Feeling scammed, need advice (long, bear with me)

[LitWit]

Hey all;

I've just ran into a situation that has me mad as all h-e-double hockey sticks and would like some advice and feedback from those of you on the forum. Now, I know that most of you are guys and might be rolling your eyes at the fact that I'm talking about a wedding dress--but don't worry, I'm not going to ask you questions about if a certain veil matches my shoes
Seriously, though, what I am asking you to do is to look at the situation that I'm about to describe from a legal and ethical point of view; I know that this forum doesn't substitute for face-to-face legal advice, either, but I'm so confused and hurt right now that any feedback would be helpful.

About 2 months ago, I stopped by a local bridal shop in my hometown because they had a
beautiful dress in the window that caught my eye. I had been wedding dress shopping for some time since my engagement, but somehow when I saw this one I knew that it was exactly what I was looking for. So, I go into the shop with my mom and try thier sample on, a size 8. (I wear around a size 8 in other clothes). I fall in love with it, and know right away that this would be the perfect gown.

One problem: the dress doesn't zip up all the way in the back, it stops at a little past the halfway point of my back but fits great in the waist. The saleslady takes a peek at the dress and says, "You just need a few inches in the bust, a size 10 will give you that room, I'm certain." So, mom and I place an order for the gown in a size 10, with mom putting down the required 50% deposit (a common practice, I've been told). The owner did NOT measure me during this meeting, but she seemed super confident that the larger size would work.

Two days before the dress comes in, the same saleswoman (also the owner, I later found out) calls and says that we'll need to pay the remainder of the price before I can take that dress home. Since I was so stuck on this dress, she does, but at the time we really believe that it would fit. Guess what: it doesn't. The dress style is made *very* small in the bust anyway, and..well, I'm not exactly dolly parton, but those so-called "couple of inches" didn't make a difference. Again, it fits everywhere BUT in my middle back and chest area.

This style of dress CANNOT be let out, it has obvious boning all over it. THe owner freaked out when we told her that I would probably need a 12 or 14 because the dress style is made so small...since she didn't measure me or tell me that this particular brand of wedding dress really does run THIS small, I had no idea that the 10 wouldn't fit. She grunts, tells me that the manufacturer won't take the dress back or oder an exchange because it's "against thier policy." ( I later found out that this is NOT true!) But, she says that their house seamstress could do a lace-up thingy in the back to make up the difference, and that there would be NO problem. THe owner crossed the line, though, when she began to make little snippy comments about how this kind of dress would have fit if I had "lost a little weight while it was being ordered." Grrrrrr...

At this point, I'm wary (and weary) but I agree to see the seamstress because I really want to wear the dress...plus, there had been several hundred smackers invested in it. While we're waiting for her to make her rounds (she lives in another city), mom calls the shop and tries again to get them to simply exchange the dress because I'd told her that the dress manufacturer could do so, according to what I'd found on the net. In fact, the manufacturer's website said that their dresses run 3 SIZES smaller than "Street clothes", and at least 1 size smaller than other makers. The owner then lashes out and literally yells at mom, calling her, quote, a "stupid, ignorant liar who should have known that wedding dresses ran very small in the first place!" After mom hung up on her, the owner calls back 3 times in the same night to apologize, and offers to pay for the alterations herself.

Today, I saw the seamstress. She took one look at the dress and said that to be honest, she wasn't sure that anything could be done to make the dress fit and look "right". THe lace-up thing would be VERY difficult to do without screwing up the back..then, I found out that the owner had LIED to her, too, telling her beforehand that I had been measured and bought the wrong size against her advice!! THe seamstress literally turns blood red with anger once she realizes what the owner has done, and says that she will do everything in her power to fix the dress, even if it takes getting the help of a top seamstress in a larger city. She also said that she will charge the owner triple price for the work

One of the salesgirls (NOT the owner, and not someone who was there the other days that I was in the shop) actually gave me and mom a hug and CRIED when she realized what her boss had done to us. Bless her heart, she did everything she could to help condsidering the circumstances, and I did take pains to be calm and civil with her--it wasn't her fault, and she actually said that she couldn't order another dress without her boss firing her!

So, here i sit, uncertain about the fate of my dress. My wedding is set for April 19, and I am quite nervous...I'm also wondering if I would have grounds for legal action if the dress cannot be fixed, as I was was not measured or informed that wedding dresses run in a totally different universe as far as sizing goes.

WHat do y'all think?

[Paul Victorey]

Well, as to legal action, I think it's a waste of time and money all around, considering that it's a couple hundred dollars.

On the other hand, I think you're certainly within your right to demand a refund or an exchange for a wedding dress that fits. Is this a store that is part of a larger chain? If so, write to the store owner's boss and explain the situation. Don't use any foul language, but words like "ridiculous", "outrageous", etc. won't hurt.

