Flat Panel Resolution

[FastEddieW]

Hi, guys...

I'm thinking about replacing the 19" Dell Trinitron monitor that I've been using for years, with a flat panel...maybe 20-22". I'm still on the fence whether to go with a widescreen or not. My understanding is that Windows should be run at native res, but that games and DVD will "adapt" correctly to the screen's native resolution. For example, a normal aspect ratio DVD or game would "letterbox" within the screen's display area, with blank space to the left and right, but no blurring or distortion. A widescreen DVD or game would utilize all the available space, left to right, by comparison.

I'm currently running an X800XT graphics card, and I found the following on tweakguides.com:

"Image Scaling: This section allows you to choose whether to have the images on the screen 'Scale to full panel size', or 'Use centered timings'. For most displays the 'Scale image to full panel size' is the best option, however the further away your current resolution is from your display's 'native' resolution, the blurrier the onscreen image will be. Note, you can use the free Microsoft ClearType utility to make text in non-native resolutions much clearer. If you want to force all resolutions to display at your monitor's native resolution - hence providing the sharpest image quality - select the 'Use Centered Timings' option, however note that any resolutions below your native resolution will appear as a centered box on the screen with black borders."

I assume that this effectively eliminates any concerns about blurring and/or distortion, due to mis-matched resolution...?

If anyone can confirm this and perhaps offer a specific brand/model/size recommendation, I'd appreciate it. I'm looking for something in the $200-250 range, and will consider rebated prices.

TiA..

~Eddie

[blue60007]

My laptop has a widescreen and I have no problem playing DVDs or games (even ones that won't run at a widescreen res). You would want to set the resolution within Windows to whatever the panel's native res is and you shouldn't have any blurry text or anything like.

[FastEddieW]

Thanks, blue...

My thinking at present is to spring for a 22" widescreen, since it is the same height as my 19" CRT, but substantially wider. I've gotten some feedback on another forum that deals with 6 bit vs 8 bit color, and the contention there is that *all* 22" widescreens are 6 bit. I'm not sure how big a deal that is in terms of practical day to day use. In addition, I'm still not fully assured that non-widescreen games and/or movies will not be "stretched" to fit the different aspect ratio. It is my understanding that the panel's "scaling" software will handle this, or perhaps the "scaling" function in the Catalyst driver, but no ironclad guarantees that I've seen.

I"m not UNhappy with my CRT, but the LCD panels I've seen in displays and on clients' desks have been very impressive and if they would handle the "entertainment" aspect of my home PC use, I'd like to give it a shot.

Eddie

[blue60007]

Games and movies will be stretched if they aren't widescreen. But, I can't reallly tell when they are stretched. 8bit would be the best but it's also hard to tell what's what. Generally though, you get what you pay for.

[Lespaul20]

Just remember for Color depth:
16.2 million = 6bit
16.7 million = 8bit

[freakitchen]

I just 'invested' in a 22" LCD. The key in making sure games display correctly, is to get them working in a Widescreen resolution - games have their own resolution controls. Most new games have native support for these, although some need some manual tweaking or forcing. The Widescreen Gaming Forums have a Wiki with lots of info

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...Games_List_-_A

In regard to video playback, these screens are 16:10 aspect. How the video behaves depends on the software you use for playback rather than the monitor itself. Most software will have settings to keep the aspect ratio of any video, so 16:9 video will play with small black bars at the top and bottom, and 4:3 video will have larger black bars to the left and right.

[blue60007]

Originally Posted by Lespaul20 Just remember for Color depth: 16.2 million = 6bit 16.7 million = 8bit

Sort of...the 6-bit panels use dithering to acheive more colors. Here's a better explanation:
http://compreviews.about.com/od/mult...a/LCDColor.htm

[Lespaul20]

How to Tell if an LCD is 8-Bit or 6-Bit This is the biggest problem for individuals who are looking at purchasing an LCD monitor. Most manufacturers do not list the color depth of their display. Even fewer will list the actual per-color depth. If the manufacturer lists the color as 16.7 million colors, it should be assumed that the display is 8-bit per-color. If the colors are listed as being 16.2 million or 16 million, consumers should assume that it uses a 6-bit per-color depth. If no color depths is listed, it should be assumed that monitors of 12ms or faster will be 6-bit and the 20ms and slower panels are 8-bit.

