Video card upgrade musings

[freakitchen]

In an attempt to grab 10 minutes away from Turkey, wrapping paper and Harry Potter on TV, I thought I'd ask for some opinions on a video card upgrade.

My main system based on socket 939 has seen a few upgrades since it was built about 2 years ago, and now benefits from a dual core and 2GB of RAM (see specs below). One thing I never upgraded, however, was the video card - since I haven't done much in the way of gaming recently. That said, I'd always intended to upgrade the video card, and think it's about time to 'balance' this system out. My enjoyment of the few games I have tried to play recently has been tempered by the fact that the 6600GT just doesn't cut it with high graphical settings.

So the way I see it, I have two options at the moment.

1) Buy a top spec video card. I'm prepared to spend over £200 on this card, so with that in mind I could afford the HIS ATI x1950xt-x card. I'm pretty sure that would power any game out, but I have my reservations....

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-060-HT

2) Buy a 'mid range' video card. Do i really need to spend as much as the above? Could I save £100 and still get great performance from a card like the x1950Pro? When I bought the 6600GT 2 years ago, I paid a very similar amount to what this card costs, and was more than satisfied with the video quality it provided for about a year.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-065-HT

What's concerning me is this DX10 business. Does it really make sense to buy a top of the range DX9 card at the moment? That said, I probably won't be upgrading to Vista until at least the first service pack - does this make DX10 a non-issue for me?

Any thoughts appreciated folks

FK

[flanzig1]

Could go with something like this:http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-025-BG
Which would be an improvement over the 6600 and depending on the game should do pretty good. By the time you get Vista, there should be a better range of cards for DX10.

[Mr.Ferrari]

X1950Pro is a really capable card. It hits the sweet spot between the X1900GT and X1900XT.

I mean unless you plan on running on 16x12+ resolutions on high, you will be able to handle any game out there for a while.

If you do want a bit more raw power then consider the X1950XT. Its basically a X1900XT, but, with new memory chips and added voltage, resulting in a heavy overclock. I've seen this puppy beat stock X1900XTX 512mb's.

I dont really advocate X1950XTX as by the time you will really need DX10 capabilities, ati and nvidia will have well established a full line-up of cards. I'm personally waiting for ATi's own entrance into DX10 with it's R600 platform. Its supposed to fully incorporate DX10 shaders and other capabilities which nvidia 8800's have not.

[freakitchen]

Thanks for the advice, both - I think I'm going to take it. 2 Years ago i spent around £130 on a video card and it's been just fine for me for almost that time. If spending another £130 gets me another 2 years, i'll be more than happy - and I imagine it will be time for Vista for even myself by then!

Regarding the suggestions you both made - any opinions between them? I've been perfectly happy with Nvidia - and with a budget of around £140, i could get the 7900GS

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-013-EA

For the same price, the x1950 Pro

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-065-HT

Any opinions between them, and Mr F, would I see much performance benefit from the X1950XT you linked to? My 19" widescreen runs games at 1440x900 (when i can get them to!) - if that makes a difference. Haven't heard anything good or bad about Connect 3D as a manufacturer, either - and it appears to be the only one Overclockers has.

Cheers,

FK

[The_YongGrand]

The X1950 Pro is quite capable of very modern games. However I'm not sure of the further support of DirectX 10. You gotta wait until the companies started to implement them later.

[jfk]

The X1950 Pro will slap that 7900GS silly. No comparison between them. For the money, the X1950Pro is a MUCH better deal. You can take a look here and see the comparison between them:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphi...=607&chart=211

That's the two cards, you can change the game/game settings at the top just below the card names. No matter what you run, you will see the ATI card outperforms the 7900GS.

[freakitchen]

Thanks for that link JFK, bookmarked

Didn't realise there was such a difference between the two cards, so cheers for pointing that out . The HIS x1950Pro I'm looking at is actually clocked higher than the benchmarked one at Tom's hardware, so it continues to look a good option.

FK

[Mr.Ferrari]

I also second the x1950pro choice.

However to answer your previous question, yes Connect3D has been in this market for a very long time now. The usual response to them is "meh" as you said, neither positive nor negative. Brands like them are usually overshadowed by Sapphire and HIS due to sapphire usually being the cheapest, but still offering great service. And HIS too because of their awesome aftermarket coolers.

Remember though, unlike with Nvidia, where there is a significant difference in customization between brands, ATi keeps strict rules with their manufacturers. Thats why ati cards tend to be more consistent between different makes.

The X1950XT will be a notable performance leap over the pro. However its up to you to justify whether or not the price is worth it. It excels in pure raw power: high clockspeeds and beefier shaders. But it does come with the stock ati cooler, and since it uses high voltages you will note hairblower style noise and more heat.

Of course..Since this is a in between card for future DX10, I would try to spend as little as possible while getting the job done.

