Gonna buy a new stereo, what should I get?

[Paul Victorey]

OK, my ultimate goal is to slowly replace my older A/V equipment with nice new stuff. I can't get the HD-TV yet as they're still so expensive I'd have to sell a kidney to afford one, but I am looking to replace my old stereo.

I bought a rather nice stereo, but this was years back. The CD changer is still good, and that's modular so I can keep it. The main stereo, with the tuner, cassette deck (like I have much use for that anymore), etc. is a little dated, though.

I'd like to get a system to get some nice sound out of DVDs and video games. My brother has a good 5 speaker+subwoofer system, and I was amazed by how cool it can be to play games on his TV (even though his TV is not so good) because the sound is excellent.

The problem is, although I once kept up with trends in audio equipment, my knowledge in this area is quite out of date. What features should I look for, what brands are good/bad, what kind of system is going to give me the ultimate experience without requiring selling body parts?

Also, is now a good time to buy, or will the coming year improve the technology noticeably? I'd probably not get a whole lot of use out of a stereo for the next year (I have a small apt with some other guys and we have all the stereos we need) but in a year and a half or so, I'll move into my own apt. and would like a cool stereo for that time.

[archie]

If you go in a store at this time of the year, it may be a bit too busy for getting help or even listening to the speakers. As far as technology, it will not improve much over one year. It's been a while that I've purchased a stereo, but if getting one, it would be built around the speakers. Don't worry about how many watts they are. If you want it loud, a more useful spec is the efficientcy, ie 83db at 1 watt, 1 metre is not as loud as 103db at 1 watt/1M ... note that a more efficient speaker is not necessarily a better sounding speaker. A subwoofer system is a good way to go. What brand of speaker did your brother get? For brands, usually avoid the ones made by the same company that makes the components [not Technics or Pioneer speakers, rather get speakers from a company that makes nothing but speakers]. For brands of speakers, I would check out Celestion [if they still make speakers] as I've had a pair of Celestion Ditton 300 MKII for over 15 yrs that replaced huge Cerwin-Vega U-351 but there are lots of descent manufacturers out there. Unlike a computer, a hifi system should last well over a decade.

[mc2phat]

I have Denon components running through JBL speakers; seven years old. I bought the Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide that year to help with my decision.

Off the subject: My father has an Akai/Sansui setup (monster pioneer speakers, the cabinets are wood) that he bought in 1963 that absolutely rocks.

[Gintaras]

My suggestion:
-CD player: Marantz
-Tape deck: Marantz or Nakamichi

Also, take time to read http://www.audioreview.com/

[Statica]

My suggestion for the receiver .. Harmon Kardon
For speakers .. I've never bought anything but BOSE
nakamichi is also a gr8 performer . . but in canada i've never found it .. hope u have better luck out there.

[archie]

I also happen to have a Denon integrated amp and tape deck.
One feature that I avoid in a tape deck is auto reverse. I believe Nakamichi would be an exception as the whole tape rotates rather than the heads. The problem with auto reverse is that the heads can get out of allignment resulting in inferior sound [loss of high frequencies].
A bit off topic ... in the ealy 80's, I used to sell hi-fi equipment on Yonge St south of Wellesley in Toronto. On boxing day, the prices were slightly raised. It didn't matter, the store was packed ... customers would more or less choose anything. It was so busy that there was not even time to show anyone that for the same price they could consider another model or whatever. To this day, I avoid shopping on Boxing Day.

[audiyoda]

If you want a real receiver, check out the Outlaw 1050 6.1 digital. There is nothing on the market today, for the price, that will match this puppy. Gold medal award winner from Stereophile's Guide to Home Theater, it will kick the cr@p out of any Denon, Harmon Kardon, Yamaha Natural Sound, Nakamichi, or Onkyo. I've had one now for six weeks and can't believe I only paid $599 for it. Running through my JBL S412pbe floor speakers, JBL N24 surround speakers (3), and my JBL PB12 powered sub -- there is nothing quite like it for the price. My former receiver was a Yamaha HTR5490 with 100x6 watts per channel (35 amps per channel) that really kicked through those JBL's. But this Outlaw is truly awesome. There's not much that will make me buy a new receiver after having just bought one (I bought the Yamaha three months ago but heard the Outlaw at a friend's house).

