Crap, leave me alone

[SARGE]

At my age is nice knowing everything I ate and drank all my life has been bad for me. Nobody gets out of here alive anyway. Why don't they just quit all their studies? No burgers, hotdogs, bacon, sausage. I suggest they are the ones who need to get a life and leave us alone.

Sausage and cancer: Pancreatic cancer warning over processed meat | Mail Online

[David M]

There will always be one group or another proclaiming that this or that food is bad for you in order to get their 15 minutes of fame. And then of course some other group will claim the opposite in a few years.

Remember when it was coffee?

I'm trying to remember what other foods went from being bad and then back to being okay.

It's all about eating in moderation. Too much of anything is bad for you....even water.

[HAL9000]

A guy I used to work with used to be a real "health nut" and chow down vitamins like candy... would literally see him taking at least a dozen different types at lunch and he said he did that three times a day and "felt great".. I told him though your body only needs so much, the rest your liver needs to filter out.. well, 20+ years later of chowing down supplements.. it happened, he's on a transplant wait list... he destroyed his liver.

[David M]

I have read the same thing, your body only needs so much of the different vitamins, the rest you pee out. It's much the same as putting more gas into an already full tank.

[rwest]

At one time I heard hamburger causes some kind of cancer. That's when I said phooey, everthing in the world must be somehow related to dying early. So I went and ate my favorite 'the ultimate cheese burger' on sourdough bread.
Haven't thought twice about cancer since then.

I did have a doctor tell me I was better off maintaining a weight than constantly dieting. I do that better than dieting. I sure hope he's right. Although I have snuck up there again, I guess that's not consisdered maintaining.


On the vitamins. Yeh thats kinda how the energy drinks work. At least what was explained to me. The niacin and B6 levels are raised beyond what the body needs, so your body wants to burn off the excess. The body will just use what's there until its gone, therefore you get the crash after the burn.

I remember my dad telling me about vitamins. He said they're great if your working out because your body will burn 'em up. But people who take them everyday will feel the effect of not having them when they miss a day. Dad said vitamins are good for you, but you shouldn't rely on them for daily tasks. Dad said once a week is more than enough if your not excerising heavy or doing strenuous work.

[bob]

Originally Posted by rwest At one time I heard hamburger causes some kind of cancer. That's when I said phooey, everthing in the world must be somehow related to dying early. So I went and ate my favorite 'the ultimate cheese burger' on sourdough bread. Haven't thought twice about cancer since then. I did have a doctor tell me I was better off maintaining a weight than constantly dieting. I do that better than dieting. I sure hope he's right. Although I have snuck up there again, I guess that's not consisdered maintaining.

The doctor is right. Yet, if you do want to get really old like 90+ you need to be thin. Just look at people over 100. I have never seen anyone that was over weight.

[rwest]

That's true. It's well known that heavy people will die sooner. It's more work for all the organs to keep up.

I'm pretty sure my cause of death will most likely be related to the local donut shop. Hey I wonder if I could get a lawsuit started before I croak?

[SARGE]

A plumber unclogged a septic tank. The plug was a wad of vitamins, and you could still read the name on the tablets. I won't mention the brand, but you've heard of it.

[rwest]

That's pretty amazing. How long were those vitamins under water?

[SARGE]

My question also. He had no reason to fib, just said he had a fistfull of pills and could read the name. Imagine a handful of something like M&Ms clogging your drain. Why didn't you get the benefit of the product?

[juppy]

I have to agree with rwest about everything causing you to die sooner. It really does seem that way anymore. Pretty much any meat is bad for you in some way, except maybe fish, and even with that you have the mercury levels to watch out for.....eggs were good then bad then good again in moderation, then bad, now maybe one a day is okay....AARRGH!!!.....it doesn't end. Next up they'll say the air you breathe is killing you too. They just need to leave me alone with my jumbo chili cheese dog and glazed donut and go tell somebody else how they're gonna die before they hit 60. I may die sooner, but I'll die happy.

As for those vitamins, I used to take a multivitamin once a day for quite a while, but one week I ran out (didn't notice the bottle was low) and quite frankly, I couldn't tell any difference in the way I felt, good or bad, so I stopped taking them. And the energy drinks have just the opposite effect on me. Most people it gives them a boost....me?...I've tried 3 different ones and each of 'em made me feel like I'd been out on an all night drinking spree. Headache, fatigue, and this jittery nervous feeling.....never understood why they made me feel like crap, but never tried another one since then.

[doubledragon5]

I do not care what they say in their studies.. I eat any thing and everything, that doesn't eat me first....I eat more junk at work, than I care to mention.. But we all will die of something.. At least when I die, it won't be on a empty stomach...

[David M]

It's true, there are no really old fat people.

Vitamins might need stomach acid or enzymes to dissolve...I don't know.

