Dead video card? blank monitor

[tinner]

My daughter and I built this rig over two years ago. The video card is a Chaintech GeForce FX5900 XT. Yesterday the computer booted with a blank screen. The green power indicator on the monitor was green and flashing, indicating normal. When I unplugged the cable from the video card to the monitor, the "no signal" symbol came up on the screen. I plugged in another working monitor and had the same (non) results. I removed and reseated the video card, same result. I again removed and checked connections and for anything loose on the card itself, reseated, reboot and same result. While it was running, I looked to see that the fan was spinning on the card and it was, indicating that power was getting that far. So, short of trying a different video card, which I could do, but I would have to take the one out of this machine, have I narrowed the possibilities down to a dead card? Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Mark

[chuck4456]

That would be a good place to start. Let us know what happens.

[glc]

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=168456

[tinner]

ok...confusing result...removed the graphics card from this machine(Gainward GeForce4 Ti4200 AGP8X) and installed it in place of the other one. No difference. Same blank screen. So, in the interest of troubleshooting, I re-installed the Gainward video card in this machine AND the monitor from the down machine and...everything is good. Running as a "clone" desktop. SO not the monitor for sure AND apparently not the Chaintech FX 5900 video card, although I havent proven that by installing it in this machine. So while I do that and make sure that card (FX 5900) is good, what is next? Motherboard? and how do I trouble shoot that?

Again thanks for your help in advance.

[webgecko]

tinner

Looks like you are taking things step by step in the right direction at the moment.
The monitors should be OK from what you have done
(one thing that confuses me though about the first monitor with the flashing green
power light is that usually a flashing indicator like that can mean things are not OK
[but maybe that's just how that model does things]).

You do need to check the [possible] problem video card on your good machine
(which you are either doing now or have done) first.

If the video card checks out OK in your good machine then you may likely have
a problem with your mainboard on the other machine (or power supply etc).

One question though, you initially stated that your other machine "booted"
with a blank screen. How do you know the machine actually booted ?
Did you see any of your other system indicator lights flash as per normal
after you applied power (CDROM/DVD, HDD or FDD drive LEDs did any of these
come on after you applied power ?) ?

If you applied power and no system LEDs came on or flashed etc then
(not talking about the indicators on the monitor) your system mainboard may not have started/booted at all. This could imply a power supply problem
(even possibly a problem at the wall outlet although indicators on the monitor probably rule this out).

The fact there must have been some kind of signal coming from the video card
(going on what you said happened after you unplugged the video cord)
is a bit confusing but this doesn't prove the card was working
(or that the system had actually started/booted).

Fact is without any video it is very hard to know what is going on on the problem system.

Take note of the thread that GLC posted from HAL9000 above. It is a very good
systematic approach to assembling a bare bones system configuration from your
problem system parts. You build the system with the bare bones
(power supply, mainboard, CPU/heatsink , system DRAM and a video card and a keyboard
will be helpfull otherwise you will just get a BIOS error message re can't find keyboard etc)
because the less you have connected to your system initially the easier it is to single out the
problem component. Then you can add drives and cards one at a time until you have a problem and there may be your faulty component.

It also helps to have some spares at hand (like a known good power supply etc).

You could have a system power supply problem. Your system DRAM could be bad
which could stop it from booting (so you would need another known good stick of
DRAM to test this - only one stick at a time to see whether it will boot).
Your CPU could also be bad (expensive if you need a spare).
Your mainboard could also be bad.

If your power supply, system DRAM and CPU check out OK then it could be the
motherboard and confirming this is difficult because you would need known good
power supply, dram and CPU to check with the mobo
(and you take the risk that a bad mobo could damage good parts).
Only an OEM mobo manufacturer can really verify a mainboard and
there may be a lot in your way of getting this done
(the component dealer may also be able to help out).

If everything else checks out OK then it may be simpler and cheaper just to buy
another mainboard.

Can't think of anything else right now.

Hope you have some luck with it.
Let us know how it goes.

webgecko

l

[tinner]

Ok...the FX5900 from my daughters machine is running on my machine. That is somewhat disapointing because that would have been an easy fix AND I would have a good excuse for upgrading. But I guess I already knew that from the previous steps.

From WEBGECKO
One question though, you initially stated that your other machine "booted"
with a blank screen. How do you know the machine actually booted ?
Did you see any of your other system indicator lights flash as per normal
after you applied power (CDROM/DVD, HDD or FDD drive LEDs did any of these
come on after you applied power ?) ?

This is a good point and I apologize for using the wrong term. I gueass I meant "powered on". I couldn't possibly have known anything other than that the fans were spinning and the LED's were on on the fans(spinning) and the case.

I guess I am at the point of tearing it all down and following the suggestion of HAL9000 and the link that was sent(thanks by the way). As far as spares go, I do have another power supply (I am going to build myself an upgrade) that I could use for checking out the "down" machine. Other than that, I would have to rob from this machine. I guess the worst that happens is my daughters gets a bit of an upgrade herself.

