PCI - Express vs. AGP

[tomster2300]

Hey,

I'm looking at getting a 6600 GT card for Christmas and I noticed something when shopping around for them. The majority of them are pci - express, and I have an agp mobo. The pci - express video cards are also cheaper than their agp brethren. Should I upgrade to a pci - express compatible mobo and get the card, or should I just try and find one that's agp?

If so, which mobo do you recommend?

Thanks.

[RJ]

Well, I would just get an AGP card, since you have an AGP mobo. While the AGP card is more expensive, it's still cheaper than a new graphics card + mobo + cpu + ram.

And then, the next time, I'd get a whole new PC. But I wouldn't do it now as your present computer is very powerful. That's how I'd do it.

RJ

[GraemeM]

I don't think there's a big difference yet between AGP and PCI-Express. In a generation or two of video cards is when PCI-Express will probably make a difference. In a PC Gamer special, developers of Doom 3 and Half Life 2 (2 of the best graphical games) were asked if PCI-Express would make any difference, and they said it probably wouldn't. Rather than buying a new mobo, you could get a better video card that is AGP (nVidia 6800GT). My new build has no PCI-Express. If there was a nice mobo with it I would of bought it, but by the time I update my video card, I'll probably want a new mobo that supports a better CPU and DDR2, so it wasn't a big deal for me.

[Yuanji]

depends. PCI express are recieving all the new cards, X850, R520. i'm not so sure if they will make AGP versions of it later, i hope they do but if you are starting a new build, go PCI express, otherwise, i would get an AGP card right now.

[tomster2300]

Alright, sounds like I'm sticking with AGP. I'm definately not doing a new build, I dont have the money right now. So you think I'll be able to run games Half Life 2, Doom III, and Far Cry with my current system plus a 6600 GT?

[Yuanji]

i would think so

[Turbo91Bird]

Thats funny that you can find your video card so easily with pci-express.
I can't find any of the video cards I want for pci-express. I am looking for the X800 XT PE or the 6800 Ultra. There is only one X800 XT on ebay right now for 500 bucks and the 6800 ultra is 750 bucks on there. Of course, there are tons of AGP versions of the ones I want, lol

[Yuanji]

it is because the 6600GT is originally PCI express. X800XT and 6800Ultra were AGP cards that got ported over.

[tomster2300]

I just am looking to run high end games (HL2 & Doom) with everything turned up and having them run smoothly and look nice. Hopefully I can achieve this for the present with just updating my video card and not having to upgrade anything else. What do you all think?

[Yuanji]

probably not everything turned up. you could probably get some pretty high settings. i would think high at 1280x768 at least on Doom3 and pretty high settings on HL2

[fedz]

I don't know what display you have, but the 6600GT will play Doom3 and HL2 with ALL the eye candy turned up at 1280x1024. 1600x1200 performance is more limited to the ultra high-end cards.

Interestingly, the 6600GT AGP outperforms its PCI-E equivalent slightly, so Nvidia clocked the memory at 450MHz instead of 500MHz.
Rage3d gave a reason for this performance difference, but I dont remember what it is (much too complicated - something about PCI-E memory bandwidth).

fedz

[tomster2300]

Well that's convenient since my monitor only goes up to 1280 x 1024 anyway, so that should work out well. I thought HL2 was designed for the 9800 pro though, since they were giving away a free copy of HL2 for awhile when you bought a 9800 pro (or was it the highest one?)

How does the 6600 GT compare against a 9800 pro? I know they have the 256 mb versions of the 9800 pro for the same price as the 6600 GT now. Shouldnt the 6600 GT handle these games better than a 9800 pro?

[fedz]

Yep, sure does. It kills a 9800XT, and the 9800pro goes down in the same way. Just search on google, there are a lot of sites comparing the two (6600GT AGP vs. 9800pro).

Here are two from Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2278&p=3

fedz

[tomster2300]

Thanks for all the help. My next question is is the 6600 GT worth buying? I dont want to pay $300 for a 6800 GT, but should I?

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by tomster2300 Thanks for all the help. My next question is is the 6600 GT worth buying? I dont want to pay $300 for a 6800 GT, but should I?

I think you meant GeForce 6800GT on the one you mentioned for 300 USD - or else, it's be one heck of a deal

As of now, the GeForce 6600GT is rather new to the market - although I'm sure the prices will come down to its guarenteed value and will show itself going lower with the 200 USD placed ATI Radeon X800 as its rival, 240 USD for the card compared to the competition might not be terribly bad of a deal given that you can afford to spend 240 USD.

kram

[tomster2300]

No, I'm correct. Look here

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-177&depa=1

The 6800 GT is $320.

Should I buy that one, or would the 6600 GT be enough for a couple of years?

