Fraud on ebay?

[peter8d9]

I was looking at cars for myself tonight and came across an intersting beauty. It was a 1968 SS 350 Camero but something was a little odd. The buy it now price was 8900. Right there I was wondering what was going on as you cant get something like this in the shape they're advertising for less than 10-12k. It was for preapproved bidders only so I sent an email to get approved and have some questions answered. Here is the email I received in response:

[I]From: Born To Be Wild
To:
CC:
Date: 03/03/04 09:00 pm
Subject: Camaro SS 350
Attachments:

Hello there,
Thank you for your interest in purchasing my item .
First of all I must inform you that currently I'm in Portugal and the
machine is here with me .My faher, who died two keeks ago was the first
owner of the car; He bought it directly from a local dealership in Ohio.
The machine is in great condition ,only 126000 miles on it,no damage,no
scratches or dents, no hidden defects,keept in our own garage.
The machine is an US model with US specs,it passed the test
emissions and comes with all the documents you need to register the
item.
It has a clear title and it can be registerd into your name.
I recently ordered a new car from a dealer down here and i
need the cash in the next few days to pay for it.
The price I hope to obtain is $8,800 USD (this price includes the
shipping and insurance) and if you agree with this price we can start to
complete the transaction. I have to tell you that I have other serious
offers that I
have to consider and I will make a decision regarding this sale function of
time of payment and price.
i will shipp the car using KLM 5-7 air days delivery, and i will cover all
taxes.
We can make this COD, but if you want to keep the car for you,
then you have to make a down deposit with 2,000 USD.
So email me back if you ae intersted and you have the cash.
The car will be shipped from Portugal and i will cover the shipping
costs and insurance.You will not have to pay additional taxes,just only the
price for it.
Let me know!

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech
Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx[\I]


The auction says the person is in the US along with this description
Vehicle Description

Very clean 1968 Camaro SS350 in excellent condition. Unique, custom tangerine over metallic gold color. Original Muncie 4-speed, completely overhauled, and posi- rear end. All original console guages, and "tic-toc-tach". Original engine with HEI ingition, late-model heads and dual exhaust. Sidewinder security system and Sony CD player. Front disc brakes and Cragar Street Star wheels. Clean interior with original "SS" steering wheel. This car is a real head turner.


Something just doesnt add up... I would love to have the car but I'm not planning on giving someone 2000 bucks so I can stick my thumbs up my butt.



What gets me is that

[SonicVanguard]

Almost sounds too good to be true. You could put a contigent on it that upon notice from KLM of shipment of the car you'll release the funds from an escrow account.

Dave.

[Markoman01027]

if you have any doubts, dont send any money.
Personally, I wouldn't send him anything.

[oddjob]

I bet he would love to have your money a lot more than you'd love to have that car. As the old saying goes, "If it's too good to be true, it probably is".

[LawyerRon]

Fishy is an understatement.

btw, I saw on the news the other day that fraud regarding the sale of autos on ebay is growing.

[HAL9000]

Sounds too good to me... pass.

[Byte 2.0]

personally, I won't buy a car I can't take for a nice hard test drive.

My current car, the sales man handed me the keys and I was laying rubber before I left the lot. Took it for about a hundred mile run and decided I loved it.

[Karnevil9]

This is no doubt a scam. He is selling a car that is worth much more than the money he is asking, yet the price covers taxes, insurance, and air shipping...from portugal. Do you know how much he would be losing on that deal. Yeah right. The only thing missing from that e-mail he sent you was the laugh track in the background. If it sounds to good to be true, it is.

[Outshined]

Yep, definitely sounds like a scam. DON'T DO IT!

[doctorgonzo]

$2,000 down payment for a car on another continent? No way.

[bobwatford123]

Shipping alone for a vehicle from Portugal would be thousands of dollars. Total scam. He would just sell it over there. I'm sure a car like that would be in high demand in Europe.

[peter8d9]

I checked it earlier today and the auction was gone. I am emailing the seller just to see what lame excuses he is trying to come up with. Here is the current corespondence:


Hi again,
I have earlyer closed my auction because of some serious buyers. They
promised me
that they will buy the car fom me, bt in the end they did not have the cash
to pay me.
Is this a reason for the deposit. Anyway, if you have the cash and you are
decided
to buy the car email me your shipping address and let complete the
tansaction.
Thank you and i am waiting your email asap.



From: Me
To: korv_5@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: Camaro SS 350
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:15:14 -0500

What happened to the car?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Born To Be Wild"
To: Me
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 03:12:28 +0000
Subject: Re: Camaro SS 350

I'm sorry but these pics were taken by my father that treated it like his
own child, I don't have other pics for you now.