[SARGE]

Gal bud and I concentrating on removing all oil from our food and any kind of meat. Includes olive oil, vegetable oil, soybean oil. Oil is oil and will plug the arteries. I used to tell my docs we have no family history of heart disease. Well, my 58 year old brother passed in Sept from clogged arteries and my other brother 54 had the quadruple bypass last week from clogged arteries. Doc said he was a walking miracle. Had no symptoms. So there is a history now.

[rwest]

Not that I know moderation, but I would think just about evrything can be had in moderation and one could still live a long healthy life.

Now in cases like mine(dont know about yours sarge), I'm sure cutting back would be helpful, but eliminating a susbsatnce completely; I wouldn't think will do any more good than just cutting back.

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by SARGE Gal bud and I concentrating on removing all oil from our food and any kind of meat. Includes olive oil, vegetable oil, soybean oil. Oil is oil and will plug the arteries. I used to tell my docs we have no family history of heart disease. Well, my 58 year old brother passed in Sept from clogged arteries and my other brother 54 had the quadruple bypass last week from clogged arteries. Doc said he was a walking miracle. Had no symptoms. So there is a history now.

Olive oil is actually good for you in moderation. Butter is the really bad thing.

Personally, maybe it's because I'm young, but I'd rather enjoy life and die sooner than really carefully watch what I eat and give up things like steak and mashed potatoes. If there's a healthier alternative that tastes just as good (my fiancee got some great turkey burger recipes from the Biggest Loser cookbooks), I'll eat it, but if there's not, I'll die a couple years younger.

About the only thing I care about is my weight. I've gained 30-35 lbs in the last year (moved in a year ago yesterday with my fiancee and she likes to cook), so I'd like to lose that. Obesity isn't just a killer, it makes your quality of life worse too.

[SARGE]

I got family history the past 4 months to suddenly consider, a game changer. Any oil - veg, peanut, olive, soybean, etc., is oil is oil is oil. No such thing as a good one, just like no such good thing as "good" cholesterol vs the "bad" you keep hearing your doc tell you. It's just a numbers thing to them. You poor Crisco or grease down your drain, get clogged up, call the plumber, unstops the drain however the residue gonna keep collecting more like a magnet. If could completely ream out a heart, wouldn't need a bypass. Cardiologists suggest tuna and fish because they were told to say that and is safer than red meat - but still oil. And the fish oil with the Omegas you take for heart - oil. Get your Omega 3 from another source.

[thefultonhow]

Omega 3 is fat, SARGE. And read this about the benefits of olive oil:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/foo...rition/AN01037

[The fats contained in olive oil] may help lower your risk of heart disease by improving related risk factors. For instance, [they] may lower your total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels. [They] may also help normalize blood clotting. And some research shows that [they] may also benefit insulin levels and blood sugar control, which can be especially helpful if you have type 2 diabetes.

But, the next paragraph says what I said too -- you have to have olive oil in moderation for it to be healthy.

Incidentally, sugar and high fructose corn syrup (in the quantities they are present in modern processed foods) are far worse for you than the small amount of olive oil you may have to consume when you cook with it. Research has shown that when fructose (which makes up half of both HFCS and table sugar/sucrose) hits the liver in large quantities (and the liver is the only part of the body that can process fructose), the liver responds by converting large percentages of it to fat. And fat in the liver is bad news.

[SARGE]

I read a bunch of "may" in your quote. Omega-3 is not in an oily substance when it's in flaxseed meal . You also have to have red wine in moderation for it to be helpful. I can do w/o olive oil and red wine and do just fine. Where does the line of moderation crossover?

[David M]

As with all things where too little is not enough and too much can hurt you, think of it as a bell curve. Nobody can tell you exactly how much to eat so you are at the peak, but a peak does exist and it depends on the individual. I think if you look around the internet at medically valid legitimate sources you can make a pretty good educated guess.

http://www.robertniles.com/stats/graphics/normal.gif

[SARGE]

What kind of ****ing bell curve is that?

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by SARGE Omega-3 is not in an oily substance when it's in flaxseed meal .

The full name for Omega-3 is "Omega-3 fatty acids." In other words, fat. Doesn't mean there's a lot in flaxseed meal, but it is still fat.

Originally Posted by SARGE Where does the line of moderation crossover?

I think it's safe to say that a couple of tablespoons a day (all that should be needed for sauteeing, etc.) is still "moderation."

It's up to you whether you want to avoid it for yourself, and it probably won't hurt you to avoid it. But it also won't hurt you to have a little here and there in your cooking.

[SARGE]

Let's try it again. It's about the oil. Flaxseed oil is oil, flaxseed meal is not. Fish oil has Omega-3 also but is oil. Beam me up Scotty.