It's kinda funny that Outlaw shows their award from Stereophile's Guide to Home Theater on the 1050's website as Budget product of the year. That's not correct: page 40 of January 2002 issues shows it the Gold Medal award winner for A/V Receiver behind the Platinum awarded B&K AVR307 which sells for $3500.00!!! The Budget award winner, BTW, were the Tannoy Mercury mX2 speakers which are fabulous if you want a kicking set of bookshelf sized speakers for under $400/pair.

Nothing for the price will touch this Outlaw. The only real downer to Outlaw is they only sell on-line. But I've only read praises about their products and I personally know two other converts to their gear. I'll never own another receiver until I can afford that B&K or a McIntosh THX.

-Craig

[Hpro]

As I'm quite being a Oldtimer so here it goes - this is the equippment I use on the computer table..

Power Amp = Antique Sound Lab AQ - 1003 Class A Dual Output Valve Amplifier 35Watts per channel.. Distortion .5% on 1 Watt .75 % on full load
(please note that the human ear will not reconize distortions below 1%.!)
Speakers = Isophon Two Way , 6.5" and Canton Soft Dome Silk Tweeter 1.5" (Voice Coil)Max RMS power 100 Watts..
AWE64 Gold Sound card..

In my Sound Proofed listening Room..

Power Amp = Composite Collector Load Class A Bipolar Output Stage 2 * 40 Watts at 8 Ohms Load..,Frequencsy Response 0 Hz - 200Khz +- 0.5Db..Channel separation better than 100db,Slew Rate 35Volts/ms, Damping Factor better than 1000 at 1Khz, Signal to Noise Ratio better than 90 Db at 1khz better than 78db at 20 Hz better than 100 db at 20Khz , Distortion less than .5% over all the frequncy band..at any output power, with PID Regualtion output regualtion and NONE negative Feedback..IMD Distortion less than .001% Output Stage consists of 20, 150 Watts 25 Amp transistors per Channel..
BTW this Power Amp was developed by me about ten years ago and also then tested - it still runs today - Note you can cook Eggs after 10 minutes of use on top of it.. but it will not Blow up..

Line Drive = Composite DRAIN load Class A Mosfet Input Output Stage , Frequency responce 0-450Khz +- 0.25db distoriton less than .1% over all the Frequency band.. IMD less than 001% ,Max output voltage 26Volts ..Supply voltage - NOT line voltage - +- 80Volts 5Amps Current flow on Idle..

CD Player - Philips 850 Dual Bitstream 171Khz Oversampling frequency.

Speaker = Marantz HD 880 Floorstand 4 way.. (made in USA)Crossover Network Silver Wire wound Coils,Sideral Caps Capasitors,Resista Wirewound 1% resistors.

Tuner ITT Digital 9560

Tape Deck TEAC V680 Three Head Full Servo control
Tape Deck Reel to Reel = ASC 6000 (German Made)Professionell Studio Deck)

Cables - all RCA plugs are 18k Gold Plated NEUTRIK Profi on 75cm long Silver/Copper Cable 3 times shielded..

Speaker Cable 2* 4.75Meter Oxide free Copper 600 coated Wires inside.. (I did count them when I got the cable - Accoustic is the name..)

This all is more than enough to get a REAL Realistic sound.If anyone likes to see the specs Computer outprint just let me know..

[Blankman]

One thing is get educated. In the end I bought a pair of Infinity Overture 2 speakers and am powering them with a Denon AVR-2400. Total retail value was well over $2k, I spent under $1000. Check out www.audioreview.com As some have stated, you can definitely buy some quality material and have it last a long time...hope you have fun in your search.