Let me know asap!


From: Me
To: korv_5@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Camaro SS 350
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:09:53 -0500

The camero is in Portugal? I must say I'm a bit leary of this deal. It looks
like a nice car but I need to have some piece of mind in knowing that the
car exists and will be sent.

Me


Anyone have any good ideas to screw with him? I want to con the con artist

[shazam]

how about a rubber check

[diver203_98]

I don't think this is the place to discuss how to give one to somebody. You looked into it. Lost nothing but the time you spent writting your e-mail, so I would just leave it at that. Why make matters worse than they could be anyway? Although I haven't dealt with E-Bay so I know nothing about what goes on there. The only problems I heard about with E-Bay is with PayPal. Always be careful, and when it seems too good to be true, it is.

[Karnevil9]

Whatever you do, make sure that it is legal. He is a con artiist. That is his way of life. The thought of doing jail time or having a reptuation as a thief for him is just part of doing business. Is it for you? If you were to write him a bad check you would be commiting a crime and he would probably turn around and report you for it. What does he care. About the best thing to do with him is report him, for whatever good it will do, and walk away knowing that they couldn't scam you.. The chances are good that this is not even a single person but an organized group of people who do this as a living.

[peter8d9]

Who ever said of doing something illegal? I never mentioned giving a bad check or anything of the sort. Just making him feel dumb and fool him like he's trying to do to im sure tons of people.

[Alienware_Dude]

Just tell him the check is in the mail, and when he doesn't get it, make up all sorts of ridiculous excuses. It could become sort of a hobby, you'll be able to drag it on for months.

[Karnevil9]

"Who ever said of doing something illegal? I never mentioned giving a bad check or anything of the sort".

No you didn't, but someone else suggested it. I was just suggesting that you don't go that route.

[peter8d9]

If you are really interested and because we both want a safe
transaction, here is what I believe to be the safest yet fastest
possible way to complete this deal:
Instead of sending the money directly to me which offers no
protection for you I suggest you to send the money through
Western Union because this is the fastest way having Portugal as the
country of destination but using your father's name or any name
you want as the receiver.
After doing that just email me the Money Transfer Control Number
and the name you have used to allow me to check the transfer at
the local Western Union agent. If everything is OK, I'll ship
you the vehicle fully insured next morning.
After you receive and inspect your car just call your local
Western Union agent and change the receiver's name that you have
used with my name to allow me to pick up the money!
This way, although I cannot collect the money I have the proof that
you are serious about this deal.
The main idea about this method is that is much faster than other
services (like escrow or ups cod), but at the same time is just
as secure. Moreover you are in perfect control over the transaction
until you receive the package!
I have used this method in the past and it worked perfectly and i
assure you that it is 100% safe. This is actually what you
want, isn't it? I would also like to note that this method puts the
burden on the seller in this case and not on the buyer.
Hopefully that puts you at ease a little. I am a man of my word and
will withhold my end of the bargain. Let me know what you think.

Sincerely,




Holy toledo batman! He can speak perfect english!

[Karnevil9]

Still doesn't sound right to me. I would go to the FBI web site. They have a list of the most popular scams that are being run out there and how they work. Sometimes you find one that is word for word what you are dealing with.
Ask yourself some questions. Why is he willing to spend thousands of dollars to ship the car to you while he has no way of knowing if you will keep your end of the bargain? What if you are the scam artist and he spends the money for shipping and you don't change the name once you have the ca?.
What is Western Union policy? If he has the name and control number can he change it over himself to his own name? Remember, Western Union is a cash transaction, no bank delay time, No chance to hold up payment. That may be why he "suggested" a Western Union Transaction.
Why is he so knowledgable about all this western union stuf, control numbers and placing it in another name, so he can check? If the situation was reversed, would have known all that?
What are the laws in protugal governing control of money or power of attorney or banking?. Portugal may be very lax about their laws and he may be easily able to collect that money once he has the necessary information. Control number, name of person the money is in etc.
Still smells of scam.

[Edave]

As a seller on Ebay, I would recommend you stay away from this one.
Ebay is posting on their site as well as sending emails, about doing business with western union. As stated, Western Union is the same as sending cash.

I would have a little fun with him by saying " I am able to catch a plane to your location within 48 hours. Please let me know where we can meet so I can inspect the car in person."

This may have him side step a bit

[el_novato]

Funny how he learned to speak perfect English in a relatively short amount of time!!

I agree with Edave, but I'm sure you've already caught on to his scam. There was a report on the news about that Western Union scam. It doesn't really matter what name you put it in. As long as they have the control number to the account, they can collect the money.

Edave, answered your previous question concerning fooling with him. Email him and see what he says, would be interesting.

e.n.