Creating DVD video Compliant discs ???

[webgecko]

Hello

Basically I am just talking about putting your own DVD videos together
onto discs and I have a few observations/questions.

I am using Nero 6 with a dl Pioneer dvr108 rw dvd drive. On the whole
burning etc works quite well with the rig I have.

I am interested in more of the low level detail which goes into the making of
a DVD video COMPLIANT dvd ( basically by compliant I mean a standard format
DVD which will play back on a PC or your standard domestic DVD player etc).

If you examine most DVDs in a PC dvd drive you will see two standard folders
, AUDIO_TS ( which you think contains the sound track but I'll be darned if
I can see anything there at all - maybe the sound track is built into the
VIDEO_TS file ?) and VIDEO_TS in that order (contains menu, video etc files
for the DVD with file extensions of .IFO , .VOB etc). A DVD on the PC kind of looks
like a big data disk (???) but there must be more to it.

For example I can use Nero 6 in DVD data compilation mode and put an empty
AUDIO_TS folder and a VIDEO_TS folder (in that order) with my DVD files
onto a disk (and burn) but only after Nero 6 tells me that by placing DVD content
onto the disc I will be creating a NON dvd video compliant disk.
Nero tells me to use the DVD video compilation mode if I want a compliant
DVD (But I'm darned if I can find that compilation mode in Nero).
Anyone know how to do this in Nero 6 without having to resort to recode ?

Funny thing is I decided to ignore Neros message about a non compliant disk
and burnt my AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders to disk anyway.
Then I put my newly burned DVD into my domestic player and Hey presto
the disc loads and registers as DVD-VIDEO on screen BUT then
doesn't play. I know I should have expected that
(dvd format must not be right somehow ?).

BUT if I now take my NON compliant DVD from the domestic player and
try it on my PC with say (Cyber link)
PowerDVD, hey presto my NON COMPLIANT DVD (that I just burned
without Neros recommendation) plays like a dream, soundtrack , video
and all !? BUT what's going on here ? Why should this work at all if
it's a non DVD video compliant disk ?

So I obviously did it the wrong way BUT I still worked out a way to use
ordinary data compilation mode to burn a DVD which at least works fully
on the PC !

Does anyone have a more low level handle on all this and maybe just what
makes a COMPLIANT DVD video DVD (one that plays on the pc and the
domestic player) ? Maybe it's in the format. I'd like to know more.

Any ideas welcome.

Thanks

webgecko

[freakitchen]

For a DVD to be a 'compliant' DVD for standard players, it needs to have the 'correct' combination of .VOB, .BUP and .TS files. In order to get these from standard .mpg video clips, you have to run them through a DVD authoring program. Once you have them, you can then use NERO to burn the DVD-compliant disk - i.e. it will not advise you that you're missing key files.

Nero Vision, if you have it, will do this authoring, but I personally use a freeware utility called 'GUI for dvdauthor' that will create the files you need from the source.

To answer your question about the VIDEO/AUDIO folders - yes, the audio track is built in to the .VOB files - which is why they all go in the video folder. I believe the Audio folder is purely for DVD-Audio discs. The reason that your PC will play a non-compliant DVD is because it's simply reading the .VOB files directly. A standalone DVD player cannot do this.

FK

[RJ]

If you examine most DVDs in a PC dvd drive you will see two standard folders , AUDIO_TS ( which you think contains the sound track but I'll be darned if I can see anything there at all - maybe the sound track is built into the VIDEO_TS file ?) and VIDEO_TS in that order (contains menu, video etc files for the DVD with file extensions of .IFO , .VOB etc). A DVD on the PC kind of looks like a big data disk (???) but there must be more to it.

The AUDIO_TS folder is used for DVD-Audio, the VIDEO_TS folder for DVD-Video. Thus, for DVD-Video, the AUDIO_TS folder is always empty, and the VIDEO_TS folder contains all the necessary files.
The audio is inside the VOB files (VOB = video object), together with video and subtitles.

A DVD-Video actually is a data disc. . .just one that has to follow certain rules.

