, so what little juice is used starting should be replinished. New battery, cables, but same problem for past year. Finally, doing my own test, I removed the positive lead from the battery and connected a voltmeter between lead and battery post. It read 10 volts. No clock radio running, which would only pull 1-2 volts anyway. So I have/had something pulling a drain even while car sitting still and key not in.

Ran it down to the alarm system. Even when not activated the sucker is pulling 10 volts. My question for those in the know is - I assume there has to be standing battery on the system, in order to respond to the remote button when pressed. But 10 volts? Running electrical problems is tricky, but when I isolate the culprit, I'd like to know if what I'm seeing is the way it should be. Their tech support just said, "HUH"? I'm assuming (dangerous) that this is the source of my drain.

[Larry E.]

Sarge:
When the car is running is the battery charging ok. It should run about 14 to 14 and a half volts. The way you are checking the voltage drain is ok but you need to check the amperage draw. A very small amp draw on a battery will show 10 or even 12 volts. If your meter has a amp setting you will see that it's probably not very much. A clock can give you a reading of 12 volts but the amperage would be measured in milleamps.

[mosquito]

It's known that alarms tend to drain the battery. There is no good solution except driving the car longer distances or purchase a battery conditioner.

[morriswindgate]

. "I only drive 4 miles a day, so what little juice is used starting should be replinished"

Sarge;
The amount of battery capacity used to start a modern engine will require between 15 to 20 miles to replinish for each start-up. Unless you are going to drive farther than 4 miles each day, you need to get a small trickle charger and put it on the battery over-night once a week. Additionally the trunk light can be a hidden problem because of the mercury swith that is used. It can be draining the battery, but at a rate low enough to not make the light bulb illuminate. So with your voltmeter connected disconnect the trunk light and see if the battery draw goes down.

[HAL9000]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree with you guys on the 4 miles not being enough. Just before I retired my wagon, I had an alternator belt break after picking my wife up from her normal office to take her to another office in the other end of town (about 5 miles and 1 start after unwrapping the leftovers of the belt from the fan blade). She drove me home, then went to the other office and shut the car off. After the meeting, she started the car and came home (about 3 miles). From there, we started the car again to take our daughter to dance class (about 3 miles). We took her in, then went back out to go buy a new belt. Started the car and went to the auto parts store (about 2 miles). Started the car from the auto parts store to go back to the dance class (2 miles back). Picked up our daughter, started the car again, went to McDonalds for supper (about 4 miles). Started the car to go home to replace the alternator belt (about 3 miles). Started the car again, just to make sure everything was A-OK.

So what do I have here. There was 8 times that I started the engine since there was no power being supplied from the alternator and the car ran for about 22 miles of city (stop and go) driving and not once did that 307 CID engine grunt turning over with the 14 year old 600 Amp battery. The headlights were even used since dropping off my daughter at dance class (about 11 miles of city driving), the power seat was used as my wife adjusted the sear for herself (all the way to the front), then I re-adjusted it for myself (all the way back) as were the power door locks when arriving at each place. The radio was on the whole time and the heater/airconditioning fan running at low speed as there is no off position for it.

If I can do all of that and not even notice my headlights dim, there is no reason why I don't think that Sarge should be dying out after 4 miles a day driving.

[glc]

Leave the battery cables hooked up and check the voltage across the terminals - a fully charged battery should read about 12.4 volts - and with the engine running should read from 13.8 to 14.4 volts. Now - a VW Bug doesn't have a trunk light that I know of, it's a pretty simple and basic electrical system. I would really go with the theory that 4 miles a day is not enough. You need to get that thing out on the freeway once a week or use a trickle charger.

If you want to see if anything is drawing it down, you would disconnect the positive cable and use an ammeter capable of switching down to a milliamp scale, not a voltmeter. (The other option is leaving the cable hooked up and using an ammeter with an inductive clamp around the battery cable). I had this issue many years ago on a Ford Maverick, and using an ammeter I found that the aftermarket cruise control was drawing current through its brain box.

[PardeGT]

If by chance you don't need the alarm when its parked at home/work (ie-in a garage) then you could put a toggle switch on the alarm power using it only when needed.