[rwest]

Your right Sarge. If it's bad for you, there's no helping make it better.

Now to the argument :
How far are you willing to go? My wife seperates her eggs every morning, she only eats the yolk. The egg whites have the higher amount of cholestrol in them. Or do you not eat eggs?

I'm sure you have a garden and eat from it pretty regularly, but how much food do you buy at the grocery store. I'm pretty sure almost all preservatives have been labled as bad for for you, but not neccesarily so bad that they're not safe for consumption. No processed foods whatsoever? That is the best choice.

I'm not knocking on ya', I think it's great you're making the effort. I just think elimination is just an extreme end that may not be as helpful as one would hope for or expect. And then, of course, where do you draw the line?

Here's a good one for you:
The wife read on line and it was aired by one of the major networks, that the average granola bar is just as bad as having a candy bar. So if you're going to have a granola bar , just go ahead and have the snickers; there's no difference.
Now evertime I have a snickers I tell myself,"Hey this is a Ganola bar!"

[bob]

Originally Posted by rwest Your right Sarge. If it's bad for you, there's no helping make it better. Now to the argument : How far are you willing to go? My wife seperates her eggs every morning, she only eats the yolk. The egg whites have the higher amount of cholestrol in them. Or do you not eat eggs?

One large egg has about 186 mg of cholesterol — all of which is found in the yolk.
SARGE is a steap ahead.
Source http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cholesterol/HQ00608

Edit: Mayo has a lot of oil in it.

[rwest]

I guues i got it wrong. I know she seperates her eggs though. I never paid attentoion to what part she ate, I thought it was the yolk. Me; I load 'em down with cheddar.

Heart disease runs in her family and she does what she can to prolong the inevitable, but she will still eat a donut once in a while.

[bob]

I usually throw away the yolks. Somtimes I make a green chillie and egg white with cheese meal but usually I must have over easy eggs with bacon and hashbrowns with buttered toast. I must be sure I do not run out of money before I die. That is why I know.

Got some Costco ribeye (Rant comming) that had so much grissle I have to cut in chuncks to remove it - cutting out the junk - looks like BenniHana, and add soy and green pepper/onion. I do use olive oil. Making that now.

[juppy]

Originally Posted by rwest Here's a good one for you: The wife read on line and it was aired by one of the major networks, that the average granola bar is just as bad as having a candy bar. So if you're going to have a granola bar , just go ahead and have the snickers; there's no difference. Now evertime I have a snickers I tell myself,"Hey this is a Ganola bar!"

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. Either they're talking about those chocolate covered "Dipps" type of granola bar, or I must be eating the one healthy brand out there. Because on mine (Quaker Chewy Choc. Chip) the total fat is 3g, saturated is 1g, and sugar is 7g. Compared to a Snickers with total fat around 13g, saturated 5g, and sugar a whopping 28g, I don't see their comparison as equal.

But like I said, if they're talking the ones that are dipped in chocolate, then yeah, they're somewhat higher in the fat, but the sugar is still nowhere close to a Snickers.

Originally Posted by SARGE No such thing as a good one, just like no such good thing as "good" cholesterol vs the "bad" you keep hearing your doc tell you. It's just a numbers thing to them.

Actually, that's yes and no. Yes, the cholesterol is the same. It's the lipoprotein that's not (the HDL, LDL, etc). Lipoproteins carry lipids like cholesterol through the blood. The difference with HDL being called "good" is because it has the ability to actually pick up cholesterol that's already attached to an atheroma (think the buildup that causes hardening of the arteries and heart disease) and take it OUT of that buildup to be transported back to the liver where it can either be disposed of or go through the system again to possibly end up being used in some other function....just not necessarily hooked back to the wall of your arteries again to make a blockage.

So, in a way, the HDL is seen as a sort of "cleaner" in your bloodstream, hence the "good" designation. But yes, as far as the cholesterol that it carries, it's all the same, it's just what the different lipoproteins do with that cholesterol that makes the difference.

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by SARGE Let's try it again. It's about the oil. Flaxseed oil is oil, flaxseed meal is not. Fish oil has Omega-3 also but is oil. Beam me up Scotty.

Oil is just concentrated fat. There is no difference between getting 15mg of flaxseed oil, and 15mg of the same monounsaturated fat from a much larger quantity of flaxseed meal. Well, the difference is you're getting a lot more protein from flaxseed meal, which is good, but if you have the 15mg of flaxseed oil with a bunch of other high-protein stuff, like you would in a stir-fry, that would be just as healthy.

[SARGE]

Thank you, I think. Oil is oil which was my original point, I think. Vegetable oil, olive oil, soybean oil, canola oil, peanut oil are bad critters. It's the substance. Your reception is breaking up, please realign your spacecraft in its orbit .... Sheeeeeesh