Well, SHE won...

[SARGE]

Never underestimate the power of the shemales, as Festus used to say. It appears we will be getting DSL on the 26th, much to my chagrin. I fool with it all day (troubleshooting) and have no desire to have hassles when I walk through the door at night. After today, I can feel the pain from the other side. Allow me to explain:

First phone call to business office just to inquire on availability and pricing. Get transferred to other dept. Questions are answered and said I'd call back if interested. Inform HER, she's elated, she wins again.

Second phone call made, get transferred again, a lady answers from some investment firm in Chicago. Huh?? Hang up.

Third phone call made, explain what I want, get transferred to same lady in Chicago. Apologize and ask what her firm's # is. She complains that she answers these misdirected calls all day from people wanting DSL and wants to know why. Huh??

Fourth call made, this time I beat 'em to the pass and ask what # they keep transferring me to. 15 minutes later I get where I need, but the party's just starting, as I'm now told there's a pending order already. I ask how, since I didn't order it, only inquired with first call. Was told the order would have to be cancelled and would take a day to process that, then I could order it again. Huh?? I do ask them if it takes an hour and 4 phone calls just to order it, then cancel it after I never ordered it, who is doing the actual hook ups to make it work?

This is why, but I'm already collecting my "told you so's" in advance to offer up when things go screwy. I'm a sucker when someone pats me on the back and boosts my ego by saying, "Honey, you can make anything work".

[Xayd]

Hehe, some have said 'Blame Canada', but 'Blame Telco Accounting' is much more accurate .

Well, on a brighter note Sarge, once it works it usually keeps working. It's not so bad once everyone gets their ducks in a row.

Then you get to network your whole house and wonder how you ever lived without broadband. I don't suppose that'll be the Missus that crawls into the attic to run Cat 5, will it ?

[audiyoda]

Ya know -- I've got to say the #ell I went through getting my DSL installed was worth it. The first time (MSN) was fairly painless except that modem they sent. Once I got into it, I was flying. Now with Ameritech/SBC -- they don't have a stinkin' clue -- even the guys down at the telco/switch don't have a clue. If it weren't for this forum, I think I would have pulled the entire line out of the wall and hooked her up to my generator and seen what fun I could have had.

-Craig

[Paul Victorey]

Ameritech has awful service, avoid it if you can.

DSL is a pain to get installed, but great once it's up.

[SARGE]

That's the kicker - alot of installs go smooth as silk, but the screwy ones begin a round of finger pointing and sitting on hold. Then the right tech goes out, sorts through the mess and jacks up the right department(s). Actually, the technology and actual work process is easy, but there are many fingers in the pie.

Xayd, I rewired the house one winter. Having 2 walk-in attics made it easy, as I don't belly crawl as easy as before. 2 pc's are already networked, but dragon lady's isn't in the loop. If'n I get hers up and running with dsl, I'll tackle the 3-way bit. I'm studying up on that part, as I hear pppoe vs the other stinks. I may be ringing your bell...

[glc]

PPPoE is fine if you use a Linksys router to share it - that way you dont have to deal with that godawful Enternet 300 software.

[Xayd]

Yeap, plenty easy. Just make sure they don't stick you with a USB or internal modem, and you'll be fine.

I run a Linux router (486 with 2 nics) which is also easy enough to set up, if you already got the hub it'd be cheaper too, assuming you can scrounge up a working 486 with about 12-24 megs of ram .

From what I've seen, I'd go with Netgear over Linksys. Their PPPoE implementation is more stable, and the UDP error rate is a bit lower as well, which means better performance in games for the kiddos.

[SARGE]

I'm already using the Linksys 10/100 Switch on 2 pc's. I'm debating on 2 scenarios. Run a CAT 5 into other room for wifey and network it also, OR, since I have 2 modems, not network hers and use 1 modem for hers and 1 for the 2 networked, realizing both can't be plugged into line at once. This is procedure we use already so wouldn't be a biggie. I've always ran dsl trouble outside and proved exactly where problem is/was. Never allowed to go past dmarc so that's an unfamiliar ground. I'm assuming the dsl software would have to be loaded on every pc, even if all networked. I'm not touching ICS.

[Xayd]

No, you just put a router in front of your hub, the router connects by itself, and as soon as a machine behind the hub is booted up it gets an IP and is online without any software .

