Are The Borg in Star Trek good or bad?

[calmius]

I realize that this technological collective seems like evil thing because it assimilates other species, but is it really bad? They assimilate and their thoughts become one. SO if they assimilate thousand people, their minds become one and they all control their borg as if they're one mind.
In that case the individual mind is not destroyed but it becomes very efficient when mixed with the other minds.
What do you think of this concept? is it good or bad?

By the way? Where do The Borg come from?

[juppy]

From what I understand, the Borg don't consider themselves "evil", but instead see their assimilations as "improving life in the universe" by combining all intelligence of different races. Other non-Borg races view them as evil because they are just taking these people from their homes, transplanting cybernetic devices into them and basically saying "you will be one of us". I guess it's not too much different from a kid with an ant farm. He takes the ants and makes them "his" to live where he says they will in whatever abode he sees fit to put them in, all of this against their will (not that the ants are actually capable of realizing the difference). If ants could think this logically though, they'd likely be thinking the same things; that this kid is "evil" and taking them from their homes and taking over their lives. All this while the parents of the kid think "Oh, it's so cute, Johnny has an ant farm." Therefore, they don't view it as evil. It all depends on your perspective I suppose. Which side you're on and all that.
As for where the Borg are from, I don't know if I ever heard anyone say. They refer to them as a hive community, with individual "hives" all connected together through their network. For some reason, bees come to mind when I think "hives". The Borg do have a queen after all just like bees.

[pam123]

When the Intrepid is thrown 70,000 light years from Federation space into anothe galactic quadrant they must cross Borg home space to get back. So it's in StarTrek Voyager that we get our closest look at the Borg and learn something about them.
To wit; they're parasites.
As Janeway discovers they do not create, they can't.
They can only exists at the expense of the civilizations around them.
One, of the many, touching things about 7 of 9 is her slow discovery of creativity. First in others and then in herself.
I would suggest a dictionary. Look up evil. Theological definitions can be left to theologians but the other one, and this is from Webster's is : Causing injury, ruin, or pain. harmful
A cause of harm, misfortune, or destruction.
To make this plain it's not a matter of perspective and it's not little Jimmy's ant farm.
It's what you did to someone else.

[corosus]

if the borg can not create where did one come from.
in case you don't remember, : the drone that was bord ouut of several of seven's nanoprobes the doctor's mobile emitter and a biological sample from som crewman????

second point.
have you ever come across someone who thinks he himself is evil???, most people who are concidered evil are , from thier own perspective, improving the world ( i admit some are just stupid and don't relize that they are doing annything at all) Even hitler thought he was working towards a better world (for the record : i think it goes without saying that i strongly disagree with hitler). therefor when you ask a question like is this or that "evil" you have to ask yourself two questions, one is what do i concider to be evil, and from whose poit of view.
for me personaly the person who refuses to acept that another peron might not share his (or her) views and beliefs is evil, but that's just fo me. the borg impose thier view of the universe on other races and that makes them, in my view evil. however thier goal might still be admirable, it is a verry inticat puzzle indeed, i'll post more later, as i have to go now

[Strider]

Hitler tried to do the same thing as the fictional Borg did, to put it simply it is evil. Assimilate/kill entire races or nations is wrong, thusly evil.

[pam123]

Evil is what you do to others, not what you think of yourself.
It's an action and it's not excused by the goal. Thus such phrases as "necessary evil" and the bad rep they have.
I don't see that the Voyager episode with the drone disproves my statement. You'll have to elablorate on that.

[juppy]

Originally posted by pam123 I would suggest a dictionary. Look up evil. Theological definitions can be left to theologians but the other one, and this is from Webster's is : Causing injury, ruin, or pain. harmful A cause of harm, misfortune, or destruction. To make this plain it's not a matter of perspective and it's not little Jimmy's ant farm. It's what you did to someone else.

I still have to disagree with you on this point. Like corosus pointed out, how many people consider themselves to actually be evil? None that I know of. That's why I said it is a matter of perspective. It's whatever side you agree with. If you believe as the evil-claimers, then you think someone's evil. If you agree with the so called "evil doer", then you think the other group is wrong and just picking on this poor, defenseless being trying to make something better. They have a different view of what or how something should be done and when somebody finds fault with that person's methods, they are viewed as going against the moral good or therefore, evil. It just depends on your opinion. As for my ants example, how is it not like the Borg? The Borg come to a planet & take the people's lives over, thus destroying (per your Webster's definition) what they have built on their own. If little Johnny goes out, takes the ants out of their dens, and holds them captive in his little ant farm, the ants are not able to keep on living in the place they were, thus that part of their life is destroyed.

[Colonel Sanders]

I would say they are ignorant, and thus evil. They don't realize that individuality is imporntant, and what people want. They believe they are doing people a favor, but how can losing your freedom and being put on a ship be considered good?

