Overpopulation

[TimPoet]

Originally posted by mystvearn Now we are going to another topic-capitalis. CEO's willdo anything to keep earning what they have. Everyone will think for himself when they are forced to survive-basic instinct

Actually, this whole discussion is based on capitalism. It's the hindrances to true capitalism that cause population problems.

[mystvearn]

Capitalsm is the only thing that work. Communist failed, Feudal failed.

[avx]

I rather like capitalism...essentially the ideals behind it are the "American Dream" but as was mentioned before...its the greed that causes the real problem. People are always trying to keep an upper hand...even when they dont need it..

[mystvearn]

and sometimes it looks like using diplomatic channels to get what they want...

[Andrewxcav]

in pure capitalism corperations are forced to make life better-faster-cheaper, to meet the demands of the concumers

[avx]

Whens the last time anyones life was ever made better-faster-cheaper by any corporation...?

[doctorgonzo]

All one has to do is look at the source of that news article to determine its validity.

As the third world (slowly) keeps on industrializing, birth rates will drop, and the world population will stabilize. In fact, in many places, such as Russia, the population will start to drop precipitously in the future if no other forces counteract it. We aren't doomed to a Malthusian future.

That said, what is of concern is the standard of living that people can have. Everybody has a "footprint" corresponding to their standard of living, and the higher your standard of living, the larger your footprint. For example, people with high standards of living eat more meat; that meat requires crops for feed, and those crops need land to grow on. Same thing applies to water, coal and natural gas for electricity, etc. For fun, you can go here to see what your footprint is. For Americans, it seems to be around 20 acres per person; there are about 6 acres of land per person on the planet.

Of course, technology and productivity increases will make it easier to sustain more people from the same set of inputs, but it does make you think.

[Computer Hobbyist]

The "footprint" concept is important, but with all such studies you need to check the science behind the charts before reaching any conclusions. Often the person creating the "footprint" will have a bias one way or another. His study results will be affected by that bias either as a result of knowing deception or, more often, an unconscious flawed study design.

"Higher standard of living" is a value loaded term. Every body in the first world has a diferent standard of living than his or her grandparents. Whether that standard of living is higher is a value judgment.

CH

[Andrewxcav]

Originally posted by avx Whens the last time anyones life was ever made better-faster-cheaper by any corporation...?

There is no pure capitilism though

[Computer Hobbyist]

Andrew,

Don't worship capitalism. Capitalism is not a god. It is not a religion. It is simply an attempt to explain how things work. If an explaination that more accurately or fully discribes human economic interaction comes along, dump capitalism and adopt it as a working model until something better comes along.

Pure capitalism, like pure communism, has never existed, except in the mind of some warped dreamer. It can't exist, because pure capitalism doesn't mirror reality.

CH

[Andrewxcav]

duely noted

[TimPoet]

CH,
But capitalism buried communism....

[SARGE]

Originally posted by avx Whens the last time anyones life was ever made better-faster-cheaper by any corporation...?

When SBC launched their DSL.

[mystvearn]

Originally posted by TimPoet CH, But capitalism buried communism....

communism is not good either

[ktkendall]

Originally posted by SARGE When SBC launched their DSL.

GOOD ONE!

[Computer Hobbyist]

I don't know how to explain this, except to say that communism was another attempt to explain how things worked. In the late 19th century and early 20th century, it was promoted as an economic "religion" or "god" by some well meaning, but very wrong, people. Other folks, like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro etc.tried to spread the "religion" as religions have often been spread by both the word and the sword. Communism, as a macro economic theory, failed to fully predict or explain how things work. In short, the Russians learned the hard way that applying Communist principals to an economic problem didn't solve the problem. The faithful followers of Communism, the religion, lost faith and Communism failed.

We in the West would do well to learn from the Russians and others who followed Communism the religion. Economic "isms" are all false religions. They are instead efforts to explain how things work. In the case of Communism, millions died because the Russians were unwilling to modify their religion to fit the world in which they lived. The Russians were not the first to refuse to modify their religious vision when confronted with a more complete understanding of the world, nor will they be the last.

CH

[avx]

Very well put CH

I like Dennis Millers take on communism:

"Communism is one of those things that looks real good on paper, but it just aint gonna work."

Its a paradox

[doctorgonzo]

Capitalism didn't win; communism lost. It may sound like just a semantic difference, but it does matter a great deal in examining history.

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by mystvearn and sometimes it looks like using diplomatic channels to get what they want...

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.
Will Rogers