[jfk]

My brother in law just ordered the HIS X1950Pro today on my recommendation, so I am putting my money (or his) where my mouth is. As a tweener card waiting for DX10, it is an excellent option. The aftermarket Arctic coolers on them do a great job.

[freakitchen]

Originally Posted by Mr.F Of course..Since this is a in between card for future DX10, I would try to spend as little as possible while getting the job done.

Very good advice, and that's exactly what I think I'm doing with the Pro. Overclockers announce their weekly reductions tomorrow, so I'll wait 'till then to order and see if my luck is in or not on the HIS card. I think it's a pretty good price regardless.

Thanks all for your responses.

FK

[Tin]

Originally Posted by jfk The X1950 Pro will slap that 7900GS silly. No comparison between them. For the money, the X1950Pro is a MUCH better deal. You can take a look here and see the comparison between them: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphi...=607&chart=211 That's the two cards, you can change the game/game settings at the top just below the card names. No matter what you run, you will see the ATI card outperforms the 7900GS.

No doubt about that. However, if you find a deal on the 7900GS like I did, its worth every penny. Best Buy had it for $150 after an instant rebate, but they aso had a 12% of coupon floating around online...I picked mine up for $132.

[freakitchen]

Heh, 'fraid there's a distinct lack of rebates here in England, Tin. I guess some people might argue that's a good thing in respect of M-I-Rs, but it does make true 'bargains' quite tough to find.

Some of the physical stores, like PC World, do very occasionally have bargains - but it's rare I can bring myself to go in one!

FK

[jfk]

Originally Posted by Tin No doubt about that. However, if you find a deal on the 7900GS like I did, its worth every penny. Best Buy had it for $150 after an instant rebate, but they aso had a 12% of coupon floating around online...I picked mine up for $132.

For $132, that is a GREAT deal, and I agree, I'd take it as well. The $70-100 savings is well worth the slightly lower performance.

[Stinger911]

Originally Posted by jfk For $132, that is a GREAT deal, and I agree, I'd take it as well. The $70-100 savings is well worth the slightly lower performance.

Also, you guys should check out anandtech. They did an article on the 7900 GS and pointed out that the BFG 7900 GS is factory overclocked and outperforms the other 7900 GS cards. That's the one I have. I run BF2 and BF2142 on all high settings, 2x AA, and 1280x1024 and it runs at about 65 FPS. Looks glorious.

Company of Heroes I can run all on high except trees and ground texture set to medium and get 45-60 FPS with AA.

I'm very happy with the card so far.

[freakitchen]

OK, here's a bit of an update in the spirit of completeness.

Went ahead and ordered the HIS x1950 Pro 256MB, and installed it in my system with the latest drivers and Catalyst Control Centre. Got a display no problem, so thought I'd test the thing out with a bit of Need for speed Carbon.

It lasted precisely two minutes before the game locks up, and I completely lose my display. ATI VPU recovery utility kicks in, and my display is restored. Replicated the problem every time I played the game - in fact, any time the card was under any sort of load (including ATI's own stress tester)

What was strange was that the GPU core wasn't going over 60 degrees. Obviously the problem lay elswhere, and, after trying different drivers and much googling, found that some people have been having problems with overheating VRMs on the cards. The cooler on the HIS does a great job of cooling the core, but not so much the RAM or the VRM, so it would seem.

Anyway, the card has been RMAd, and I've ordered the Power Colour version of the same card. It has the Arctic Cooling heatsink, and I'm told isn't affected by the same problems. We shall see.....

FK

[Tin]

What video card did you have before? Did you uninstall the drivers properly? I use a program called Driver Cleaner Pro to remove the leftovers from old drivers. I use it for video and sound cards quite a bit and havent had any trouble at all.

[freakitchen]

Tin, I also used Driver Cleaner Pro on the old nvidia drivers.

I've done plenty of research on the x1950 Pros since I had my problems - and it does seem like a known issue, not limited to just one brand. The Sapphire cards it would seem are most affected from looking in various forums (and, indeed, this one! http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=172457)

The one brand that doesn't seem to be affected is PowerColor - who use an Arctic Cooling heatsink. I ordered one of these and installed it this morning with no problems at all. The card idles at 37 degrees and maxes out at 54 under full load with no lockups.

Hopefully these problems will be rectified, because its a great value card at the moment. In the meantime, though, I'd hesitate to recommend anything other than the PowerColor.

FK

[jfk]

Glad to hear it worked out. My bro-in-law got the HIS since he was sure the PowerColor wouldn't fit due to the way the cooler stuck out. The PowerColor was my first suggestion to him, but he has a small mid-size case and it wouldn't fit. He has had no problems yet in any games, but we'll keep an eye on it. The games he's played include RVS, BF2142 and RS:Vegas. Again, no issues yet.