Shooting

[mbossman2]

Anyone here into handgun shooting?

Please PM me

(I'd rather not have this thread devolve into a gun control debate - so George/HAL etc go ahead and lock this hard and fast if this even shows a hint that we are headed in that direction)

[EzyStvy]

Its a safe thread considering we're all adults here and you've ask to not go down a certain road.

I own a dozen fire arms - two if which are hand guns.

[mbossman2]

Any advice as to 1st handgun? (my wife and I will be doing this together)

I have been reading other forums and the advice is as varied as individuals...so my specific questions are:

- What caliber should I start out with? I have seen some say .22LR, others say go ahead and get the gun size you want (9MM, .40 or .45).

- Any advice as to make?

- Anything I should look to avoid? (in make/model, instructor, or range?)

- Any other general advice?

[jessho]

Personally, a small caliber has an advantage for starting due to the lack of recoil and the cost of the ammunition. You can spend hours shooting a 22, which won't crunch your wallet and develop your shooting skills, without recoil. Recoil has ruined many a shooter.

Best shooting, IMO, is metal silouette. In competition, the silouettes are knocked down, but this is tedious on a range, or a rural area. My brother built one that would swing out of rebar, pipe and metal plate. With a little white paint, you can shoot, see your hits and spent more time shooting, instead of walking to set the silouettes back up.

I'd avoid large calibers, unless that's what you want. They're awesome to shoot, but controlling the critters is something to deal with.

When you purchase your gun, don't hesitate to get custom grips. Fatter grips are good if you have large hands. Smaller hands do better with smaller grips. Either way, the more comfortable the grip, the better the shooting. Automatics are preferred, usually, although a revolver won't cut the web of your thumb if you don't hold it correctly.

Don't forget ear, and eye protection. Throw away ear plugs work, and some prefer them, since they stay in and you won't forget to put them back on while shooting. A large caliber handgun can cause your ears to ring for days.

[EzyStvy]

What is the main goal? Fun on the weekend or mainly personal protection.

Everything jessho mentioned was great advice....BUT, if you're also wanting protection - a 22 ain't gonna cut it.

A revolver is an idiot proof gun. You can get them a bit dirty and not worry about mal functioning. Less moving parts, easy to load etc. Good old .38cal would be good.

A 9mm with a 15 round clip is almost three times more rounds available to you for protection.

If you just wanna plink tin cans on the weekend - a 22 cal rifle is much more fun then a pistol. (you can hit more with a rifle)

[Kuch]

After 18+ years of shooting various weapons and having negotiated the “first purchase” for a number of friends and their significant others, I’d suggest you and your wife visit a shooting range/gun store where you can try out different guns and figure out what will fit both of you best. Unless your hands are the same size as hers, there won’t be a single pistol that fits you both the same.

Plus, I’d suggest you both attend a safe shooter/safe hunter (or whatever it is called in your area) course. Being smart about weapons safety is more critical than being a proficient shooter. Plus, I’d bet that the more she knows about weapon safety and shooting principles will help ease any concerns she harbors.

Last but not least, do a ton of homework. A lot of people rush out and buy the first pistol they find and generally pay too much for an inferior product. Everyone as their own opinion about which pistol is the best, but knowing and understanding people’s opinions goes a long ways towards helping you make your decision. If your wife plans to shoot, ask other women as a shooting range what pistol they started out with.

If you’re just looking for something for home defense, I’d suggest a .380. The ammo is cheap and you won’t have to worry about a round leaving your house and going through the neighbor’s.

Beretta and Sig are both good quality, though you will see it in the price tag.

[mbossman2]

we are both scheduled for the NRA Beginners pistol course (May 8).

This is for fun not home defense (if I decide to go that route, I won't screw around, it'll be a 12guage shotgun).

as for price: as this is the 1st time I will be aiming (pardon the pun) to a lower cost firearm. No high end/high $$$ models for me (but in the future, who knows?)

[EzyStvy]

12 guage shotgun is great for around the house protection. You'll be less likely to take out a neighbor if you mis the bad guy

Kuch's advice for going to a range and renting some of their guns is perfect advice.

[XenaWP]

For fun, I love shooting a .22. I have a Ruger Mk II semi-auto. It's a blast to shoot. A 9-round revolver would be a good choice too.

As a woman with small hands, I have fired most handguns, refusing only to shoot a .44 Magnum. I can fire a .357 Magnum well, but it's uncomfortable for me after about 12 rounds. I enjoy .38 Special snubnose revolvers and own a few. I own and LOVE a Colt .45 auto. I also own a 9 mm S&W, but the recoil on that is unpleasant to me ... perhaps bec. of the size of the gun, it ends up almost pointed at my forehead after I shoot a round.