[archie]

One feature to consider is whether to get remote control or not ... not necessarily one that controls the whole system [getting components is still the way to go] but having the option to lower or mute the volume and switch from the tuner to another source may be worth considering.

[troysvihl]

Just like in compuers, modularity is the key to a good system. Don't buy a receiver. Go more modular than that even.

I sunk quite a bit into a system a few years ago, and I only have one regret in that I bought a receiver. I should have gone more modular than that. Get a seperate amp, seperate tuner, seperate pre-amp, etc.

Now, I'm stuck with what was a $3500 receiver that was top of the line two years ago. It would have cost a bit more at first, but it would be a lot cheaper now to just replace the pre-amp rather than the whole reciever.

[audiyoda]

Gotta disagree with troysvihl. Seperate pre-amps are becoming few and far betweeen. Not to mention the one's that are on the market are quite costly. For most people's needs, a high quality receiver is plenty. I could probrably sink $15,000 into audio gear for my home theater, but why? At a point, determined by my needs, bang for the buck is gone. Like the Outlaw receiver I mentioned earlier, there's just nothing on the market that can touch it -- especially for the price. Sure, if my wife would allow it, I could buy seperate amps and a pre-amp, but the cost, space, and pure amperage draw just isn't worth it to me.

-Craig

[archie]

After reading Troysvihl's reply, I see some merit in the separate power amp/pre-amp/tuner config. Decision, decision ... as down the road, an upgrade of just one of the components would cost less than the whole gear. There is definitely an initial premium to pay though. A receiver ought to be considered mostly because of the lower cost of the combined units and it offers more features for the same price.
One thing I've avoided to this day is the CD players that take more than one CD ... even for the car. Reason being is that there is more mechanical things to go wrong with it ... not to say that I would never own one in the future [although I doubt it].

[audiyoda]

Originally posted by archie After reading Troysvihl's reply, I see some merit in the separate power amp/pre-amp/tuner config. Decision, decision ... as down the road, an upgrade of just one of the components would cost less than the whole gear.

But will it? Amps die, pre-amps die, tuners die, receivers die. In all honesty, I'd rather replace one component than have to deal with one failure after another. And I've had to do that in my studio where I HAVE to have seperate components. Companies don't build longevity into equipment -- it's not profitable. So replace one piece every five or so years, or replace several pieces over a given period of time.

I know plenty of people that have very costly sound systems -- regardless as to whether or not they need to, they replace equipment. My next door neighbor just went and got himself a new THX2002 certified McIntosh pre-amp and 8 amps -- his current set up is 18 months old. Did he need the new one -- probrably not, but it was bigger, better, and grander in every way. It's in our very nature to do what my neighbor just did -- and granted, he's got the money -- he's a supervisor at GM. But damn -- my entire home theater's not worth what he just bought -- but I think it's just as good. Not as loud, but I'll take quality of quantitiy any day. Add a little band for the buck, and I'm happy.

-Craig

[Hpro]

I have to agree on this one with Audioyoda - even not alltimes I agree with him but here he made a very important point..
If you watching only TV and using the system for mosly entertainement then go for a SINGLE unit - but as soon you like to sophisticated REAL CLEAR PURITY music then a single unit will no more do the job

One more important thing is - don't get blinded be the 125 and more fucntions a System can do for you - this is all customer cheat - what you need are the main Functions of Giving a linear RESPONCE to start with - all the chichi stuff let the kids play on they like it.. what a company invest into digital controlling will be taken of the sound quality - what the hell if you have 25000 lights on the gear but the sound sucks - the same count's for all the other appraised knobs and funtions - Get out on the street into the park stay in the middle of it listen to the surrounding sound - then get home and check your system - does it come close to this..or just take a empty bottle drop it and listen to the sound - does the system cope up with this sound..? Or take a bell - a gunshot canon shot - whatever - don't go on and compare to other systems - most of them have the sound colored by some stupid engenieer which thought he was smart to raise bass in the flat sound spectrum - this SUCKS This I call Faked sound - listen to someone who plays a Trumphet or a SAX and then you will hear the sound of AIR flow (kenny G) is example for this besides the other tones which coming out of that instrument - another good thest is Guitar strings - no, NO electrical guitar strings - classic strings from nylon to Gibson .008" for the high E string - can you hear the wide sound of them.?- and does your AMP or system reproduce this? if you like sound like this - then you are on the way to spend a 50'000 US but if you don't care that much then you listen to AUDIOYODA - I think he has the right thing in mind there - ..