[SARGE]

Thanks, those are excellent points. I used to fish 3 nights a week, which involved a 20 mile round trip down the highway, which validates that option. My bug uses a generator instead of a generator, and my coffee shop banter says a generator won't charge as quickly as an alternator. Like the idea of a toggle switch. My main beef is that I don't get the normal slow moaning sound a low battery makes prior to going dead. I like that warning sound as it usually means maybe one more start, buddy. An early warning.

I'll get a toggle, an ammeter (maybe Christmas), and be sure I don't go anywhere I may not want wifey to come give me a jump.


BTW, a pair of panty hose make a good temporary fan belt, long as you don't have to go forever. Don't laugh, I saw it in Popular Mechanics years ago and tried it once when I had a belt off on purpose. Just tie a good knot, AND be ready to explain why there is a pair of them under your seat.

[RayH]

Check the brushes on your generator. They may need replacing.

All the alarm does is to make noise. I used to have a bug. If you have a pre-1968 Bug, those things are easy to steal. I can start one in your driveway while you are hollering at me from your front door! Yes, that quickly! Later models require 30 seconds more time!

First, get a lock for your engine compartment. Pull the coil wire to the distributor or put a cut off on the hot side of the coil wire when you park the car. Lock the engine compartment!

If you want to get serious for the out of the way places, get a chain and lock for the hood. Get a two way valve (like the kind used on motorcyles). Turn that off and chain the hood!

Get a Club. An immitation one is OK. In my day, I used a CROOK LOCK. It was a similar product that hooked the steering wheel to the clutch!

People had broken into my Bug. But it never moved one foot unauthorized...except when towed for illegal parking!

[SARGE]

I have a keyed lock for engine compartment, but anyone with a crowbar could defeat it. Have used the Crook Lock for years. I have a bug, not an armored car. The idea of any preventive device is to slow the creep down or deter his even contemplating a break-in. Only reason I use any of them is because the bug sits outside at night, while the van and truck rest comfortable inside. I'd hate for the bug to feel it's being left out as bait

[HAL9000]

So Sarge, ever get it worked out?

[RayH]

People used to try to steal my '67 Bug all the time. In san Francisco, push starting is very easy...the whole city is nothing but hills.....

But the various locks and cut off switches saved the day for me. They'd move on to steal another Bug or something!

[SARGE]

Hal, thanks for asking. glc is on to something, I'm sure, about using an ammeter, but I still use the voltage draw routine. All my asking around has indicated a 2-3 volt draw is no big deal (modern-day car clock/radios pull that much), but a 10 volt is a problem. The kicker is that no one can verify if the alarm system is supposed to pull that, even when not activated. Without the specs, I don't know if it's the problem or not. I've decided that the distance I travel each day is nil, I use the headlights this time of year (drawing the battery even more), and all aspects of charging system are ok. Since I only have this problem during winter months, and thus requiring lights, and a vw generator does not recharge as quickly as an alternator, I'll take glc's advice and put it on a trickle charger on Sundays. I don't like this, as by nature I'm a troubleshooter and like to "point" to the culprit.

If Intel would design a gadget like a solar powered doodad that trickles the battery while parked, I'd buy it.

[glc]

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://www.jcwhitney.com/catsubpic.j...D=3110&BQ=jcw2

[Kubie]

Sarge,
There is a small electrical tool that I've seen in many a mechanic's toolbox. Its about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
When a customer would come in with an electrical problem such as yours, he would hold this gadget close to a wire harness and move it slowly along. Any short or electrical drain would show on the small meter. It did its thing by measuring the electric field around any electrical gadget on the car including all wires. I've watched them find a short in the middle of a harness without cutting it apart. Trouble is, I can't remember the name of it.
Maybe a talk with a good mechanic about it would do the trick.
Carl

[HAL9000]

LOL... JC Whitney is still around! Yup, that might be an idea for you though Sarge. Check the local auto parts stores, we have solar powered battery chargers available at our local Canadian Tire. You could go there and that shoudl be long enough of a drive to charge the battery

[SARGE]

Carl, thanks. I've already id'd the source of the draw and I like the concept of that tool.

glc, is there anything you DON'T have a link to? Thanks, and now to get out pen and paper:

Dear Santa...