[glc]

Yep, scenario 1. Network hers into the hub too, plug the DSL modem into the router, plug the router into the uplink port in the hub, browse to 192.168.1.1 (the router's internal IP address) and fill out the PPPoE section on the setup page with your login stuff and set keepalive, and off you go. Don't even THINK of installing the Enternet software!

[SARGE]

glc, what Enternet software from whom? Gimme a modem and I'll tweak the feathers out of it. Give me a telco problem, any type, I'll get it fixed. I guess networking has me bamboozled since never done it, except connecting 2 pc's with Linksys. The router item has me dumbfounded. I thought that was the whole purpose of the Linksys switch; plug modem into the uplink port and that's it. Are you saying don't install the Enternet software from the telco, that sets up link between them & me? ( I can see you shaking your head and rolling your eyes from Texas ).

[Kubie]

Sarge,
glc and xayd have got it right. The s/w they're talking about is Enternet300. Its about 4.5meg. Thats alot for just making a connection and it screws up all the time. If you don't go the router and hubs thing, get Raspppoe. Its 298KB and works real good.
If you go the router way, you'll need a static IP. They cost more, about double, otherwise your IP will be dynamic.
Xayd and glc, correct me if I'm wrong.
Carl

[audiyoda]

Sarge,

Basically what we are saying, is that you've got it right already -- just this time the uplink port is connected to the dsl modem rather than your computer's modem. Then all of your computers are connected to the Linksys and you are off.

You'll need to do a little setup in your Network so all the computers recognize the router (each NIC has to look for 192.168.1.1 as their default gateway) and then you set up the router to logon as your PPPoE client (my linksys 8 port does all of this seamlessly). So you're never installing the SBC EnterNET300 P.O.S. Take my word for it -- never, ever install that bloated pig parading as software.

-Craig

[highrisemech]

Sarge, so you finally caved in lol. I think you will be happy about it once you get it set up. Again a lot of the people I have talked to say they will never go back to a dial up connection. Me, I'll stick with the second phone line for a while but I can see broadband on the horizon. Let us know how you fare with your new connection....

[glc]

Sarge - I assume you have a plain Linksys 10/100 switch without the DSL router in it? If so, this is what you need to do to network all 3 of your machines to a SBC PPPoE DSL connection with a dynamic IP:

1. Order an Ethernet type DSL modem.
2. Buy a Linksys BEFSR11 DSL/Cable router (or sell your existing switch and buy a BEFSR41 DSL/Cable router with built in 10/100 4 port switch).
3. Connect the DSL modem to the "WAN" port on the router.
4. If it's the single port router and a separate switch, connect the LAN port on the router to the uplink port on the separate switch.
5. Set the TCP/IP properties for the NICs on all computers to obtain an IP address automatically, use DHCP for WINS resolution, leave the gateway blank, disable DNS. Shut all 3 computers down.
6. Plug all computers into the switch.
7. Power the modem, router, switch, and one computer up and open a browser, and browse to http://192.168.1.1, when the login page comes up, leave user name blank and the password is admin.
8. The defaults on the setup page should be just fine, except you need to fill out the PPPoE section with your assigned login name and password for your DSL account, and it's advised to enable "keepalive". Hit the Apply button and you are ready to rock and roll. This will be enough to get you up and going, and you can sort out other details later.

Close the browser, and run WINIPCFG on the machine that you are on, and hit the "release all" button. Cycle the power to the router and reboot the machine and go surfing. Power up the other machines and they should be surfing too. Plug the DSL modem and the router into a small UPS and power failures won't even faze you.

If you wish to enable filesharing and still be able to run Zone Alarm as a second line of defense firewall (the router is a firewall too) you will need to use NetBEUI protocol for that, as free Zone Alarm has problems with filesharing on a LAN over TCP/IP.

[Xayd]

What the router does in theory is somewhat of a filter. It takes your IP address from the telco PPP server, and assigns private IP addresses to the machines behind it, therefore allowing them all to be online at the same time.



(router) /-------PrivateIP
PublicIP---------PrivateIP
(router) \-------PrivateIP

If a request from the outside goes to the router, it takes the port number and determines what machine it goes to on the inside by that in the case of an incoming request. In the case of an outgoing request the response comes back to the machine on the inside that it originated from.

It's not very complicated once you see how everything works in front of your own two eyes, trust me .