If you like to get some systems whihc are worth of to spend some money on then the first thing is to STAY AWAY from everything MADE IN JAPAN!!!
Get yourself a Mark Levinson , Or KRELL or Forte ,Power Amplifier preamplifier if this is Transistorized - if you go for Tube - then Music Reference , Audio Research but his will cost some money - there is some techonologies behind Japanese brands can't even come close to - as for speakers there are only a few out there - Number 1 since very long time is BOSE and I think it will stay like that - then Electro Voice those are american speakers - then Vifa , Dyna Audio , Isophon , Svenska , Canton from europe - but you have to take a deep grab into your money bag - don't like JBL as those ones are produced in Asia lately and don't sound like the old JBL's anymore..
this are my two cents

[archie]

Yeah **sigh**, the stuff is great until it shows its signs of aging. I've come across that just last week when my beloved '84 Toshiba CX 2084 TV, one of the first stereo and flat screen set, showed its signs of eventual demise. I do recall too the separate tuner/monitor Panasonic gear ... is that even available now.

BTW, are McIntosh's still using tubes.

[Hpro]

Yes Mcintosh are still making Tubes - but the company has been sold to JAPAN - no more productions out of USA - and soon they will be a mess like Marantz and all other once best systems - Accuphase another one - JVC = James Victor Company etc.. Even JVC is still supervised by the USA and european companies - (Nordmende is developing the Cirquit boards) so you see it's globalisation here which takes over..

Take any Sony , Hitachi, Samsung,Goldstar TV and open them up - what you find in there - Philips chips - because those companies can not make passable REAL COLOR chip - take futji film and then a kodak - it's like a world in between the colors..
I could go on here..but I'd better stop..

OH BTW there is still FISHER out there which is made in the States..and Tubes are coming back those days.. very expensive but if you compared to a Rolls Royce a lot cheaper and for Sound there is only the Tube - and it's the Rolls Royce of amplifiers..

[archie]

I'd take a futji film over a Kodak any day ... and I always thought JVC was an acronym for Japan Victor Company. As for Bose speakers, seriously? And all japanese stuff not being worthwhile. I could go on here ... but better stop ... yet it's nice to have various opinions on this

[shecky981]

I personally have a old, but good condition Denon reciever, with yamaha components, and Boston Acoustic speakers and i have been very happy with is.....but.......

a freind of mine has a Rotel system which i must say is just amazing. im not sure on the exact setup but i think he has B&A or ProAc speakers (i am not sure of the brand name, he has a few sets) and super thick (like inch diamater) speaker cable and so on and so on and so on. all told the system cost many 1000's of dollars (i think well over $15,000 for everything) but the sound to an amature like me is absoloutly unreal. I dont know if you can even begin to afford this kinda product, but, i was blown away.

Around here we have Tweeter, which is a what i call high end consumer audio, but, not really audiophile stuff. $3000 and under recievers is about their top of the line. Only specialty audio shops carry the higher end stuff.

[Hpro]

Wasn't any worth of not Worthwhile.!
But I just don't like to spend my money on a box of cheap plastic - can buy plastic much cheaper in any store -
I never liked to spend my hard earned money on cheap things.. better spend a bit more and it lasts a lifetime..and get quality..

As for JVC - this was former VICTOR company - BTW I use a JVC - Nordmende VCR - model H370A - it served me well - and still does.. if you trace it back then you will see that JVC originally had it's birth in the states the same as for Kenwood and Pioneer - both originally German Companies..

As for Bose there will be more who agree than the ones who don't agree..