This is what I was talking about.

To the OP, the last section in the article blue linked to sums up the 8bit vs 6bit problem.

[FastEddieW]

Thanks for the 6 bit/8 bit info. I doubt that there's enough difference in the two to be of real concern to me. The scaling issue (if that is the right term) is the real point of concern at this point. I really do not feel comfortable with that issue, and am still seeking an understanding of how a 22" panel with 1680X1050 resolution would handle, for example, a normal aspect ratio (non-widescreen) game running at, say 1024X768. Would it stretch/interpolate the image to fit the full panel, edge to edge, or would it be a 1024X768 image, centered in the panel, with black "space" around the edge? Similarly, what about a non-widescreen DVD title (I have plenty of these, as well)? Would it center the image, or stretch it out to the panel edges, distorting the image? I don't have a clear understanding of this. I have seen some info that leads me to believe that the panel's software will automatically detect the source resolution and adjust accordingly w/o distortion. Is this true and, if so, are all panels equipped to do this, or are only certain brands/models capable of this?

Sorry to be so ill-informed on this. I appreciate all the assistance.

Eddie

[blue60007]

Yeah, it'll stretch to the size of the monitor. One game I play, BF2, can't go to widescreen resolutions. I play it on my widescreen monitor and it looks fine.

As for DVDs...I've played a few non-widescreen titles and it looks fine. I've also watched plenty of standard TV and DVDs on widescreen TVs before. I wouldn't say it looks bad or stretched. With a computer, you can always re-size the DVD software window so it is more "square."

I can't say I've seen a LCD monitor that doesn't fill it's whole screen no matter what the resolution.

[freakitchen]

You should aim, in any game you play, to select a widescreen resolution - preferably your monitor's native one. With a 22", that means 1680x1050, which is quite a high resolution. Should your video card not be able to handle that smoothly, you can reduce it to any other resolution that's still 16:10 aspect - 1440x900, 1280x800 - without the picture being unnaturally stretched.

As Blue notes, some games do not have these resolutions available as standard, but most can be easily inserted by editing a couple of lines in a text file - the Widescreen Gaming Forums have this detailed Wiki:

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...Games_List_-_A

(on a side note, Blue, here's the solution for BF2: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...pic.php?t=6240)

For video files, how the picture is displayed depends on the software, not the monitor. The majority will keep the aspect ratio of the original recording. Non-widescreen DVDs will play with black bars on the left and right, but widescreen DVDs will look SO much better on a widescreen display, with just the smallest of black bars at the top and bottom (16:9 source on a 16:10 screen).

[FastEddieW]

Thanks, Freakitchen...

I'm not a huge gamer anymore, but still enjoy the diversion from time to time. Most of my game titles are older ones like MOHAA, COD, IL-2/Forgotten Battles/Pacific Fighters, RTCW, and Brothers in Arms. Some of the newer ones have resolution settings that support widescreen, but many of the older ones do not, afaik. I was hoping that what I'd been told on another forum was factual: that the panel's software would run the 4:3 titles in letterbox fashion, using the source resolution, mapped to the appropriate pixels, leaving blank black space around the perimeter, as necessary. From what you say, this is NOT the case, but that by fiddling with the game's resolution parameters it can be overcome. I may give that a shot. At present, I do a lot more DVD watching than gaming, so maybe it's not a huge deal, after all.

Do you, by the way, have a specific brand/model recommendation, in a 22" widescreen in the +/- $250 range?

Among the models that have caught my eye are the following:

Sceptre X22WG

Samsung 225BW

Hanns-G HW223DPB

Acer AL2216Wbd

Thanks again, all, for your input. Greatly appreciated.

Eddie

[freakitchen]

My personal recommendation would be the Samsung 226BW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...msung%2b226bw), but it only approaches your budget when you factor in the Mail in Rebate.