[Yuanji]

that.... isn't a 6800GT. it is a buffed 6800 vanilla that ASUS calls a 6800GT. ASUS kinda screwed up a little because their 6800 normal is a neutered 6800GT

[kram 2.0]

Never mind - the Asus GeForce 6800 GT you have linked to is a marketing strategy - it's technically a GeForce 6800 but overclocked to make it seem like a GT. Nonetheless, that one is not worth purchasing IMO. I'd suggest waiting until 1Q 2005 to see how the Radeon X800 will fair - it's supposed to be in the 200 USD category but with a GeForce 6800-6800GT like performance. Then again, I wouldn't suggest waiting forever - it's up to you.

kram

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by kram8806 Never mind - the Asus GeForce 6800 GT you have linked to is a marketing strategy - it's technically a GeForce 6800 but overclocked to make it seem like a GT. Nonetheless, that one is not worth purchasing IMO. I'd suggest waiting until 1Q 2005 to see how the Radeon X800 will fair - it's supposed to be in the 200 USD category but with a GeForce 6800-6800GT like performance. Then again, I wouldn't suggest waiting forever - it's up to you. kram

if you look at the scores the people are getting with that card, they are recieving 9k in 3dmark03 and a little less than 4k in 3dmark05. a real 6800GT scores 11-12k normally on 3dmark03 and 4.5-5k on 3dmark05.

[Turbo91Bird]

Originally Posted by Yuanji if you look at the scores the people are getting with that card, they are recieving 9k in 3dmark03 and a little less than 4k in 3dmark05. a real 6800GT scores 11-12k normally on 3dmark03 and 4.5-5k on 3dmark05.

The 800XT and the 800XT PE scored that?

[sigmaseven]

No, the 6800 GT of Asus is scoring low, while the regular ones are scoring higher

[tomster2300]

Alright, well I just found something out. I do have around $300 to spend on this card, I thought I had less. So I'm thinking about now getting a reg. 6800. I'm thinking about this one.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product

They're sold out on newegg but they have a few left at my local best buy. There was a $30 difference between best buy and newegg, but I'll pay the extra to get it by Christmas day I suppose. Plus this one comes bundled with Far Cry, (I called and made sure) which is one of the main games I wanted when I bought a card to test out how well it runs.

So, to make a long story short, what do you think?

Plus, do you think this thing will make a good gaming machine with my current configuration? If I had the cash then I would buy DDR 400 ram and upgrade to a 64 bit processor, but right now this is all I have the cash for.

[fedz]

No, the regular 6800 offers at best minimal improvements over the 6600GT. You're much better off with a 6600GT and saving the money for later imo. Don't touch that Asus card, they got something seriously wrong in their 6800 section.

Here; this comparison should give you an idea of the 6800's perfromance

fedz

[tomster2300]

Alright, no 6800 then? If I went with the 6600 GT would that make my computer a good gaming rig with my current configuration? So it looks like I'm back to searching for a good 6600 GT, any suggestion?

[tomster2300]

I found this forum / thread after doing a search on google for a comparison of the two cards.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

I also found this (even though they're in the UK)

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/35506/

They all say hands down to go with the regular 6800.

[fedz]

I've used computers with both cards (my friend has a NU and I built a comp with a 6600GT). Image quality is the same, but 6600GT offers mpeg2 encoding + various other video features which don't work on the 6800. 6600GT (the PCI-E version) also overclocked like crazy - I got it to 610/1150 stable -whereas we had no luck in unlocking pipes or any other fancy stuff with the 6800NU and only mediocre overclocking - 350/780 stable. This meant that the 6600GT actually outperformed the 6800.

As you can see from the benchmarks I posted above the 6600GT pushes the 6800 all the way, and for $60 less. Bear in mind that the AGP version actually performs better than the PCI-E version, and you've got a draw between the two.

IMO a 6800NU isn't worth the money, except if you can unlock some of those elusive pipelines or shaders. At stock speeds the difference is negligible, and you will see no difference except at 1600x1200. Since when did normal gamers without the massive budgets play at 1600x1200? You'll also notice that at those resolutions the framerates get unplayable anyway, so what's the point?

Get a 6600GT with good cooling (chaintech seems to have got it right) and you will have no problem whatsoever playing HL2 and Doom3 with the eye candy on at the right resolution.

fedz

[tomster2300]

I think BFG's 6800 is the best deal since it comes bundled with Far Cry. I would be paying the same price if I were to buy the 6600 GT and Far Cry separately, but in buying them together I get a better card, plus the game I want. I already have Half-Life 2 and need something to run it with.

Any more suggestions?

[tomster2300]

Nobody has any more suggestions?

[fedz]

As you wish, it's your computer . Do you have a link to the card?

fedz

[tomster2300]

Yes, I didnt mean to sound rude. I apologize if I did.

Here is the link

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product

They had it at newegg for $270, but they're all sold out by now. It says sold out on the link, but my local best buy has a few left. I dont know what to do, this just looks like the deal to get right now since it is a better card and it does come with Far Cry. You're probably right though to go with the 6600 GT since it is cheaper, though I want something that will last me a couple of years until I have to upgrade again since pc parts are so expensive.

I think it's time for me to get my lazy butt up and find a job so I can make my own money

EDIT: They dont sell that specific card at tigerdirect, but they do have it for the same price at zipzoomfly.