Otherwise, persist in your efforts to get the store manager to refund your money. Complain to the manager at a time where you know there will be a lot of people waiting in line, and make sure they can hear you (but don't yell, if there is any yelling at all, it should only come from the owner). If the owner realizes that she's going to lose business over the issue, she may be willing to be more reasonable.

[dldz]

Wow LitWit ! Sorry to hear about the dilemma
I don't know what to tell you except I hope the wedding goes smoother,it sounds like they are attempting to make it right but it's not something that can wait till the last minute.The owner screwed up so she should make it right.
Don

[LitWit]

hey guys, thanks for the replies...

To answer your questions: Paul, the store is independently owned and the owner also owns another shop in a city about 20 miles from my hometown that has been in business for years. Actually, the seamstress told me (out of earshot of everyone else, of course), that this is not the first time by far that she's had to "pull something out of her butt" to try to fix a wedding/prom dress because the owner neglected to measure someone. Convieniently, I also noticed a huge "NO REFUNDS" sign on the front door when I went there today, a sign that was NOWHERE to be found the other times I was in the shop. THis leads me to believe that I'm probably not alone in this kind of situation and that the owner is now trying to backpedal to save her arse.

I see what you're saying about the legal action, too... the dress was about $550, and to be honest it would heap added stress on an already stressful time. But you're right, I do want either my money back or, even better, a dress in that style that FITS. What has me so angry is that a few minutes of time spent to take my measurements or at least warn me about the manufacturer's funky sizing would have prevented all of this.

Don: Thanks for the support, man

[Mac Medic]

Generally the entire wedding industry works this way, no refunds on Photo's Cakes etc... But for Dresses this usually only includes custom fit, not standard sizes. I would recommend calling your local comsumer action center and asking them for advice before seeking a lawyer. As you say the manufacturer does accept returns, why not deal directly with them and exchange the dress yourself?. Another good thing to get your way is to picket the store on their busy days, just be sure not to harass anyone and stick to the facts only, write it down print a flier and hand it to customers as they walk into the store. Perfectly legal to do as long as you dont stretch the truth in any way. And be careful with the other wedding plans, get things in writing especially from the caterer and the photographer. Also try to pay with a credit card as you have charge back rights. Visit this site and do some searching on weddings for some tips.

www.clarkhoward.com

Good Luck, and congratulations to you and your fiance.

[Colonel Sanders]

If the dress maker will exchange the dress but the vendor is refusing to do so, I would let the manufacturer know about this vendor not letting you exchagne the dress.

Logan

[sdkfz]

another point would be the method of payment, you can dispute a charge on a credit card......

[Tuf]

Never accept anything you don't want.

[Mac Medic]

But thats the whole point here, she does want it. She just wants the correct one. Not too much to ask really. Personally, I'd be out there every weekend destroying this stores reputation, and deservedly so. The store keeper should know better, but like I said, the entire wedding industry works this way. No customer service what-so-ever. So you end up having to fight for your rights. If this supposed expert said a 10 would fit, who would question that. If the 10 doesn't fit she should be ethical enough to make it right. If not she doesn't deserve to have customers and any legal means should be brought to bare. Including harming her reputation.

[foghat46]

Here's a thought...

Do you live in a city, or in an area with a local TV station & newspaper? Most have a "troubleshooter" segment (or column) and generally like this type of situation, it makes good copy. These guys are tenacious, and they usually get some results, smoking the offender's business rep in the process.

[Colonel Sanders]

Originally posted by foghat46 Here's a thought... Do you live in a city, or in an area with a local TV station & newspaper? Most have a "troubleshooter" segment (or column) and generally like this type of situation, it makes good copy. These guys are tenacious, and they usually get some results, smoking the offender's business rep in the process.

Of course it would probbably be smarter to tell the vendor that you could do that. If you ruin the vendors rep. the vendor won't want to give you good service.

Logan

[Mac Medic]

I disagree. I think if all you do is threaten the Vendor, she is less likely to try to remedy the situation. She's done this before. But to actually produce results that threaten her reputation forces her to publically make a decision to help or not. This will generate better results. You have to remember that companies will try to get away with murder until it's made public, then they back track like mad.

[Alienware_Dude]

Foghat, I like that idea! I may try that the next time I get scammed......

[Colonel Sanders]

Originally posted by oem_guy_2002 I disagree. I think if all you do is threaten the Vendor, she is less likely to try to remedy the situation. She's done this before. But to actually produce results that threaten her reputation forces her to publically make a decision to help or not. This will generate better results. You have to remember that companies will try to get away with murder until it's made public, then they back track like mad.

Either of wich are not exactly good alternatives, but knowing my Dad's experiences, threatening proved to work better for him.