The safety class is a great idea, they typically let you shoot in the last class and you may get to try a few different guns. The rent several at a firing range is also a great idea.

Take your time in making a selection.

[Bob338]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 we are both scheduled for the NRA Beginners pistol course (May 8). This is for fun not home defense (if I decide to go that route, I won't screw around, it'll be a 12guage shotgun). as for price: as this is the 1st time I will be aiming (pardon the pun) to a lower cost firearm. No high end/high $$$ models for me (but in the future, who knows?)

I'm a certified Range Safety Officer, work at our local range, was in law enforcement in my youth and "dabble" in firearms, and have for about 70 years.

When I started my wife out I bought her a 22 S&W revolver. As someone pointed out revolvers are idiot proof, you don't use ammo quite as rapidly as in a semi-auto and you'd have to consider them a fun, plinking type firearm.

As far as manufacturer, it's hard to fault Smith & Wesson and they are widely available both new and used. That's what I bought for my wife some 40 years ago before she graduated in 9mm in a semi-auto. A semi-auto isn't as tedious to reload but you have to be much more familiar with the operation of the gun to know when a round is chambered or not. Pistols of any kind can be very unsafe in the hands of a novice or inattentive handler as the muzzle can wave around easily in the handling and pointed at persons nearby. Any complications with a jam in a semi-auto raise safety concerns which is why I'd recommend a revlover. There are a number of foreign made pistols that are also good and a bit less expensive than a Smith if you are going to buy a new one (which I'd recommend,) and I've personally had good luck with Taurus but I've heard reasonable things about Rossi as well. For a starter weapon just go for price if you're buying a revolver. Chances are you'lll get all your money back on resale, particularly for the higher end ones. I would not buy a used foreign semi-auto.

I'd still recommend an S&W revolver. You'll be able to get your money back on it and will be worth more as time goes by even if you have to put out and extre few dollars to get one. Good luck.

[edfair]

It has been a long time since I did my gunning but Xena hit on a good one, the Ruger. I spent many days with one using standard velocity ammo for the comfort.

Larger bores end up with larger kicks. My 45ACP 1911A1 made me sore after about 20 rounds. Anything larger than a 38 will probably be too much for your wife.

Be forewarned, owning guns is like owning computers, you can't get by on just one.

You may find yellow tint glasses the best choice for eye protection.

[EzyStvy]

I've owned several Ruger guns and realy liked them They are high quality in the mid price range. Had a matching pair 9mm and 45cal at one point. Had a little stubnose/2" barrel - 5 round 38/357 cannon. If you didn't hit the bad guy with the 357rounds - you scared him to death. Then there was the Mini 30 (762x39) which was a sweet rifle.

[Force Flow]

Smaller caliber ammo/guns are usually less expensive, so if you plan on going shooting with some degree of frequency, you might want to keep that in mind.

[BigRed CC Dually]

Originally Posted by XenaWP For fun, I love shooting a .22. I have a Ruger Mk II semi-auto. It's a blast to shoot. A 9-round revolver would be a good choice too. As a woman with small hands, I have fired most handguns, refusing only to shoot a .44 Magnum. I can fire a .357 Magnum well, but it's uncomfortable for me after about 12 rounds. I enjoy .38 Special snubnose revolvers and own a few. I own and LOVE a Colt .45 auto. I also own a 9 mm S&W, but the recoil on that is unpleasant to me ... perhaps bec. of the size of the gun, it ends up almost pointed at my forehead after I shoot a round. The safety class is a great idea, they typically let you shoot in the last class and you may get to try a few different guns. The rent several at a firing range is also a great idea. Take your time in making a selection.

I agree 100%...the bull barrel version has the heft and feel of a 1911 Colt 45ACP so it makes for a great practice gun as .22 is very cheep to shoot. The bull barrel target version is extremely accurate for as inexpensive a gun it is. The only negative is that it is a lil' time consuming to clean thoroughly but you will get the hang of it. It's a wonderful 1st gun and one that you will want to hold on to also, plus it makes a good learning gun for when you want to step up to something more powerful. Good luck on what ever you choose but you can hardly go wrong with the gun XenaWP suggested.

