PCI-E Vid Card Cheaper then X8 Vid Card?

[goodnice]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-364&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...-461&depa=1See how the PCI-E cards look just as good as the X8 cards, yet cheaper?

After taking a look at neweggs Video cards it just plain looks like the PCI-E cards are cheaper to get a hold of and are about as good (if not better considering the price difference) to the x8 cards.

Am I not looking at them right or some thing.

Its just all this considered, woundnt one who buys a PCI-E 260$ MoBO be saving money then one who gets a 100$ x8 Mobo then has to spend more on a x8 card?

Isn't it better to get PCI-E?

[pam123]

You're comparing an X700 to an X800.

[goodnice]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...130-196&depa=1
Ok what about these two then. Yes the expensive one is better but not by much am I right?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...123-148&depa=1

[Yuanji]

you are comparing totally different cards. the X700Pro is meant for midrange video work. it is a less of a gamer's card but has 256MB of GDDR3 to help with vid editing. 6800Ultra is nVidia's top end gaming card. it is meant for heavy duty gaming. the reason that cards with the same chipset cost more or less for AGP or PCI Express is because nVidia has to pay for the HIS chip bridge which changes a PCIE or AGP native card to the other technology

[pam123]

Take a deep breath.
You're getting the whole thing wrong.
Go out to lunch with some buds and shoot some hoops, you need distance.
In no way do you need to buy a graphics card; you're still repeating the same mistake.
Don't buy anything for the next week ( or a lot longer ).
Repeat after me, the 700s aren't it, the X800 you're looking at is also wrong.
Give us a chance to get you a good card and save you some cash (frankly, a lot of cash).
You're about to make a mistake that doesn't have to happen.
Put the credit card down and move away from the keyboard

[goodnice]

Ok, actually I took a nice sneeze which felt pretty liberating.

But first things first.

1# Are you advising me not to get a SLI MoBo with PCI-E or just the card?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-517&depa=1
Cause I'm willing to buy this MoBo baby if its worth the price.

2# I'm going nuts as to whether to get a 260 SLi PCI-E MoBo and be done with it, or get an old x8 MoBo and X8 card?

3# Surely in the long run a SLI PCI-E MoBo for 260 is worth it right, I mean those PCI-E Video cards look cheap.

4# Ok maybe your right about that Video card being for video editors, but no one is telling me on my other "What determines a good Video Card" thread how to understand the differences so all I know is that "DDR3 is the best" and "a good core is good" and "256 is good" and "direct x 9 is nice" and "open Gl is handy" Having "lots of pipe lines is dandy" that’s about all I know.

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by goodnice Ok, actually I took a nice sneeze which felt pretty liberating. But first things first. 1# Are you advising me not to get a SLI MoBo with PCI-E or just the card? http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-517&depa=1 Cause I'm willing to buy this MoBo baby if its worth the price. 2# I'm going nuts as to whether to get a 260 SLi PCI-E MoBo and be done with it, or get an old x8 MoBo and X8 card? 3# Surely in the long run a SLI PCI-E MoBo for 260 is worth it right, I mean those PCI-E Video cards look cheap. 4# Ok maybe your right about that Video card being for video editors, but no one is telling me on my other "What determines a good Video Card" thread how to understand the differences so all I know is that "DDR3 is the best" and "a good core is good" and "256 is good" and "direct x 9 is nice" and "open Gl is handy" Having "lots of pipe lines is dandy" that’s about all I know.

generally, higher numbers means more performance. ATi's X700 Lineup is the midrange lineup and X800 is the high end lineup. X800XT PEs can be found for PCI Express and the new X800XL that is supposed to rival the 6800GT's Price-Performance ratio. don't assume just because the specs are higher means it's a better card. the chipset usually matters the most. you also don't need a SLi board to run PCI Express and it is useless unless you are putting 2 Nvidia SLi capable cards in one system.

[goodnice]

But that SLI PCI-E MoBo can still run a normal PCI-E Card that isn't SLI right?

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by goodnice But that SLI PCI-E MoBo can still run a normal PCI-E Card that isn't SLI right?

yes... but why would you pay an extra 100 dollars for SLI when you dont need it?

[goodnice]

LOL, because by the time I do need it I'll already have the MoBo.