Just a small sample of Trade - any japanese who can afford it will buy a Rolex or Omega Watch - before he goes and buy a Seiko..Wearing a Omega for over twenty years now and it still works... that time I paid 2500USD for it in Swiss - and it paid itself out..It's a DE VILLE Chronometer..no need to listen to the Six O'clock Radio Beeps to adjust it - there is no adjustment needed -will run within one second per year.. Certified Liftime Warranty..

But this doesn't mean that the other brands aren't good or worse - but it means that I try to get the most out of my money - so easy ..

And just that you see that I'm not the anti japanese as you may think I use a Nikon FG (16 years old) to shoot my pictures with Nikon lenses 100mm 1:2.8 and a 80 - 200mm Zoom also made by Nikon - and I shot some very nice pictures with this camera - had also a AS2 and F2 but both of them didn't last long.. But if I had the money freely to spend I would buy a Hasselblad - or Leica..
But for that money I spend back that time the Nikon was the camera to have the best money material - Quality Rate , at least for me and I paid itself out..
I also back then when I was younger drove Yamaha Motorcylces for daily use as also for racing in swiss and after that worked at Yamaha Hammamatsu for several months..this when I went to japan in 1974..and it opened my eyes...But I started to love Asia and so I ended up going back to Europe and sold everything I thought of I didn't need anymore and moved out to Asia - and I never will regret it - but this does't mean that I have to agree or that I have to like everything which comes or is made in asia..and it also doesn't mean that what I bought or have is to be the best ..otherwise this would may end up in a abbreviation of intel vs.amd thread - and I don't think that this brings anythings else but bad impressions..

One more thing is that I try to support Western Industry when I buy something..but this doesn't mean that the other industries aren't good or bad - but as I westener I think it the least I can do..

As I'm not a rich man - so I think I got to invest my money in a order that I have those things I buy for a long time - as I don't like to buy a Watch every year because it dropped once and dissolved itself into pieces or a CD player every six months just because plastic came out of alignment..or a new CPU because of overheating..

Hope you get my point...
Thank you for reading..

[archie]

About 20yrs ago, Rotel was a low-fi name and they really made a turnaround for the better. A friend of mine has a Rotel integrated amp ... there's no flashing lights on that puppy.
I wonder too if getting a tape deck as a recording source is still the way to go ... there are some new formats out there. As for CD players, should one consider a DVD player instead?

[DJ Cyber]

As a person that used to sell A/V equipment all I can do is give you some tips:

1/ Avoid receivers or amps with a lot of flashy lights and such (they are a way to get buyers to buy)
2/ Most amps/receivers within a price range will give you almost the same sound quality if run with the same speakers. The only ones who can tell the difference in sound NORMALLY are those with a trained ear.
3/ Your speakers are what will make or break your sound.... choose them wisely.
4/ Do not take sound demos done in the store as the only source when deciding on a system. The "in store" systems are set up in an accountically superior enviroment (it WILL DEFINITELY sound different in your home)
5/ Don't take the salesman's or a friends word for it!! You are buying the system for YOU... just because it sounds great to the sales person or friend, it may sound like **** to you. Buy what is attractive to YOUR EARS!!!

[redbaron_snoopy]

A very interesting mix of consumer preferences and pockets. Here's my $0.02 worth about consumer preferences in Asia (Singapore at least)

Majority buys Japanese AV because they are cheaper, all-in-one wonders with very small footprint (an important consideration for our type of compact apartments - many are 2 or even 3 generations living together too).

This is not to say that people don't appreciate the B&Os & such. Just that the Jap stuff are really much more affordable and makes no diff in quality to most people living in small apartments where you need to open all windows for ventilation in the hot climate and the neighbours noise will destroy your best sound systems.

That also means less "painful" to replace a Jap AV after 2 or 3 years,
more "stylish" (aarghh..) designs and can afford an AV setup in every room and hall for privacy..

However, for "small" items such as watches and cameras, thats another issue altogether...