[sgtspector]

As a retired police officer and department firearms instructor and currently working for a large sporting goods retailer in the firearms department I have to agree with most of the suggestions above. Starting out with a .22 is a good idea. Among those already suggested I would suggest the Browning Buckmarks as a possibility. There are several models in different configurations to fit a lot of different shooters. I would also second the shotgun for home defense (buckshot, not a slug) but you may want to consider a 20 ga if you feel your wife won't be able to handle a 12 ga. With some practice I think almost anyone can handle a shotgun but if she's not comfortable with it she may not use it and if she does she may not be very effective with it. Also be careful not to fall into the trap of trying to buy the one guy that will do it all for you. If you get bitten by the bug this will not be your last purchase. If you want to really enjoy shooting at a reasonable price the .22 is the way to go. But for personal protection either in the home or out it is not the way to go. As far as what to avoid brand-wise if you see anything with the name Bersa on it get away from it. I would also not recommend a Taurus semi-automatic or the smith and wesson sigma series. If you do buy something other than a .22 I would steer you towards Sig Sauer, Walther, Smith and Wesson ( except the sigma's) and the FNHUSA FNP models for a semi-automatic. For a revolver Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Colt (if you can find them) or Taurus. If you decide to get a 1991 style pistol get a Kimber and you will never regret it. Hope this was helpful.

[SARGE]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 we are both scheduled for the NRA Beginners pistol course (May 8). This is for fun not home defense (if I decide to go that route, I won't screw around, it'll be a 12guage shotgun). as for price: as this is the 1st time I will be aiming (pardon the pun) to a lower cost firearm. No high end/high $$$ models for me (but in the future, who knows?)

I've had so many. Uncle gave me an M-14 and M-16 rifles and a .45 pistol plus a grenade launcher and an 81mm mortar so have had macho firing experience. For my person have had a 22 rifle, a 38 and 357 plus a 12 gauge. Got rid of them when was found in compromising positions I had no clue how I got in. My opinion is they all have one mission...nothing positive. To rebut an earlier post, a 22 is ok for home defense. It makes noise and shoots a hole that says howdy. Shotguns are messy. For fun, especially with both of you shooting, get something you can reload the ammo for - you will save mucho bucks and enjoy it more. At least I could back in the 70s. All THEY let me get now is a BB gun unless go to a gun show which I won't. I hate guns, but doesn't mean I don't know them inside out. Revolvers, my used to be favorite, are safer 'cause you can see the bullets. I wouldn't have a semi-auto 'cause you can't see what's going on but others will promote how much faster you can shoot, meaning more bullets that cost money and more moving parts to fail. Enjoy, bossman, and always remember be safe.

[Khalil]

I own 1911s 38 super. I used to own 45s but the 38 super is a much better round in my opinion and definately more accurate due to the much lower recoil. The 1911 is still my favorite hand gun because it is very fast being single action and the double safety on it is really a great feature.

[XenaWP]

Yeah, ammo prices are something to consider for a hobby. Last time I bought some, a brick (500 rds) of .22 long rifle was going for about $12 at gun shows. Even if it has doubled, that's a lot of shooting for a trifle of a cost.

And to second BigRed's words, yes, absolutely, the bull barrel version of the Ruger Mk II is da bomb. Very accurate, very easy to hold and aim, and annoying to clean until you've done it about 10 times and learn the tricks of easy dis/assembly. Mine is the 5.5" bull barrel.

[mbossman2]

I have been kicking around the Ruger Mark III and the Beretta U22 Neos (that's one freaky looking pistol).

I am leaning towards the Beretta as it appears to be much easier to breakdown and clean than any of the others

Both are in the ~$300 range and if, after doing it for a while, I find it's not for me (or us), I am sure that it can be liquidated fairly quickly and recover some of the expense.

[SARGE]

Originally Posted by mbossman2 I have been kicking around the Ruger Mark III and the Beretta U22 Neos (that's one freaky looking pistol). I am leaning towards the Beretta as it appears to be much easier to breakdown and clean than any of the others Both are in the ~$300 range and if, after doing it for a while, I find it's not for me (or us), I am sure that it can be liquidated fairly quickly and recover some of the expense.

What do you want - defense, and a hobby? Both can be inclusive so I'd go that route. I still like revolvers. To me, if I could buy again, choice would be a Ruger .44 Magnum. Shot it before and if the thing would take down a Grizzly it works for me. Any firearm with a clip, I don't want to be around though. I've seen too many accidents with clips. Local gun shop has holes in his ceiling he refuses to fix. Reason being to show the idiots who walk in with a supposedly "unloaded" gun, all clips. I have my own stories that go way back, even to the military .45 with its clip and guys who blew their knees or balls off in the middle of the night.

[mbossman2]

ok a little update.

the wife and I took the NRA First Step Pistol class over the weekend. Very enlightening and enjoyable.

The class was small (3, they do a maximum of 4 for this class) and the instructors (Barry and Martie @ http://www.apdsnc.com/) were fun, knowledgeable and patient.

