PCI express woes

[jenesaisquoi]

My husband just built me a new gaming machine for the up and comming eq2 launch. (yes i'm an eq addict)

We used the new p4 775 slot mb with pci express. But the video card we picked up is running like complete junk. So i'm going to return it and try and get something a little better. So far i'm looking into 3 different cards on new egg. And was looking for a few opinions from the more experienced people out there.

The current build we are using is:

MSI 915p combo MB
P4 3.4 Ghz (slot 775)
1 gig ddr (will upgrade to ddr2 at some point)
SB audigy 2 zs
MGE LC-b400 PS
120 Gig SAtA Maxtor drive (can't remember name off the top of my head)
And random canabalized cd/flopy from old computers
ATI Radeon x700


....the cards i'm looking into are as follows

6600GT
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...145-098&depa=0

PCX5900
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...128-198&depa=0

x800xt
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...125-150&depa=0

I notice the 5900 has only 128 mb, but the total sys eff speed is 1100. I'm assuming this card comes stock way overclocked.

The 6800 would be the general "solid buy", and the x800xt just dosn't seem worth the cost atm. It's suprising there is no 6800xt for pci express..which is what i was actually hoping for.

If the x800xt would give me a huge dramatical increase in fps then i might spring for it, but i have very little experince with it what so ever. Have always been a geforce bandwagonier.

Any sugestions, or ideas?

[daveyp225]

x700 running like crap? That sounds a bit odd, as even the x600 cards are expected to outperform the 9800 series. Guys on newegg are reporting the x600 as playing Doom3 with everything enabled at high resolutions. The x700 should be even better.

Did you install the new 4.1 catalyst driver? Did you install a driver at all? An x800xt with no dirvers would probably perform close to an x700 with no drivers installed .

Dave

[jenesaisquoi]

Newest drivers, brand new HD (so didn't have to reformat), if i overclock the x700 to just about where it's about to blow up.

at 488 engine and 515 memory atm.

It performs about just as well as our 2nd computer with a 9800 pro 128 mb with P4 2.66 performs.

If that gives you any indication. We have been playing a lot of tribes:vengence latley. Which runs well with settings turned down. But the second you turn any graphics up it's like someone poured molassass into your rig.

The x700 pro isn't a 16x pipeline eaither. It's only 8x, instead of full 16x for pci express. I also have a feeling the memory used on the chipset isn't great quality either. But then again, what do you expect when it debued for $200 off the bat i guess.

[daveyp225]

Geeze.. I never would have thought that the x700 would be such a bomb.. So you weren't happy with your 9800? Is it a pro/256-bit?

Well.. if you want a good deal on a high performance card, the general approval in this forum is for the 6800GT. It is supposed to perform excellent and is at a decent price. The x800pro would also be an excellent choice for what you want. Either way you go, any game that you buy for the next year to come should probably run @ highest resolution and highest details.

Dave

[jenesaisquoi]

oh no....i absolutly love our 9800 pro, that's the only reason i went with ATI this time. But that computer isn't mine, so i don't get to play on it very often.

It's a 9800 pro 128 MB, and runs better than many other cards i've seen.

BUT this computer is PCI express...and the 9800 pro isn't offered in pci express...sooo.

[Yuanji]

you definately want to go for a switch to the 6600GT then. the FX5900 isn't worth the money

[jenesaisquoi]

And i take it you don't think x800xt is worth the 500 either? =\

I've been told the 6900gt performs on par with the 9800 pro 256. And ours has started that steady decline in the newer games that are comming out.

Personally i play for the amazing graphics and storyline more than the action element that my husband plays for. So when i can't play tribes:vengence or eq2 with near full graphics it upsets me

Has anyone heard of a decent pci express x16 card that will out perform the 9800 pro that i haven't listed here?

[Yuanji]

the 6600GT performs better then the 9800Pro 256MB. the 9800Pro 256Mb has about the same performance as the 9800Pro 128Mb cuz the 256Mb version uses slower RAM type. the 6600GT definately will perform better.

[daveyp225]

Yeah, the 9800pros, whether 256 or 128, are not as good as the newer [top of the line] Nvidia or ATI cards, but are certainly worth the money.. The 9800 series does beat out the x600xt.

You (or whoever you asked) may have mistaken the 256mb 9800pro for the 256mb 9800XT, which is a better, much closer comparison. I cant remember where I saw it, but in an extensive test (many games were used: farcry, cs, doom3), the 6600GT had the edge on the 9800xt, but not by a HUGE margin.

However, since 9800XTs are still going for around 350-400$, I think it would be much wiser to get an x800pro or 6600GT/6800GT.. These cards will allow you to max out all eyecandy in any of the games to come out for some time. The x800XT, in my opinion, is not worth it.. but if you have excess money just sitting around then I'd say go for it!

Dave

[kram 2.0]

Let me be the odd ball here and say that the Radeon X700 Pro is more than a good graphics card. I myself own a Radeon 9800 Pro here and I would switch to the X700 Pro/XT anytime should I have the money and a PCI-E Board. Forget GeForce 6600GT switching...though an excellent card I will admit, it's not worth switching from a X700...performance increase is minimal. Go with the Radeon X700 Pro.

Hope that helps,
kram

[jenesaisquoi]

Errmmm i have the x700pro now, and by the specs it looks faster. But i can personally tell you. It's not.

Turns out the x700pro's are built with a 128 mb interface instead of 256 to support the onboard 256 capacity. The pipeline is 8x instead of pcie 16x. And in comparison between our two current machines the x700 falls well behind our 9800 pro 128 mb card equiped machine.

[kram 2.0]

8X is the AGP "multiplier" not the rendering or vertex pipeline #. The Radeon X700 Pro has 8 rendering pipelines, like the GF6600GT and Radeon 9800 Pro, but is a 16X Native PCI-Express card. I do not know of any 8X (AGP) X700 Pros right now. See what happens if you update the drivers to Cat 4.1 - I do believe very highly that it is not the graphics card but rather the configs. The GF6600GT will perform very similarly to the X700 Pro. In graphics card, the onboard memory (vRAM) matters very little - speed wise, almost no distinction. The Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB performs just a tad under the Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB...like that.

kram

[daveyp225]

Kram, that is what I originally thought as well (a problem with the drivers).. But as jene said, the drivers were updated to the newest. Wouldnt a new card like the x700pro automatically come with the 4.10 catalyst driver?

It doesn't make sense to me either.. that an x700 would perform so badly.. and as previously stated, she even overclocked it..

My guess is that it is a universal design flaw or possibly that just that x700 is not working the way it should..

Dave

[GForce64]

Try downclocking your card to stock, see if that helps.

[Yuanji]

how far have you overclocked it? some cards will downperform when overclocked because of heat issues

[jenesaisquoi]

Overclocked with 2 sys fans and a dragon orb cooling system latched on, it's overclocked to 488 engine 515 mem.

Using fraps i'm getting an average 25-30 fps on T:V

With OC set at adapter defaults average fps is 15-23 ewwwww

Our 9800 pro without OC gets an averge fps of 30-35. With a processor that is a year older, and no pci express.

6.14.10.6483 driver version....most current drivers on ATI site.

[Yuanji]

hmm that is strange... could it be a problem with the motherboard? i'd guess either that or a defective card. the x700 should really be much better then the 9800pro.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by Yuanji hmm that is strange... could it be a problem with the motherboard? i'd guess either that or a defective card. the x700 should really be much better then the 9800pro.

Yes. That is what I was suspecting all this time...the Radeon X700, especially in Pro and XT, should outperform the Radeon 9800 Pro clearly.

kram