Does anyone have a more low level handle on all this and maybe just what makes a COMPLIANT DVD video DVD (one that plays on the pc and the domestic player) ? Maybe it's in the format. I'd like to know more.

The file system must be UDF 1.02 (I know that early versions of Nero 6 used 1.5, that was a major bug. Because every Nero version has different issues, Nero is *not* recommended if you want your DVD to be really DVD video compliant. Better use ImgBurn for the burning part, it'll burn the files the correct way and does not recode anything).
You can combine it with ISO and/or Joliet (most commercial DVD-Video discs are ISO/UDF), but UDF 1.02 is a must.

VOB, IFO and BUP files have to be in the correct order. First IFO, then VOB, then BUP. Their sector addresses must match the corresponding addresses written in the IFO/BUP files.

Why should this work at all if it's a non DVD video compliant disk ?

Because PCs don't care. They are so complex they can handle everything. Even if you just burn a DV AVI file to DVD you can still play it back with PowerDVD. PowerDVD is called PowerDVD but not limited to playback of VideoDVDs.
But standalone dvd players are built to play back DVD-Video, to keep them simple and cheap. They do that all in hardware and can't be upgraded with new codecs etc. like it's possible with PCs. That's why PCs play everything. .if it doesn't you download a new codec or player software and then it'll work.

Then, there are rules for the video. It can only have the following resolutions (example for NTSC):

MPEG-1, 352x240, 29.97fps
MPEG-2, 352x480, 29.97fps
MPEG-2, 704x480, 29.97fps
MPEG-2, 720x480, 29.97fps

16:9 is only allowed with 704x480 and 720x480.

The sum of bitrates of all streams mustn't exceed 9800kbps

LPCM and AC3 are possible for sound.

On a dual layered DVD, the outer layer (L0) can't be larger than the inner layer (L1). The layer break can only be on a sector divisible by 16.

If you use good authoring and burning programs (the mentioned GUI for DVD author is a good one, and it's free, and ImgBurn is just excellent, Nero is no match for it) your DVDs will turn out fine

RJ

[webgecko]

Thank you RJ

That's a boatload of info.

One thing on the order of .IFO, .VOB and .BUP files.
How come a consumer DVD I have has the VIDEO_TS.BUP file first ?
Does TS mean Transcription System ?

Thanks again

webgecko

[webgecko]

Thanks also to Freakitchen

webgecko

[webgecko]

RJ

Thanks for the link to Imgburn. I have used it now to successfully produce a dvd video
compliant disc (no more coasters !). It seems to be a brilliant and awesome piece of software.
Whoever wrote that must be a bright cookie.

I tried to produce that dvd disc with the Nero software and used a number of approaches
and everything Nero did failed. Nero couldn't even work with it's own recoded files
BUT ImgBurn worked first time with files Nero coughed on over 6 times
(when I gave up on Nero with that one). But then for many other burning jobs the
Nero stuff works OK.

I highly recommend ImgBurn to any other pcmech users.
It is one amazing piece of work.

Thanks again.

webgecko

[RJ]

Hi,

How come a consumer DVD I have has the VIDEO_TS.BUP file first ?

They don't. You'll just see it listed first because Windows Explorer normally displays the files in the alphabetic order, not the order they are physically on the disc.
You can use programs like IsoBuster to see their actual position (with sector address etc.).

Does TS mean Transcription System ?

No. TS = Title Set.

VOB = Video Object
IFO = Information (about navigation structure etc.)
BUP = Backup (of IFO file)

Thanks for the link to Imgburn. I have used it now to successfully produce a dvd video compliant disc (no more coasters !). It seems to be a brilliant and awesome piece of software. Whoever wrote that must be a bright cookie.

Yeah, ImgBurn is a great piece of software The author is the one that once programmed DVD Decrypter. Back in the old days I used to burn my images with Decrypter because the burning engine was already good.
After development of Decrypter had to cease because of legal issues, LightningUK continued improving the burning part as ImgBurn.
And with the new features like Build and Read, ImgBurn can be used to burn DVD-Video files to DVD (it can create images by itself now) and even make 1:1 copies of DVDs (without copy protection).
And: It's completely free.

RJ