Look at this idiot...

[avx]

http://www.indystar.com/print/articl...-6489-009.html

I dont care how you look at it, this kid is an idiot..

How exactly did he think this was gonna help?

And when did the DHS say that airport security was inpenatrable?

[TwoRails]

Ya, I read about that today... He would have been called brilliant (or something) if he would have gotten a contract first to test the security. Being a vigilante, however, does make him not to bright...

[avx]

The first thing I think is..Hes a 20yr old American baby faced young man, take about 50% of security off of him just for that, the other is, no one ever said that airport security was unbeatable, and this doesnt help point out any ways to fix seurity, we already know how to do that, double the securtiy force, make airport security more thorough, and eliminate laziness and fatigue from airport staff...and thats just shy of turning water into wine..

This doesnt do anything but reinforce the confidence in a terrorist who might be plotting something like this...

The other thing that really just burns me up is that fact that he refused to sign up for the draft...he just denies the american goverment, refuses the PRIVILAGE to defende his country...JUST BURNS ME UP!!

The errogence of this kid is absolutly amazing...

[Sauron]

Mmm shrugs, I think its very interesting. Shows our great security system and how our government is lying to us.

[sdkfz]

No security system is perfect, there has to be a way to unlock it and once that exists there is a way to pick the lock.

There is only one way to make an airport comepltley safe for air travel - close it

As an aside, locked boxes fascinate the human animal - be it a computer OS, network or airport security system. There are a certain groupm that just can not walk away

[Werewolfdaddy]

Something like this is only going to make the office of homeland security stronger and our constitution weaker. This just gives them another reason to hoop and holler and beat on thier chests about how unsafe we are as a society. And the only truly safe society is one in which everyone does what they are "TOLD:" no questions asked. I don't want to live like that.

[Brown Hornet]

he is still looking at 10 years in the joint.i say he should get some time behind bars and teach the punk a lesson and make an example of him.what do you all think

[Confused]

I think our priorities are misguided. We should be learning from this kid rather than prosecuting him. They reported on Fox news this morning that he wrote a letter to them outlining what he was going to do.

I have a daughter that flies frequently and I would like to think that security would be better than that. I knew that when they wanted to make the airport screeners federal employees that things wouldn't improve. I've known too many goverment workers (local, state & federal) and it is next to impossible to get rid of the slackers.

This is a prime example. Rather than get rid of those responsible for letting this happen, they want to prosecute the kid.
Chas

[doctorgonzo]

The reason he didn't sign up for the draft is because he is a Quaker. Quakers are true pacifists, not pacifists of convenience. Forcing somebody to kill against their religion isn't exactly an American thing to do, now is it?

I do not think he is being arrogant at all. I think he is being completely sincere. He is just a peaceful guy looking to prove how ineffective our airport security is. If he wanted to be arrogant about it, he wouldn't have signed his name to those e-mails or even told the TSA anything. He would have dared the TSA to find him and taken up some stupid techy moniker like "The Malevolent Bat." (I'm great at techy monikers, aren't I?)

He didn't go about this the right way, but if we don't learn from this we are the idiots.

[crjdriver]

From one who deals with airport security every working day, I can unequivocally state that the security can be greatly improved. The problem is how much convenience do you want to give up? Real security takes time; do you want to show up at the airport 2-3 hours early for your flight? Some foreign carriers conduct interviews of their passengers; this takes time. The cursory inspection you are given relies on technology rather than on common sense / experience of the person[s] conducting the screening. The technology can be circumvented.

Those of you who think airport security is a joke are correct. It is not difficult to get a knife / utility knife through the “improved” security. No, I will not go into detail about how to accomplish this task. Have you ever wondered what TSA stands for? Thousands Standing Around.

[not important]

Only in America.

[avx]

Originally posted by doctorgonzo The reason he didn't sign up for the draft is because he is a Quaker. Quakers are true pacifists, not pacifists of convenience. Forcing somebody to kill against their religion isn't exactly an American thing to do, now is it?

What pacifist brings banned weapons aboard several planes to prove a point? Didnt he think that would bring a little aggression his way, whether it being from someone like me who just thinks hes an idiot and could use a good kick in the head(a few good kicks actually), or from the goverment for doing something some blatenly dangerous...or what was he gonna say if some found the weapons he was carrying?? "Dont shoot! Im a pacifist trying to prove a point!"

This kid was just looking for some attention, and thought this would make him look like some sort of rebel for the people...