I probably won't be able to get to this until Sunday (the 1st) so I will get back to you then.

Did I say thanks? Thanks again

[webgecko]

tinner

Looks like you have things under control
(one step at a time - slowly slowly catchee monkey).

As regards what you said above :

Quote from tinner

This is a good point and I apologize for using the wrong term. I gueass I meant "powered on". I couldn't possibly have known anything other than that the fans were spinning and the LED's were on on the fans(spinning) and the case.

End Quote

No need to apologize for using a wrong word/term. Everyone in this business is learning all the time (as everything keeps on changeing) and everyone makes the occasional mistake (I make plenty all the time - we like to avoid mistakes where we can but mistakes are one of the best ways to learn).

It is probably easy to confuse things after we power up a system especially where fans and other system indicators (like power etc) are working i.e. we think the system has booted but as in your case we don't have any video display.

HOWEVER

If you see The LED indicators on say your CDROM/CDRW drive, DVDR/RW drive, floppy drive or HDD LED indicator actually come on and especially if they flash this is usually a good indicator that the system has booted and the processor is running
(sometimes you can also hear the hard drive operating as software loads/runs etc).

Another example of a good indication that the system is running is something like
a webcam (or anything else which is connected to the system which is configured
by the operating system [loading of drivers etc] at windows startup).
A green light comes on on my webcam after windows starts to load
(my MS USB optical mouse is another example - RED LED comes on after
windows runs/drivers loaded).

You are on the right track.

Good luck with it all

webgecko

[tinner]

So... I hit the power on button and the webcam and the mouse had some indications of getting some type of signal. The webcam had the constant green "on". The wireless optical mouse flashed (red optical underneath), but I didnt pay enough attention before this happened to know if this is typical.

HOWEVER

The CDR/DVD drive light is dark and will not operate open/close. Same with the floppy light. The green power indicator light is NOT on on the front of the case, nor is the hard drive "activity" light (yellow) on at all. I also did not hear any of the typical hard drive start up noises. My daughter says that she never hears any, but again I didn't pay close enough attention when it was operating.

So... this is as far as I can go with this tonight, but it appears that I have narrowed the situation to the power supply, MOBO or hard drive.

I am leaning away from power supply and hoping that its not the hard drive. Tomorrow I tear it down and take the systematic approach.

Opinions anyone?

[glc]

How about giving us full specs - especially the brands and models of the mobo and power supply.

[tinner]

internals are as follows

MOBO - MISI K8T NEO-FSR VIA K8T800
CPU - AMD ATHLON 64 2800+
RAM - CRUCIAL/MICRON 256 PC3200 (2 EA.)
GRAPHICS CARD - CHAINTECH FX5900XT 128MB DDR
HDD - MAXTOR DIAMONDMAX PLUS 60GB ATA/133
POWER SUPPLY - TURBOLINK MODEL LC-A350ATX (CAME WITH THE ASPIRE CASE)

I can be more specific than this if you need.

[glc]

Replace that Turbolink PSU. It's made by L&C, one of the worst manufacturers out there, it's a cheaply made piece of junk. Whether it fixes it or not I don't know, but you are tempting fate by using it.

[tinner]

I have an Antec 550W Truepower 2.0 that I was going to put in my new machine. I will slip that in there and see what happens.

[tinner]

Ok. Good news...the Antec power supply is awesome. You were right GLC. Just the weight alone shames the Turbolink. Nice and comparitively quite also. Unfortunately no change in the situation. Same reaction. Power on. No monitor and no power indicator or HDD activity light. I systematically unplugged a connection from the old power supply and then plugged in the same from the Antec so I didn't miss anything. The Antec has a quite a few more options however.

I hope its not the HDD

Thanks for the tip though. I will never skimp on a power supply again.

[Panama Red]

Disconnect both ide cables from the mobo and see if it will boot to the bios. If it does, then your hdd, one of your ide cables or one of your cd/dvd drives is probably causing the lack of boot. You could always pull the hdd and put it in your pc for testing too.

[glc]

You need to be doing this with the motherboard out of the case in minimum configuration as indicated in the troubleshooting link.

[tinner]

I removed everything from the case and followed the troubleshooting link instructions. When I shorted across the power switch, the fan on the CPU spun, on the graphics card and the power supply. Other than the machine being disemboweled, it reacted the same as if it were in the case. Nothing on the monitor. Same as it ever was...

What next?

[glc]

Any beeps?

[tinner]

no beeps...however I don't think I had the internal speaker connected. I found the posts for "SPKRS" on the MOBO but they weren't connected to anything. I dont recall if they ever were. Heres a dumb question...where physically is the internal speaker? Part of the case?

Also, should I (we) think about moving this thread since it is somewhat out of place now that I am reasonably sure it is not the moniyor or video card?

