New builders and XP

[highrisemech]

Hi everybody,

I would just like to comment about a lot of the new builders and all the problems they then run into with XP. First of all I would like to say that I am not trying to discourage anyone from trying to take a step forward with XP in fact it is to the contrary. Secondly I am not trying to knock the XP operating system I do feel that this is the system that will be the most prolific in the near future. I do though honestly feel that if you are building a system for the first time that you should start with an operating system that has most of the bugs worked out so that you can get your system up and running quickly and conveniently. the fact is that XP poses issues for some of the most avid computer users particulary when it comes to getting add on cards and programs to work properly with the XP system. A lot of the cards that are on the market require XP updated drivers designed especially to work with the xp operating system, where as that most of the hardware on the maket is already sold with windows98/ME drivers. This is just one of many issues relating to this. another point is that even most of the advanced users are still learning to work out issues with equiptment and programs. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you are a new builder and want to get your system up and running efficiently as quickly as possible with the least amount of issues. I would recommend one of the older operating systems eg.. Windows 98 / ME Then if you are comfortable with how things are going you could always upgrade to XP.
Ultimatly the choice is yours and if you want to be adventurous and go straight to XP that's OK to. Besides where would the world be without trailblazers. This is just a general feeling I get from reading all the XP posts over the past two months and I thought I would share it with all of you. I welcome your comments pro and con.

[glc]

I agree 100%. Windows 98SE is the BEST compromise between ease of configuration, hardware support, maintenance, and capabilities. I never cared for ME and Win2000 is for more advanced users.

[highrisemech]

I would just like to add another point that choosing an operating system should really depend on the skill level of the user plus what applications you plan to run on the computer. Some operating systems have advantages and disadvatages when it comes to this. This should be taken into consideration when choosing.

[Statica]

In addition to it all, patience is a much needed virtue with ANYTHING new.
Be it new hardware or new software. Most of what ires you could also be attributed to the changes in interface, especially when the hitherto tried and tested methods are suddenly changed around for the user. The general rule of thumb that I use and which I guage an OS by are, in particular order-
STABILITY (I'd give XP an 'A'/'A+'), SECURITY (I'd give it a 'B-/C') and PERFORMANCE (B). And that should perhaps be the way on how to fine tune your system, strive for stability and then reach performance from there. Give your h/w mfgers time to come out with decent performing drivers for your h/w before you make a judgement of your OS.

[troysvihl]

I don't get it. What's so complicated with installing any of the Windows software? I've installed most of them, and I don't see much more difficulty between 98 or XP or 2000.

I've never attempted to install non-MS OS's, so maybe Linux and the rest are harder. And I can understand the current situation with XP, where there hasn't been enough time to work out all the kinks. But in 6 months, XP will be just as easy to install as the rest.

Am I missing something? How is 2000 any harder to install than 98? You slipp the CD in, and follow the instructions. What's so difficult about that?

Once installed, they all pretty much behave the same. Sure there are features in 2000 that aren't in 98, but if you're not advanced enough to use them, they still don't make it any more difficult to use. You simply leave those features alone. All the configuration stuff that's important to the novice user (hardware drivers and other stuff in the config folder) is still in the same places and works pretty much the same.

[glc]

Troy - you are in the "advanced users" category. We have a lot of members here who don't know what file extensions are, much less a command prompt or how to use it. We need to keep this in mind.

[Demosthenes]

I am kind of disappointed in XP. While I was not expecting it, I was secretly hoping for some revolutionary operating system. Something equivalent to the magnitude of change from DOS to Win3x, or at least 3x to 95. But, Microsoft has everyone so well trained that such a change would not be taken lightly. I understand a little about non-computer users; one of my semi-part time jobs was fixing screen savers and pushing icons around. It never ceased to amaze me how things I took for granted absolutely awed others. I was like the computer magician who was there to ohhh and ahhh them. It used to be that if someone even mentioned a computer term, it was assumed he or she was reasonably well versed. Sometimes I think it would be better that way, but then again, there would not be as many screen savers to fix if everyone knew what they were doing.