But if I got a x8 Mobo then I'd have to get a SLI PCI-E mobo some day too right so wouldn't I be saving money in getting it altogether now along with a cheap PCI-E Card?

And I still don't know why PCI-E cards that look as good as Ndiva 6600 GT Ultra aren’t that good.

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by goodnice LOL, because by the time I do need it I'll already have the MoBo.

just so you know in case you dont, ATI cards cannot be SLied

[goodnice]

Intresting about the ATI thing, I didn't know, some day thery'll have SLI though probably.

But if I got a x8 Mobo then I'd have to get a SLI PCI-E mobo some day too right so wouldn't I be saving money in getting it altogether now along with a cheap PCI-E Card?

And I still don't know why PCI-E cards that look as good as Ndiva 6600 GT Ultra aren’t that good.

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by goodnice Intresting about the ATI thing, I didn't know, some day thery'll have SLI though probably. But if I got a x8 Mobo then I'd have to get a SLI PCI-E mobo some day too right so wouldn't I be saving money in getting it altogether now along with a cheap PCI-E Card? And I still don't know why PCI-E cards that look as good as Ndiva 6600 GT Ultra aren’t that good.

ATi cannot have SLi simply because it is nVidia's technology. they are working currently on a concept similar (2 card arrays) but it wouldn't ever run on SLi
6600GT simply cannot compare with a 6800GT simply because the 6800GT runs on 256bit mem bandwith and is a faster GPU. there's nothing strange about it.
Sli and PCI express aren't deadlocked together. SLi is a nVidia technology to make both PCI express cards run at 8X instead but can run them both at the same time. bandwith isn't a problem right now. PCI express is a new form of interface that can be daisychained together to provide bandwith for video cards.
An alternative is to buy a PCI Express board but not SLi.

[pam123]

I've got a "relatives" problem this evening but I've got a lot to add to what Yuanji says.
Keep your cash in your wallet till tomorrow; at least.

[LoXish]

The two most important things ina vid card for me is GPU and RAM -- bviously. And you need to strike a balance, if you go for a card that has 256 MB of ram and only 300mhz GPU, you're not going to be perfomring as well when it comes to speed v. performance ratios as you would with say.. the 6600GT which I'm picking up that clocks @ 500mhz GPU and has 128 MB of ram to process.

The more RAM, the more core clock it takes to process that and since no games are REALLY pushing 256 and won't be until 64-bit chips become more viable with a 64-bit OS -- then I'll go ahead and stick to my 128.

Also -- PCIe is def. the way to go over AGP... just a better tech. Not to mention, all boards are going to migrating to PCIe across the board sooner rather than later.

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by LoXish The two most important things ina vid card for me is GPU and RAM -- bviously. And you need to strike a balance, if you go for a card that has 256 MB of ram and only 300mhz GPU, you're not going to be perfomring as well when it comes to speed v. performance ratios as you would with say.. the 6600GT which I'm picking up that clocks @ 500mhz GPU and has 128 MB of ram to process. The more RAM, the more core clock it takes to process that and since no games are REALLY pushing 256 and won't be until 64-bit chips become more viable with a 64-bit OS -- then I'll go ahead and stick to my 128. Also -- PCIe is def. the way to go over AGP... just a better tech. Not to mention, all boards are going to migrating to PCIe across the board sooner rather than later.

just to say a few things, you are misinformed. PCI Express is serial, not parallel, and has a higher bandwith. what ends up happening is that the video card usually does not get signals from the CPU anyways (or it's the other way around) so 2 way transfer isn't necessary right now. also, the 8x bandwith of AGP hasn't even been tapped yet so PCI Express as of now, does not perform "better" then AGP. Now, your chipset speed info is also misinformed. While a 6800GT only has a 350Mhz core, it will run significantly faster then a 6600GT because of the 256 bit RAM, 256MB ram, 8 extra pipelines, 2 extra vertex shaders, and a better core. That being said, PCI express is what i would recommend in going for a new build but not for the reasons you state above but it is just because for future upgrades.

[LoXish]

I didn't say it performed better I said it's a better tech. for the same reasons you stated.

And I was mainly comparing two cards I can actually get my hands on have done the camparison of and that's the GeForce 5500 OC which has 290mhz GPU and 256 MB of RAM vs the 500 MHZ GPU of the 6800GT and only 128 MB of RAM.