From your picks, I'd probably go for the Hanns-G - I'd rather have a Samsung, but the specs of the Hanns-G are more impressive than those of the 225BW.

[FastEddieW]

Originally Posted by Freakitchen My personal recommendation would be the Samsung 226BW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...msung%2b226bw), but it only approaches your budget when you factor in the Mail in Rebate. From your picks, I'd probably go for the Hanns-G - I'd rather have a Samsung, but the specs of the Hanns-G are more impressive than those of the 225BW.

I'll consider the 226BW. It is a little more of a stretch, but factoring in the rebate, the price difference between it and the Hanns is not that great.

The only differences I see between the 225BW and 226BW are that the 226 has a 2ms response time and has a swivel base; the 225 has a 5ms response time and has height adjustment. Are their other differences that I'm missing? Is the 2ms vs 5ms difference truly significant?

Eddie

[Lespaul20]

I've had a bad experience with Sceptre. I trust Samsung the most out of those brands.

[glc]

If the price is right, the Acer is also a good bet.

[Ahura]

SInce this is somewhat related, I ask a question. Does LCD that is Vista certified that much different from one that is not?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824155053
Almost identical to the Hanns G, except w/ AVI HDCP capability and like 20 dollars less. One concern though, there is a similar LCD and people complaint about how crappy the stand is.

[glc]

Lousy stands are quite common from what I've seen.

[Mike Hawthorne]

Hi

I love my Dell 24" wide screen monitor high refresh no blurring razor crisp image.
Games and video are no problem.

Any new game will accommodate wide screen, probably both 1600 by 900 and 1920 by 1200, which is what I use.

Video always seems to play in the correct aspect, wide screen or standard depending on the original.

I could never go back to an old style monitor again.
Next time I'm going up to 30"

Mike

[IonicBond]

I see no advantage is going 22" WS over a 20" WS since the resolution would be the same for both (1680x1050) but the pixel pitch would be worse for the 22" resulting in reduced sharpness.

Also, AFAIK, most (all?) of the 22" widescreens on the market are TN panels...good for gaming but useless for everything else involving decent color reproduction/ viewing angles.

From the 20" WS category, the NEC 20WMGX2 is highly regarded because it is an AS-IPS panel.

[Lespaul20]

Originally Posted by IonicBond I see no advantage is going 22" WS over a 20" WS since the resolution would be the same for both (1680x1050) but the pixel pitch would be worse for the 22" resulting in reduced sharpness. Also, AFAIK, most (all?) of the 22" widescreens on the market are TN panels...good for gaming but useless for everything else involving decent color reproduction/ viewing angles. From the 20" WS category, the NEC 20WMGX2 is highly regarded because it is an AS-IPS panel.

The advantage would be to have the screen look a little larger. Therefore easier on people who can't see as well.

The Dell Ultrasharps uses the IPS or the PVA panel and are true 8Bit monitors.

Either way, any monitor like those will be out of the OPs price range.

[dbzakj]

I have an Acer 22", very good.

[FastEddieW]

Came across a deal on an Acer 22" today. It has Analog and DVD-D input, but my X800XT's digital is DVD-I. I read an online review stating that DVI-D input is not compatible with DVI-I output from the graphic card, and that he had to use the analog as a result.

I also read something that suggests that using digital signal rather than analog would result in the image being "mapped" to specific pixels on the screen. If that is the case, would it not effectively eliminate any problems with distortion? I'm thinking primarily of gaming and using a resolution that is lower than the native. If the panel's native were 1680 X 1050 (22" WS), would a game running at, say 1024 X 768 simply utilize those pixels needed for that resolution, leaving a black border around the edges of the screen?

TIA...

Eddie

[Lespaul20]

Don't worry about the different DVI connections. The DVI-I allows for a analog connection via the DVI port so if you do DVI to DVI you will be fine.

Don't worry about distortion, the A/D conversion your monitor will do will probably not be noticed. But if you are running DVI to DVI this wont apply. Just make sure you are running the native resolution. For anything thats not Native it will look less sharp and will be stretched if not running widescreen.