Once Jen got over jumping every time the trigger was pulled, she settled down and shot pretty well. Her last string was 19/20 into a paper plate @ 5 yards and everything was within a 5 inch circle.

I seemed to do pretty well I shot 3 inch groups at the same distance.

During the class we each had an opportunity to fire a:

Browning Buckmark (10 shot semi auto)
Taurus Tracker (9 shot revolver)
Walter P22 (10 shot semi - it looks like a smaller version of the current James Bond gun)
Ruger MKIII (also a 10 shot semi)
Beretta NEOS (another 10 shot semi).

After all of those, Jen decided that she really liked the revolver (which sent one of the instructor into an orgasmic level of happiness - I guess folks don't gravitate towards revolvers) and I have narrowed it down to the Browning Buckmark; the NEOS felt "cheap" - the slide rattled and with all the plastic it felt more like a toy than anything and the Ruger, while shooting well, was a colossal PITA to disassemble and clean (Martie owned one and she stated that when it comes time to really clean the gun she takes it to a gunsmith and lets them do it *yikes!*).

I ran down yesterday to the Sheriff's department and filed the necessary paperwork to obtain "pistol purchase" permits which is an NCIC check so the "normal" waiting period is waived) and those should be ready next week.

yeah us!

[EzyStvy]

Once Jen got over jumping every time the trigger was pulled, she settled down and shot pretty well.

Spewed coffee all over my monitor on that one.

Did you shoot anything further away then five yards?

I was just thinking the other day that I'm long over due for a trip the range...My favorite is an outdoor range. It's a good forty miles away but is more enjoyable then the indoor ones that are a fraction of the distance.

[mbossman2]

I asked and the instructors said that 5 yards is as far as they wanted "noobs" to shoot as the further you got away, the more likely you were to put a shot over the berm and while he thought that unlikely (the berm was high enough and there was a thick stand of trees beyond) he didn't want his neighbors to get a "howdy!" shot on this fine saturday afternoon.

[XenaWP]

I jumped every time a shot was fired my first 5 times at the range lol

I think the revolver is a great choice, and I own a Taurus .38 snubby, bought in the early 90s. Hopefully they are still of excellent quality. They started as a sort of OEM to S&W, so their revolver designs were top notch.

That Ruger is not too bad to disassemble (really, you follow the instructions the first few times, then never need them again). The trick is in reassembly ... there is a point at which it is majorly aggravating to get one of the parts to go into place, but there is a trick to it that the manual doesn't mention. You have to tilt the whole assembly upward, like you're aiming at the ceiling ... this causes the little hangy part to tilt backward and then the part goes right in. I bet that's where the instructor gets hung up. Everyone does.

Anyway, the revolver will be a delight to shoot and clean, is mechanically simple, will last forever, and will always be fun.

Enjoy!

[MaxRat]

for personal protection the revolver is actually the best choice...

a shotgun or a handgun with a slide action is not a good choice unless mods are made to the slide of the handgun...

a shotgun for personal protection is just too long and if by some change an attacker gets the jump on you...well you get the idea...most times they are close enough to touch by the time you see them...it isnt like on TV...

I have an elcheapo 380 larson that I used to carry until I learned just how impractical a slide action handgun is...

My dad passed me down a few guns and I really like them...I like to go out skeet shooting and take the kids out and teach them about guns and lets not forget hunting...although I dont do any...

I have a nice Marlin 12 gauge that I got from a friend...My dad gave me a Marlin 30/30 and a 4.10/22 over and under that shoots .22LR and it a very sweet shooting gun

I also have a nice JC Higgins .22 semi-auto that I really like...none of them have been fired in over 15 years...even my handgun...

[shadowpr]

Originally Posted by EzyStvy Spewed coffee all over my monitor on that one. Did you shoot anything further away then five yards? I was just thinking the other day that I'm long over due for a trip the range...My favorite is an outdoor range. It's a good forty miles away but is more enjoyable then the indoor ones that are a fraction of the distance.

There's an outdoor range in Garland that I go to. It's really good for skeet, and they have a rifle section, and a handgun section.

[edfair]

Consider a sawed-off shotgun. They are easier to handle.

So far as the automatic vs revolver for protection, the sound of the A1 slide clanking shut has to create some trepidation on the part of an intruder. But it comes down to personal choice and understanding the threats you face.

[mbossman2]

Originally Posted by edfair Consider a sawed-off shotgun. They are easier to handle.

they're also illegal as hell

[EzyStvy]

No they aren't. There's a limit to how much you can saw off... but...

Pretty sure all of these have 20" barrels.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/stoe...ms-c-6225.html

[MaxRat]

I always wanted a pistol gripped Mossberg....

and a trench coat to match...ha ha