[Panama Red]

The speaker posts would connect to a case mounted speaker if one comes in the case. If one is present, you should find a 3 or 4 wire connector that plugs into the front panel header on the mobo. Some mobo's come with a small speaker bulilt in on the mobo. Older pc's came with a small speaker about 2" in dia held in place in a bracket. Newer cases utilize a small speaker about the size of a nickel. I keep one of the old ones around just for testing.

We can move this any time. For now, we'd rather get your problem id'd.

[paradox]

Tinner

I was having the exact same troubles you are having with my current computer.

I took it out of my case and put the mobo on the mobo box and ontop of the box I put an anti static bag, then the motherboard. then I put everything together, and it worked just fine.

I put it back in the case and it would give me the same stuff.

Took it out and put it in a new case, and now it works just fine... So, check the RAM make sure your motherboard supports the RAM, try a different case?

Sorry if I intrude on something, I was just having the exact same problem with my computer

-edit-

Important, make sure that your motherboard is on the risers

[glc]

Please do NOT set the motherboard on an antistatic bag - you can short it out that way.

[tinner]

I took the RAM out of the down machine and installed it in this one. Everything seems good. SO I have reduced the problems to (correct me if I am wrong) CPU or mobo. So one could deduce that if i took the down rigs' CPU and installed it in this machine one of two things will happen.
1. This rig will have the same symtoms as the down one, therefore the CPU is bad.
2. This rig will run and therefore the mobo is bad.

Is this the troublshooting option I am left with? What are the risks? Is there a safer procedure?

Since I haven't tore down any machines, what is the proper way to remove the heatsink? Steady pressure? What should I use to clean off the residual thermal compound on the CPU and heatsink? Do I need to apply new thermal compound just to test on this machine or will it heat up and bake?

Sorry this is staking so long but I can only work on this a little bit each night.

Thanks for your suggestions

[tinner]

I removed the heat sink from my rig that was working with the intention of switching the CPU with the down rig before I realized that they are not interchangable (should have checked that first you say?). So I put the heatsink back on and hit the power button and I get a single "beep" and then a few seconds later I get a continuous two tone beep that kind of reminds me of a british siren (WEEE WOO WEE WOO as Spongebob would say). So now I have TWO machines that are not working. Any suggestions on that problem?

I took my daughters machine into the local computer shop on Saturday for a diagnosis and I should here something back today.

[Panama Red]

The siren sound indicates an overheating cpu. You probably didn't get the heat sink reinstalled correctly. And/or you didn't clean the mating surfaces of the cpu and hsf and apply new compound.

[tinner]

I thought that. Then I removed and reinstalled with the same results. Then repeated the process after cleaning and reapplying new compound. I did this several times, all with the same result. Blank monitor and then the "siren". The board on my machine is an EPOX 8RDA+ and the chip is an AMD Athlon 2400.

[Panama Red]

Did you remove the cpu from the motherboard during this process? If so, did you check the pins closely to make sure they are all straight? A bent or broken pin will do the same thing. You can use a credit card to slide down the rows of pins and carefully straighten any that are bent or misaligned.

[tinner]

I did remove the CPU. I will triple check the pins. I I will re-clean and re-install. What do YOU use to clean the chip and the heatsink before reapplying?

[Panama Red]

Alcohol on cotton balls or Q-tips. If there's a thick layer of compound, I first scrape away the bulk of it with a small plastic ruler. I use that same ruler (any small piece of plastic will work) to spread a very thin layer of Artic Silver 5 on the cpu core. This is for an exposed core AMD. For Intel, I follow the small drop "about the size of a grain of rice" method described in the AS5 application instructions. No spreading that one, just install the hsf and let it spread the AS5 on its own.

[tinner]

This is in regards to the initial computer problem...

The local computer store has determined that..
1) Good news...the CPU is apparrently ok.
2) The MSI Mother board is bad and needs to be replaced. The guys there did not have anything good to say about MSI and suggested that the next board be a different manufacturer. Does anyone here have any suggestions for a comparable replacement?
3) They also said that the power supply was bad. This I have an issue with because it was a brand new Antec still in the wrapper that I used to troubleshoot the existing one. The way they tested it was plugging in a plastic device with a few green lights and a single red light. Because the red light came on, that was how it was determined to be bad. It was also explained that the PS was either putting out to much or not enough power, but no way to know for sure which, or either. Is this a common problem? Does it seem likely that a power supply is bad out of the box?

Thanks for your help

[Panama Red]

Your choices are limited with 754 socket mobo's. Throw in an AGP video card and the selection grows smaller. NForce chipsets have proven to be a better choice than Via so this is the best I can find at Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138240

I'm not familiar with the device trhey used to test the psu but anything is possible. I'd prefer to test it with a multimeter and see what the measure voltages are.

edit: seems like a lot of negative reviews at Newegg for that mobo. Might have to rethink that one and search for another. I'll be back.

edit: Not good news. I've looked everywhere and that's the only nForce board I can find w/AGP.