monitor motion blurr

[smeagol2004]

i am sorry if i am posting this in the wrong place, i am new to this.
i have a problem with motion blurr on my games. i have a 19"tft monitor by it works hd-972 modell 900 connected to a ati radeon 9550 256 mb graphics card. i have updated drivers to the catylist 4.9 and i am still having problems.
please can somebody help. thanks

[Panama Red]

Your monitor probably has a slow response time which is causing ghosting. TFT's used for gaming need response times of 16ms or less. Most 19" units are 25ms or more. Check the specs on your monitor for Response Time.

[RJ]

The response time is not an accurate value to determine which monitor is good for gaming, and which not. It's more like a guide.
25ms is fast enough, too. Even 40ms is.

Despite the low reponse time, some TFTs do have ghosting. I've seen it only on Viewsonic TFTs so far.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. You need to get a new TFTs. It is not necessary for it to be 16ms or faster, though.

RJ

[Panama Red]

I'll bow to your knowledge, RJ, but please explain what causes ghosting then.

edit: Think I found the answer.

http://compreviews.about.com/library...aa-crtvlcd.htm

"Finally, the technology behind the LCD screens can cause a ghosting of moving images on a screen against a dark background. This is caused from the fact that while changing the state of the crystals from off to on is fast, the speed at which it can be turned off is about four times slower or more. This tends to leave slight after images on the display while the pixel is being turned from on to off. This can be noticed most in video playback or games where bright objects are moving against a dark background."

[RJ]

Well, I don't really know what causes the ghosting, but I believe it also has to do with the rising and falling times (with both create the response time).

And that time is only the time for the pixel to turn completely on, or off, and thus change from black to white or vice versa.
But when color is involved, the whole thing looks different. Years ago I thought that switching from black to white or vice versa will take the most time, and only changing between colors is faster. But it's the contrary, I've read about it.. . well it was Tom's Hardware I believe.
Changing between colors takes a bit longer, and it also depends on the color how long the change process is gonna take. Some color combinations can have a very high response time, like 70ms, for example, which others are as fast as 25ms.
I don't know what causes this, or why it is different with some manufacturers.

My personal experience was: None of my friend's TFTs or my own displayed any ghosting. And my TFT has a reponse time of 50ms, 25ms rise, 25ms fall. Sounds extremely high, but I don't have ghosting. I also let my friends (even friends who have 19" CRTs and game alot) play on my TFT. None of them noticed any ghosting, even after I asked them to look for ghosting.
When one of my friends got his Viewsonic VG191 it changed. With 25ms, supposed to be very fast, in games, like CS for example, it looked a bit like double pictures on movements. The worst was black on brown (like the black TV in the house in the militia map). It caused a 3" trail. He RMAed it, but the new one had the same effect. He asked Viewsonic, they said it's because they have more pixels to refresh, therefore the effect (which is rubbish. Some laptops have even more pixels (1400x1050) than the VG191 (1280x1024), and no ghosting).
Another friend of mine just got a 17" Philips TFT with 25ms response time. I haven't seen CS (black on brown) on it yet, but other 3D games, like the colorful Worms 3D, for example, and there were no trails. We also played CS, and he didn't complain about the picture. This weekend I'm gonna visit him again and hopefully I remember to check the black on brown thing on his TFT.

The Viewsonic is the only monitor out of them that uses MVA. I don't know if it's related, though.

All I know is, that 25ms is not too high, and that it's more of a guideline anyway (like: keep it as low as possible, comparing to other available models), and if the monitor ghosts, you can't do nothing about it, you need to get another one.

The trails are probably caused by a combination of high response time for a few colors, and a too high fall time.

RJ

[Hi Ho]

Response time is not a reliable measurement. There is an article at Toms Hardware about it. They tested several monitors that supposedly had low response times. only one or two passed the test.

[smeagol2004]

thank you for your help. it is much appreciated. the responce time is 25ms. it looks like i will be going back to the old crt monitor. cheers all

[RJ]

Well, I now know the reason. After doing some research I found a good German website in which it is explained (it's www.prad.de)

As I said, the response time is more like a guide, it's not an accurate value to determine the gaming capability of a monitor.

What really determines how fast the monitor is, is the response gradient. An ideal panel would have a linear response gradient, which means that the time to switch to another color is always the same, i.e. the time to switch from red to green takes the same time as from black to white.
But there are no panels with linear response gradient.

In the past I always thought that the switch from black to white or vice versa would take the longest, because it's the biggest difference, and the change between colors would be faster. But the contrary is the truth.
The response time (time to switch between white and black), is the minimum value, not the maximum. Changes between colors take longer.

And now there is a difference in technology.

MVA/PVA Panels have the worst response gradient. For about 1/3 of the colors that can be displayed, the maximum response time can be about 4 times higher than the minumum response times (which is "the response time" as it is being advertised).
So, my friend who has the Viewsonic VG191, he has a VG191. Response time 25ms. So, for the color change between brown and black, where the monitor caused the 3" trails, the response time must have been somewhere around 100ms. And well, that's a little high.
=> MVA / PVA are bad for gaming, and video.

IPS panels have a more linear response gradient. Their max. response time can be up to 2.5 times higher than their minimum response times, but only for a small amount of colors, usually dark grey and brown colors. A 25ms panel can have a max. response time of 62.5 ms, which isn't really too bad. Since that's only for a small amount of colors, IPS panels should be fine.

Haven't found any info on TN+Film panels, but they are more linear, too, because I have a TN+Film panel, and I don't have trails despite the response time of 50ms, so the response gradient can't be as extreme as MVA/PVA panels.

So, when looking for a TFT, the response time is a guide. If you look at a MVA/PVA panel, multiply the time by four, and you know the maximum response time. And for about 1/3 of all the colors, you will have something between minimum and maximum response times.
When looking at an IPS panel, multiply the response time by 2.5, and you know what to expect for a small amount of colors.

RJ