Maybe his next point will be the lack of security for cute little white kids in prison for doing something REALLY dumb! I hope he has fun proving his point there...

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by avx What pacifist brings banned weapons aboard several planes to prove a point? Didnt he think that would bring a little aggression his way, whether it being from someone like me who just thinks hes an idiot and could use a good kick in the head(a few good kicks actually)... Maybe his next point will be the lack of security for cute little white kids in prison for doing something REALLY dumb! I hope he has fun proving his point there...

You may think he's an idiot, but threatening violence against him or wishing harm to come to him is quite inappropriate and helps you argue your point.

Like I said before, if he were arrogant or trying to get attention he would have done one or more of the following: hidden his name, contacted the media instead of (or in addition to) the TSA, led authorities on a treasure hunt, avoided arrest, made statements at his hearing about how he is a political prisoner, etc.

He's a white hat, not a black hat. It's actually pretty simple. Airline security is a joke, it was a joke three years ago, and it continues to be a joke now, despite new bureaucracies or media reports to the contrary. One person just got sick of hearing about it and decided to do a little experiment to prove otherwise. The execution of the experiment was unwise, but the results were pretty unequivocal.

What would have happened had he been caught? Well, he would have been sent to jail, which is the law. But he thinks (and many others think as well) that the threat of the law was less important that the action he believed in. Kinda like those people who broke the law by refusing to return escaped slaves to their masters.

[Iman74]

He is a vigilanti and nothing more. I think vigilanti's are the worse kind because they believe they don't deserve to be punished for they are proving a point.

Now on a different note, whether airport security is still a joke or not, terrorists are not stupid: they really are not. With that said, do you really think they will do the samething twice? I think they would come up with a new plan if anything.

[pam123]

This was a dumb kid stunt with more than a little selfrighteousness added in.
I don't think his being a Quaker is either an explanation or an excuse.
I agree about airport security being a joke though.
They've endangered the Constitution but they still won't do the basic physical work needed , and spend the money for it, to secure the airports.

[avx]

We need one of those things from Total Recall, you guys know what Im talking about? Its like one huge X-Ray wall, and dozens of people can pass through at once, and the thing auto detects materials and outlines of banned objects...

It may seem silly but we are getting to the technological point where something like that is not so unbelievable, and would be a suffucient protocal in airport security.

[TwoRails]

I haven't read anymore on it, but somebody at work today brought up a very interesting point. A box cutter, without blades, is not illegal. Modling clay is not illegal. And so on...

So, does anybody have any details on if there were actually blades in the cutters? or any other items that are acually illegal???

[Iman74]

Is carrying a gun on a plane without bullets illegal?

Assuming it is legal, will they allow it?

Will they allow a box cutter without blades?

I think not.

[cdnref]

I don't think he should spend a great deal of time in the maybe 6 months at the least. I think the he opened the NTSB (I think, I'm cdn) eyes to allow the fact that their security meathods are not working. Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get!

[TwoRails]

Originally posted by Iman74 Is carrying a gun on a plane without bullets illegal?...

First, please note I'm not defending this guy. Second, yes guns are illegal, but empty box cutters are not. Finally, *if* they didn't have blades, then his real defense attorny does have a real good argument. His actions will most likely put him in the slammer, but not modling clay.

[BUGNUT]

We all agree this guy is a nut. On the other hand what if a bigger nut found the stash of box cutters? We could have a 9/11 all over again because of a missguided prank.

I was in Miami a few months ago and in front of me was a guy trying to go through security with a few spent bullet casings. They were from his dads military funeral that he just attended. How do the spent bullet casings constitute a risk?

Bugnut

[Strider]

While I not saying what the "Nut" did was Ok, it does show flaws in security when flying. But there will be always problems with security, but that is ok as long as they try improving security without giving up our civil liberities. We've have giving up certain civil liberities as it is, because of what happen on 9/11. However I am willing to risk a little slack in security, but not blantant which this was - if it means I can keep the ones that we still have. You would think with Today's Technology something like box cutters wouldn't never be able to get on an airplane.

[TimPoet]

I can truthfully say that DocGonzo and I agree on something (imagine that, Doc). I think the guy made a great point.
He showed a weakness in the system. There is no cause for anger nor prosecution. He's bucking the establishment in the most productive way. He hurt noone and his actions may very well save the lives of others.
Relax, everybody. It's all good.