[SARGE]

Thanks, fellers, for taking the time to explain. The questions I didn't know how to ask were answered . I can't visualize more than 1 pc being online at same time but who knows? My concern was doing without the Enternet 300 and using the RASPPOE. Wasn't clear how to set it up but the goodies came today and looks like it will go on, but it shows how to uninstall as well.

glc, I don't know what you mean by a plain Linksys switch. The "features" include sharing cable or dsl, has Sygate software for sharing the dsl, and even has a little pic showing the dsl modem plugging into the Uplink port. It's not either of the models you listed, but on the surface it looks capable.

[glc]

Sarge - trust me on this. Go spend the $70 for a BEFSR11 and put it between the DSL modem and your switch. You will not regret it. Plugging the modem into your switch will not share worth a crap, with or without Sygate and with or without Enternet or RASPPPoE. Any or all computers will be on the Net whenever they are turned on with no human intervention.

We gotta flush the dialup mentality out of your stubborn brain! DSL is on 24/7.

[SARGE]

glc, I've always trusted you. When I don't understand something I tend to ask too many questions. But I've learned alot that way. As for the dial-up, it will take a bunch of Drano to flush that mentality from the brain. I spent too long trying to understand 56k and the various modems.

I was under the impression that dsl providers don't allow routers and/or more than 1 pc on their service. That's one reason I was gonna use at least 2 modems, among other reasons. I hesitate putting the wife's Gateway on our LAN or behind any router/switch combo. Looks like Santa has another item on the list (the router).

Thanks

[glc]

The DSL and cable providers don't care any more, because "everyone" is doing it. They just don't officially support user-networked installations. Ameritech Speedpath DSL here even offers a networking package for homes and small businesses that costs the same $49.95 a month with THEIR router (which costs $374 and they hit you $200 for installation and $50 setup) that is also an 4 port hub. I have a customer with this package that is sharing 15 workstations and a NT server. I have installed Linksys routers for at least 2 dozen customers on standard residential DSL and cable accounts, and have several business customers running them on low cost DSL and fixed wireless systems.

If you are concerned about DL's files, you can just disable filesharing on her machine.

[SARGE]

Well, the party's starting. They called wifey today and said it was connected ahead of time, have a nice day. I had her plug modem by itself into line to see if it would synch up. I do this regularly, btw. She said the dsl light flashed a few times then turned solid. Good, ready to go to next step when get home. Get home and perform same test - no synch. Take it outside at dmarc - no synch. I hesitate calling and being on hold; they will probably say it's not due until 26th, I'll follow with they called today and it synched up once and now it won't. On top of that, whatever they did maybe screwed up my voice mail. When retrieving messages, they play over & over real fast. Never done that in 4 years.

This is WHY I never wanted it...

[glc]

Did you install the filters on all the phone jacks?

Don't feel bad - my sister has been fighting with PacBell over her ISDN line since May! That's when she moved in this place and she had her company-provided ISDN line switched over from her old place - and it hasn't worked yet! PacBell is blaming her Cisco router - which works perfectly at her boss's house with his SPID's but won't work at her place with her SPID's - but has worked at her places for 3 years prior. Her boss is blaming PacBell, and can prove it, but nobody is home there and listening. So - I'm on a crappy dialup right now instead of a nice dual channel ISDN. This winmodem of hers sucks.

[Kubie]

Sarge,
Go on down to Best Buy and just look at the box of the router that glc is talking about. After reading the back of it and looking at the pictures, all kinds of lights came on. I need a picture drawn for me. I will be getting the router from MWave. They have a single port and 4 port shipped to you for less then 80.00. (UPS ground)
Carl

[SARGE]

Don't need filters yet as can't synch at dmarc with house disconnected. I found out telco started billing for dsl on the 20th, but dsl folks won't connect their end until 26th. Seems to me billing should begin when you connect the first time...

Carl, the router seems the real deal. I ain't buying anything until I get a synch. Also, the modem they shipped already has issues, according to what I'm reading over at dslreports.com

Party time

[Kubie]

Sure sorry to hear about all the problems Sarge.
The modem I've got is a Alcatel Speed Touch Home.
Only issue I've had with it is that about once a month I have to turn off the modem and pc for about a minute or it won't connect.
Carl

[Xayd]

If you start to have issues I can getcha a replacement Sarge, in the form of an Efficient Networks 5260. Several co-workers have moved to new apartments, and telco loves to screw up and send them a second modem and nic instead of just moving service from one location to another.

If there are issues with yours after you get everything going and want another one lemme know .

[SARGE]

Xayd, thanks.