Respectfully,

Demosthenes

[reboot]

Demosthenes, well put.
I too, am in the (un)enviable position of being thought of as a "computer god".
What I do every day, and take for granted, seems to totally awe some users. The idea that I can actually move an icon on the desktop, and make it stay there through a restart, simply overwhelms some.
I don't consider myself an expert in anything, but more like a well versed user of many things.
Opinions are formed (or at lease, they SHOULD be formed) by experience, not hearsay. If some of my opinions are valued by others, it's a compliment. If my opinion is not valued by others, I like them to speak up, and tell me why. That way, I learn, they learn, and I just might reformat (sic) my opinion.

Rating XP:
STABILITY (I'd give XP an 'A'/'A+'),
SECURITY (I'd give it a 'B') and
PERFORMANCE (A).
This is compared to Windows98, and Mandrake 8.1 on the same system.
(See, I told you this was just my opinion!)

[troysvihl]

glc - yeah, i know that some users don't know what file extensions are or command prompts. But how does that make 2000 any more difficult to set up or use than 98?

[glc]

2000 (as does XP) uses the NT security model. Us as experienced users prefer this, but the concept of "users" and "login" is way beyond a lot of folks. How many posts have you seen here with people asking how to get rid of the login box? "Gee - I never set a password - how come it's asking for one now?" 2000 doesn't even have msconfig - and editing the registry is enough to scare 75% of my customers. Windows 98 is easy and unobtrusive. M$ is trying to make XP as user friendly as 98 with XP Home, and they have a ways to go yet.

Yes, I know there are ways to get around most of this stuff with 2000, but the new user hasn't a clue how. I won't sell a Windows 2000 system to a newbie - 98SE all the way here. I sell a lot of Win2K systems to business users who are used to using a network.

[highrisemech]

Again I'm not really trying to dump on anything, just merely trying to get a point across. One of the main facts being that it can be difficult to get hardware woking with this sytem for a newbie since they may not realize that
the driver base across the board is still in developement for that matter so is the XP operating system. In this I do not feel that I am comparing apples and oranges at least not yet. All I'm saying is if you are a newbie and want to get your system up and running with the least amount of issues I'm recommending 98SE or ME because all the hardware manufacturers have not as of yet developed
drivers. I appreciate the comments about this thus far as this may help the new builders.

[troysvihl]

if the concept of "login" and "users" is "way beyond them", then they certainly aren't going to be able to build a new system. (since we are talking about confusion for new builders) They're going to go to Best Buy and buy some crappy Compaq, HP, etc.

BTW, I must still be a newbie, because I have no idea what msconfig is. And I know OF editing the registry but have never acctually attempted it. And I've been using 2000 for over a year, so knowing what msconfig is and editing the registry can't be prereqs for using 2000. (acctually just jumped ship to XP)

[highrisemech]

login and user has nothing at all to do with the point I'm trying to make. It is the fact that there are not updated drivers across the board.

[troysvihl]

i was responding to glc.

As far as updated drivers, yeah I agree on that point. But in the case of XP, that's only a temporary reason to disuade new builders from using XP. And it simply doesn't apply to Win 2000 anymore because all the Win 2000 drivers have pretty much been released.

[highrisemech]

My mistake sorry. I still welcome comments pro and con to benefit the new builders.....

[reboot]

New builders who have not used any previous MS OS, would benefit from XP.
New builders who are used to Windows9x should stick with 9x.
New builders who are ONLY used to windows ME, should get XP.
New builders who are not used to any previous OS, should consider other alternatives, even as a multi-boot, although I NEVER recommend a multi-boot scenario to any of my customers. It's 98SE all the way, although I'm migrating to XP for some of my customers, those who can "handle" it, and those that don't go screwing it up by listening to bad advice from their (insert favourite relative/neighbour here).

[Terrorbyte]

I guess all negative comments are placed by those that either don't have XP, have read about a problem or two with it, or simply don't know how to use it to get the best out of it, or a combination of the lot.
I use it and I reckon it's brilliant !!!
I have had (1) one problem when I loaded a 98 driver for my scanner, apart from that it has been PERFECT.
And if anyone knew about all the tens of thousands of bugs in 95-98-ME etc they would avoid them like the plague, as they should.
Whats your problems ? it does work better, faster, and is more user friendly.


Dont knock it if your not using it +10hrs every day as I am.

Bahh humbug. "W/XP in my AMD XP still rules"