[avx]

Originally posted by TimPoet He showed a weakness in the system. There is no cause for anger nor prosecution. He's bucking the establishment in the most productive way. He hurt noone and his actions may very well save the lives of others. Relax, everybody. It's all good.

But Tim, everybody knows about this weakness, its not like we forgot how 9-11 happened, we know security isnt perfect, we know there are even ways to get around the provided security, but this is not how you improve it...This is how you reinforce in a terrorists mind that THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT, and bring down the confidence the American public has in airport security(what little there is left..)

and who does he think he is to do this? Just conduct his own little experiment, blatenly ignoring common sense and the law itself.

He didnt do anything but break the law...he didnt open anyones eyes, he didnt accomplish some incredible task, all he did was break laws, and endanger other passengers(or should we call them guini pigs, cause thats basically all they were in this little experiment). What if someone saw these packages, and flipped out, beat the kid to death? caused a massive panic on the plane...what if it happned like that??

I remembered this quote from one of our members, sorry, I cant remeber who though, but I think it fits perfectly:

"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

I can honestly say I never fully understood that quote until now...

[TimPoet]

No, not everybody knows about this weakness. The powers to be do need to understand their vulnerability. The American people have almost absolute trust in security, look at how many of them are flying.
Who does he think he is? An enterprising American using his creativity....
Really, it's going to be ok, AVX. Sometimes it's okay to stick your neck out and question authority. But not if you're active duty military....

[avx]

Originally posted by TimPoet Really, it's going to be ok, AVX.

LoL - A good friend does that to me all the time...I get pissed about something and he belittles me like a child with remarks like that..."Relax, breath, breath", "Calm down, your gonna hurt yourself" etc, etc...

Not that I feel your belittling me or anything, I just find it funny...

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by BUGNUT We all agree this guy is a nut. On the other hand what if a bigger nut found the stash of box cutters? We could have a 9/11 all over again because of a missguided prank.

Certainly not. What happened on 9/11 will never happen again. Prior to that date, what usually happened when a plane was hijacked was this: people hijack a plane, it flies to some airport in the middle of nowhere, negotiators spend hours trying to make a deal, a deal is made, everybody is safe. Thus, it was in the passengers' best interests just to sit there and not do anything. Once in a while, something would go wrong and people would die, but that wasn't the rule and it was usually a few people. Again, it was in the passengers' best interests to sit there and wait it out. That is what I would have done.

Now, the rules have changed. Never will passengers just sit there if somebody tries to take over a plane by force. Even on a small plane, I think that the 90 passengers who weren't terrorists would do all they could to subdue the five people with boxcutters. I would be surprised if a group of people would ever take flight control of a plane again.

That's why these porous security measures are so pointless. We are fighting what happened in the past, not what will happen in the future. It is like playing football and getting burned by some bizarre play, like an improvised hook-and-ladder from Randy Moss to Moe Williams, and then setting up your entire defense around defending against that same play.

What this guy did was not terribly bright, but if he can do it easily, then so can other people, and rest assured that some nutcase with bad intentions will try to do so.

[Iman74]

I sort of agree with you Doc, but I am true believer unless you can prove it, then it is not true. There is no way we can guarantee it will never happen again. What I do believe is the terrorists are not stupid people. Granted their plan worked quite well, but just because it worked so good does it make sense to do it again when we are trying to look for it? I think not, next time it might be something else. Next time, yes, I don't think this will be the last time we are attacked in one shape or form. It might be tomorrow, a week, or a month: as an American I think we get a bit cocky and it takes an event like this to show us how non-invicible we are.
Granted our hit was nothing like the hit my parent's home country received in Croatia. Things got so bad there people were moving to Germany to get away from it all. Just be thankful this is all we suffered.

[doctorgonzo]

I'm not saying that it is impossible for it to happen again, I just think that people will be waiting for it. I am sure that when those planes were hijacked on 9/11, the passengers were scared but expected to go through the normal routine, at least at first. Now, however, if terrorists try to overrun the cockpit of a plane, about 100 people will be fighting them and will take the plane down themselves if they have to instead of seeing it turned into a missile against a ground target.

I am sure that there will be another attack, but it won't take the form of people with boxcutters taking over a plane.

[avx]

Amazingly, I will agree with Doc too..

If we all remember, it was because someone got through on a cell phone that the fourth plane went down in a Pennsylvania field, instead of Camp David, some very brave people found out what was going to happen, and they over powered the terrorists and took it down themselves.

I sometimes wish we remembered and honored them as much as we do those involved in the Trade Center towers, they deserve it...