6800 is out of the question because I don't have 400$ to drop,

[Yuanji]

Originally Posted by LoXish I didn't say it performed better I said it's a better tech. for the same reasons you stated. And I was mainly comparing two cards I can actually get my hands on have done the camparison of and that's the GeForce 5500 OC which has 290mhz GPU and 256 MB of RAM vs the 500 MHZ GPU of the 6800GT and only 128 MB of RAM. 6800 is out of the question because I don't have 400$ to drop,

the 6600GT is better then the 5500OC because it runs on a brand new architecture of chipsets. It runs more efficiently and has more power which is why it can compete with 256bit cards even though the 6600GT is only a 128 bit card

[LoXish]

Uh huh.

[kram 2.0]

Originally Posted by LoXish Uh huh.

I might sound surrealistic, but what Yuanji is saying is totally correct - the GeForce 6600GT is a newer generation card which makes it more "efficient" and better. There are certain factors you watch out for in a graphics card but some factors outweigh others - for example, the core design is far more advanced in the GF6600GT than the FX5500OC which makes it far far more desirable despite considering the extra onboard RAM and enlargened buswidth.

kram

[fedz]

Also, better memory, more efficient use of bandwidth, cooler running core, more transistors/core (different architecture as ^^^ said), different (faster) clock speeds, better image quality.
We could get really technical here, but the truth is, a 6600GT will cane a 5500 and push a 6800NU all the way, despite looking worse on paper. It also has a WORKING onboard video processor...

fedz

[LoXish]

No no, I agree -- I just feel like we're going around in circles.

[pam123]

Okay.
If you're building a new computer then go PCI-E.
What you did with the comparison was match an X700pro PCI-E ( a good card but about to be discontinued ) with an X800 pro AGP (they won't go in the same motherboard and X800pro is a much higher spec). That's why you saw the price difference.
That 700 card was aimed at video editing on a modest budget and it does that well and is a decent game card ( check specs it's 128 bit memory and the speed is much slower), the X800pro is for gamers (256 bit memory and the speed is much faster).
PCI-E cards are the coming standard along with DDR2 ram and, if you're building a new rig, they're the way to go. Just make sure you keep up with the new specs before you spend the money.
For now there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI-E. This will change eventually but not in the next year or two.
So what are you doing?
If you just want a new ATI card for an existing rig then wait for an AGP X800XL (and it better get here soon).
If you're going to build a new rig then begin doing research so you can have a rig with an upgrading future.
If you want SLI then it's NVidia (and your bank account must be fantastic) until ATI comes up with a version of it's own (and your bank account still needs to be fantastic).

[goodnice]

LOL.

Ok, what I am doing is building my own computer brand spanking new from scratch.

My budget is around 900$ - 1,000$. (Quite a bit but it used to be 600$)

What I'm tiring to do is get parts that will future proof me nicely for 4-6 years. My last computer had a bad PSU that couldn't be replaced cause the whole system was a Compaq... long story short here I am and I don't want a repeat of that again.

Here is what I've got so far.

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...103-924&depa=0

CPU (Socket 939 & 64-Bit)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...103-502&depa=1

Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...144-122&depa=1

(This was my MoBo (No, Darn it)) Its out of stock now.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...131-517&depa=1

P.S. How long usually are MoBos out of stock at newegg?

[Yuanji]

it varies. sometimes, it's a couple of days, sometimes a couple of weeks. i'd probably expect this one to take around a week or 2 to replace.

[pam123]

Wait!!
Call this a no brainer, you need info and it isn't out yet.

[goodnice]

ah found the ETA.

ok don't worry I got until 1/4/2005 to figure this out.

[goodnice]

Should I consider this card?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...133-103&depa=1

Too late I already ordered it!

I bet this will give me enough FPS to run DOOM 3

[Joke]

(Note: Sorry lame joke)

[Yuanji]

well, that card runs doom3 worse then a 6800GT or Ultra do just in case you are wondering. Doom3 is playable but that card is really meant for workstation apps, not gaming. that's why nVidia and ATI make workstation lines and desktop lines.

[pam123]

A Quadro card?
Are you crazy?
What's your excuse for this stupidity before I alert the mods?