Logan

[LawyerRon]

Clear breach of warranty under the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), ie, breach of "fitness for a particular purpose", (among other things). Possible action for misrepresention in tort if the owner was aware of the falsity of the statement when she made it. You acted in "reliance" on the salesperson's recommendation. This reliance will rise to the level of a "warranty" under the UCC. Liability is clear, the only issue is an acceptible remedy with the limited time you have.

[LitWit]

LawyerRon:

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping that you'd give me a bit of legal insight on the situation. Again, I don't want to take the shop to the cleaners (no pun intended) that much; I'm not persuing this for money, all I want is the same style dress in the right size if the seamstress can't fix it because of the way the dress is made. I'm very nervous because, if it can't be fixed, I will literally not have a dress to wear, and if the store/vendor won't exchange it I will have to pay several hundred more dollars for another dress somewhere else, and fast.

It's strange: I'm seeing stories all over the net about how some shops will order a dress too large so that the bride will have to pay to have the dress taken in, but mine is the first story that I've seen that has anything with the bride being told to order a dress that is too *small*. The embarassment of being paraded out in sight and earshot of other customers while being told "it would have fit if you had just lost weight" (the shop is quite small, did not have a seperate bridal room) only made things worse--it made me feel as though the whole world was looking and thinking of me as a fat pig. Plus, there was NO excuse for the owner insulting my mom the way that she did on the phone--and now that i think back on it, I wonder if her offer to pay for the alterations was because she thought that there would be no way that the dress could be fixed.

I'm planning on calling the vendor tommorrow morning to hear their take on things, will let you know what I find out.

[philwon52]

LawyerRon hit the nail on the head. Remedy? Find another dress shop that carries the same manufacturer. Try the website for them, or get an 800 number for them. Order the right size from another shop, and haved it fitted properly. Get married, go on your honeymoon, then when you get back file small claim against shop owner.

[LitWit]

Hey just thought that I'd give y'all an update...

Well, I got the dress back today, and I'm happy to report that the seamstress WAS able to fix it! She put a lace-up panel in the back like she said that she would--it looks and ties up like an old-style corset (or a shoelace) in the spot where it didn't fit before, and makes up the difference in the back. It now fits beautifully!

I can't sing this woman's praises enough, she consulted with a top seamstress in another city and they both came up with a way to make this solution work. Believe it or not, the dress actually looks *better* than it would have if I had been able to just zip it up in the first place!

As for the shop owner...even though I now have a dress that fits, I'm still not letting her off the hook for the shoddy way she treated everyone else involved in this little saga. At the very least, she might think twice about doing something like this again when she finds out that she's going to have a $700 alterations bill come Monday morning

Thanks so much for everyone's replies and support during all of this, btw. If any of you are going to be in KY Easter weekend, you're invited to the wedding!

[sleepypost]

Try this:

I would see if I could alter the method of sealing up the back. Just trim the zipper and pleat (like you would if you were fitting pants smaller). Thenm decide what method you would like to use to seal it. I think if you found a professional seamstress she could find a perfect matching way of creating a seam that seals it up. Maybe even fit another section behind the V-shape opening in the back, you know like a collar?

I dunno, it sounds like a good idea to a seventeen year-old boy...

[morriswindgate]

SOunds like an up-coming episode of Judge Judy to me.

[Sumdumgi]

Originally posted by morriswindgate SOunds like an up-coming episode of Judge Judy to me.

LOL! I will be watching for it.

[Byte 2.0]

Personally, I think I am going to go into that store and request to be measured for a wedding dress, make a big scene. Demand that I get to try stuff on, And when it is all said and done, demand referrances of their customers.\

Incase you are wondering, i am the one Getting Married to Litwit.

[dldz]

Originally posted by byte Personally, I think I am going to go into that store and request to be measured for a wedding dress, make a big scene. Demand that I get to try stuff on, And when it is all said and done, demand referrances of their customers.\ Incase you are wondering, i am the one Getting Married to Litwit.

I think that both of you in wedding dresses would be a little overkill don't you ?
I'm glad you got it worked out and I hope everything else goes smooth. . . what time is the reception ?

[morriswindgate]

Byte - As a true southern gentleman of culture and also being from Oak Ridge, may I ask you why you are marrying a Northern Hick?
Congrats though if that it what you want.

[Parker742]

Well.....Being a kid and all I'm sorry to say I have no advice.But I wanted to say congratulations to you and your fiance.

[Sauron]

Congrats And good luck Hope you don't have that type of trouble with people like that in the future

[LitWit]

Originally posted by morriswindgate Byte - As a true southern gentleman of culture and also being from Oak Ridge, may I ask you why you are marrying a Northern Hick? Congrats though if that it what you want.

Morris, I'm gonna assume that was a joke. If not...well, them be fightin' words, buddy