Logan

[pam123]

Everyone still wants qualifiers. There aren't any.
If you caused this the correct term is "evil".
It's not what you admit ( am I the only one who did a spit-take when hit with the back story of Babylon 5- those writers did their jobs!- you can't excuse the action unless you're Delenn ) it's what you did.
The Borg do know individuality. It's what they're looking for. It's the host.
Remember what happened when they find the creatures most like them.
Kass warns Janeway that the other creatures are more of a menace then the Borg.

[Prew]

Back to the orignial question- are the Borg good or bad?

Its quite simplistic:

Borg are enemies of the Enterprise.
The Enterprise folks are the good guys, hence, the Borg are bad guys.- that's why they wear the black outfits and hats.

Really can't go by the storyline on the Voyager because its plots seem to run counter to the stories and culture of the other Star Treks. (i.e., How about that senstive, emotional Klingon female?- 180 degrees from the Klingons on other Star Treks).

[gladiator]

Originally posted by Prew Back to the orignial question- are the Borg good or bad? Its quite simplistic: Borg are enemies of the Enterprise. The Enterprise folks are the good guys, hence, the Borg are bad guys.- that's why they wear the black outfits and hats. Really can't go by the storyline on the Voyager because its plots seem to run counter to the stories and culture of the other Star Treks. (i.e., How about that senstive, emotional Klingon female?- 180 degrees from the Klingons on other Star Treks).

Hey Prew, I maybe wrong but wasn't Alana half human on her mothers side I believe.

The new series Enterprize really sucks, I keep waiting for the captain to Leap( As in Quantum leap) at the end of the show.

Borg are not evil , just misguided

[Blakhart]

When the empire of the devil runs this earth, that will be exactly what will go on. No freedom or individuality whatsoever.
Besides, Billy Gates is borg. And so are a lot of religious ppl.....
Ok take it to forumclick.

[TimPoet]

Originally posted by juppy I still have to disagree with you on this point. Like corosus pointed out, how many people consider themselves to actually be evil? None that I know of. That's why I said it is a matter of perspective. It's whatever side you agree with.

Ok, let me set the record straight. There is right and wrong. There is NO moral relativity, it simply is an impossible philosophical condition, it does not and cannot exist.
The Borg issue of of their evil comes down to this maxim regarding freedom: You can do anything you want as long as you don't exert force against someone else.
The term "someone" denotes the fact that the soul exists, hence ants and other animals have no rights or freedom to be violated.
So it is safe and true to say things like it is evil for my Japanese ancestors to have invaded Shanghai and killed hundreds of thousands before WWII and to have attacked Pearl Harbor without declaring war, while it was definitely not evil for the U.S. to carpet-bomb Tokyo with fire bombs or to drop two atomic bombs on my mothers' homeland in an effort to stop the war with Japan and save millions of Japanese civilians' lives, notwithstanding my mother and hence, years later, me.
Here, the Japanese were acting like the Borg and the U.S. was defending herself from their assimilation.

[Prew]

Originally posted by gladiator Hey Prew, I maybe wrong but wasn't Alana half human on her mothers side I believe. The new series Enterprize really sucks, I keep waiting for the captain to Leap( As in Quantum leap) at the end of the show.

Part of my point, in TNG Worf made it known that a Klingon couldn't have sex with a Human female because it would be too violent and probably kill the human. Voyager seemed to turn everyting around and make everything politically correct.

Agreed on the Enterprise- again- too watered down and politically correct.

[gladiator]

Also Prew if you remember Worf married Jazia Dax, although she was no human she wasn't Klingom either.

I wish they'd bring back Deep Space Nine!!

[Computer Hobbyist]

Guys and Gals the entire Star Trek spectrum of shows don't exist, they are only television shows--interesting only in how they challenge us to think about the world or in how they enterain us with a few minutes amusement. At best the indivdual episodes examine issues confronting us today. One of the best of all time was the original Star Trec episode (half white vs. half back) that examined the absurdity of race hatred. Remember how the Enterprise crew couldn't tell the difference between the two warring races.

I suspect the Borg episodes were originally offered as an examination of the damage to the individual that comes from the loss of privacy in a frightening world where everything is known by all and secrets are not possible. Loss of privacy equals loss of freedom equals true evil? Think about the exchange of privacy for security. Isn't security what the Borg is really offering to those absorbed? Collective immortality? When examined from that perspective the Borg episodes become truly relevant to today's world.

CH

PS I think the current Enterprise is the closest to the original, because the crew members are not presented as super men and women striding the command deck of some battleship or diplomates trying to head off some war, but as real pioneers struggling with every day problems. One episode they even had problems with Gravity.

The most absurd story line in the history of Star Trek is the one involving Riker's decision not to assume command of his own star ship. Any officer who would want to remain second in command isn't worth having around. Picard should have moved him to some desk job where he belonged.

[Prew]

Originally posted by gladiator Also Prew if you remember Worf married Jazia Dax, although she was no human she wasn't Klingom either. I wish they'd bring back Deep Space Nine!!

Oh, I forgot about that- inconsistency seems to be rapant.

Interesting that Star Trek has spawned so many movies and series. It really triggers something in the collective psyche.