Cannot e-mail

[audiyoda]

I've got a HUGE problem that I need to fix ASAP. All of a sudden, I cannot e-mail anyone. This occurs with Netscape 4.75, Netscape 6.01, and Eudura Pro. This is the message I get: An error occured while sending mail. The mail server responded: 5.7.1 < anyone@domian.com >...Relaying denied. Please check the message recipients and try again. This is also happening with my wife. We are on a home network using a Linksys 8 port router connected to a dsl modem/router with MSN dsl service. The settings in the Linksys router have not been changed since I initially set it up. Same goes for the dsl modem. Since this has happened, I have installed Pop-up killer on my system only, but have since removed it to see if that helped, it did not. Nothing else has been installed to either computer.

The e-mail account this is happening on is our school accounts at Michigan State. If we dial in to the MSU server, we have no problems. But if we use our dsl connection, the above happens.

Another 'twist' to this is if we send e-mail to someone else at the MSU domain it will go through with no problems over the dsl connection. Also, we have no problems recieving e-mail, only sending.

Of course the 'techs' at MSU are no help. They wanted to know why I would try to connect to MichNET (the MSU dial up provider) with a dsl modem.

HELP!!!!!

-Craig

[Edited by audiyoda on 03-07-2001 at 12:15 AM]

[Xayd]

In all likelihood the server restricts mail going out from any IP addresses outside of their pool, which explains why you can only receive and not send when connected to someone else. Why? To eliminate or severely reduce spam.

You could permanently use your state address MAYBE by doing the following...

Set your incoming server to the state server, set the outgoing server to the MSN smtp server. Change your reply to address to your state address(s), and they'll by default reply to the state server, even though you're sending through the MSN server.

This is all assuming that MSN doesn't mind you sending out emails with "false" return addresses. Considering the security level of most Micro$oft products I tend to think that they won't mind one bit .

Xayd

[audiyoda]

At first, that's what I thought -- but I've accessed MSU's e-mail many times without dialing into the MSU servers. I just tried something that really peaked my interest in this: I e-mailed my wife as a test. But I did not include a domain, I just e-mailed carlenro rather than carlenro@msu.edu. I thought, maybe Netscape will put a default msu.edu at the end of her username. When it went through (on the dsl connection) I checked her e-mail on her computer. There is was with pilot.msu.edu as the domain. Pilot.msu.edu is the default domain for on-campus intranet mail. There is no probelm sending something to pilot.msu.edu, but internet-based e-mail defaults to msu.edu.

So I can't figure this out-- I can e-mail people (and I have) that are in the msu domain from our dsl connection. But I can't e-mail outside the domian, almost like I'm on the inside looking out. And it happened out of the blue. Sunday I was e-mailing people left and right. Monday, I couldn't but my wife could. Today, neither of us can.

-Craig

[glc]

Yeah - MSN has put in a port 25 relaying block. You will have to change your outgoing server to the MSN server to be able to send your mail. I have the same issue here - my domain host has a pop and smtp server I can use, but my dialup ISP has a block so I *have* to use the ISP's smtp server. I can get incoming mail from all my accounts (my ISP, my domain, and Netzero), but I must send using only the ISP's server. I have found this very easy to manage using Pegasus Mail with its "Identities" feature. Outlook and Outlook Express makes this a lot harder to deal with.

[audiyoda]

Actually, I finally spoke with someone at MSU who knows a thing or six about the Pilot mail server. (He installed the original 10 years ago and is still 'just a tech' -- this guys was amazing to talk to -- a whole nother post.) Ends up that the SMTP server is down for external relays. Hence the "Relaying denied" part of the error message. But he was baffled as to why I (on an outside connection) could send e-mail to a user name only without the domain. That should even be able to happed using the Dialup -- it should only happen on the Intranet only.

The only port MSU blocks is mIRC due to bandwidth issues and that's only on the Intranet connections that students in dorms have. There are so many profs and students that choose not to use the MSU dial up that they'd cut their own throat if they (MSU) blocked POP3 and SMTP access from outside ISP's.

-Craig

[glc]

Craig - I'm referring to MSN having the block - if they block port 25, you cannot access any smtp servers except their own. MSN is your DSL provider, right?

[audiyoda]

I've had MSN dsl for two weeks now. And until yesturday morning, had no problem accessing the MSU/PILOT SMTP server. I would find it interesting that MSN would block port 25 -- their SMTP and POP3 servers are actually hotmail servers. I can access Netscape SMTP and IMAP servers with no problem. And...there is nothing in their user documentation saying anything about not being able to use other mail servers. At least none that I can find.

So here's what I'm geting from all of this:

1) I've had no problems for the past few weeks accessing MSU/PILOT SMTP servers as well as Netscape SMTP/IMAP servers. All while using MSN dsl service.
2) MSU gets half their system bombed by a digruntled student. Causes web servers to go down for 6 hours on 3/6-3/7 and SMTP servers to go down to present.
3) The reason I cannot access MSU's servers is because MSN, without documentation that I can find, has been blocking port 25 since I signed up for their service.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you glc, but I'm not seeing it. Maybe MSN is blocking port 25 and somehow I've been able to circumvent their block. If they are blocking port 25, why can I e-mail within the MSU domain? I can e-mail my profs just fine. I can e-mail my wife, my friends, and my office mate. All using my MSU account.

If MSN is blocking port 25, I'd like to see the documentation and compare that with the contract I signed.

-Craig

[Xayd]

Ok, from the last post, here's a scenario that looks promising...

You got a relaying error, which is telling you that you can't send through that SMTP server from an outside domain, or send through it with an SMTP protocol at all in the case of crap such as M$ Exchange servers.

A student took down the university mail server, which results in them having to possibly reinstall software and reconfigure the servers themselves. The default setting when you install any mail server is to prohibit relay messages from outside domains, so unless they configured it properly when they set it back up, it's probably restricting everyone by default.

Them being content in their university jobs, no one has noticed or better yet everyone complains but no one cares in the case of the university that I went to.

If you could do something before with the same setup that you have now, tell them to get off their butts and remove the damn mail server relay block, in so many words. If you know the version number of the mail server software that they use, perhaps you could be REALLY rude and find the documentation on it and email them what they need to do exactly, along with your phone number to call if they can't figure it out .

Xayd

[audiyoda]

The PILOT server software is fairly unique -- I believe only a few Universities use it (MSU, LSU and a few others). It's based on old IBM hardware that can't be replaced. This past summer, equipment was replaced and damn it was a nightmare around here. I don't think there has been a software update in many years.

One thing I know, it's not MSU blocking access (purposely). They even suggest how users out-of-state can access PILOT for free: http://www.msu.edu/user/cic/dialup/freeISP.html Considering how many alumni we have (they get PILOT access for free for five years after graduation), this is a given.

I've been all over the MSN user agreement and can't find anything regarding SMTP blocks or using MSN outbound e-mail exclusively. Although I wouldn't put it past them.

And as far as I know, the server software is still not fully in place.

-Craig

[Xayd]

It's gotta be a problem at the university's server if it worked before and doesn't now.

I have the same situation here with our company's riciculous M$ Exchange server. I can use Outlook all day, but Outlook is far too bloated for me, so I use Netscape's mail program. Only problem is Exchange doesn't use SMTP for outgoing mail, so I can send all day to other users within the company, but when I try to send out, I get the "relaying prohibited" message, because they have SMTP blocked.

Xayd