linux on some OLD hardware

[darkside]

can anyone suggest a linux distro that would run on some really old hardware, HD is just over 1gb i think and ram is about 80 accordin to 'My computer'>Properties

i just need something that can play mp3's over the network, has firefox with it and aslo is generally user friendly to install and use also is needs to recognise a wireless pci card

thanks for any suggestions im willing to give anything a go, im looking for a bigger hard drive atm so if anyone wants to suggest something just let me know

ps. processor is an old pentium, not sure of clock speed but its not fast :/

[ffreeloader]

How proprietary is the hardware? I've installed Debain on some Dell boxes that were 7 or 8 years old and haven't had too many problems with hardware except of things like winmodems. There is a database around somewhere on the internet that lists those that Linux developers have gotten enough support from the manufacturers to write drivers for, but support is pretty limited for them. Video cards are sometimes difficult to trace as to what engine they are running too, but usually if you can figure out which engine they have you can find a driver for them.

Your main problem is hard drive size. Damn Small Linux would probably install but I am not familiar with it so I don't really know what their hardware support is like. You could also install Debian by manually choosing what programs you wanted to install using dselect, but it takes some time to figure that out, especially for someone new to Debian. However, you could keep Debian pared down small enough that way to easily fit on that small of a hard drive.

Also, if you used lvm to mount your hard drive partitions you'd be able to add another hard drive and move and/or resize partitions to the second hard drive so that the limit of 1 gig on the first drive wouldn't be all that big of a deal in the long run. This once again would probably be a challenge to do for a first timer to Linux and Debian but you would sure get an education figuring it out. It's an enjoyable challenge to tell the truth. Just do some research and reading before you start and you should be able to figure it out if you have some decent Windows skills.

[darkside]

ok ill have a look into debian, do you know any links that can give me some tips/advicde on installing it with only the prgrams i want?

im not sure what its like hardware wise, seems fairly standard, not so sure about RAM though, i havent got a clue what it is

Cheers for the reply
Nathan

[ffreeloader]

Here is a beginners tutorial on dselect.

Here is a link to what Debian refers to as the netinst cd. Look for the link for the "stable" netinst cd. It's about a 110 mB download. It installs the base system. Once that is installed choose to manually select what you want to install. All this software will be downloaded off Debian mirrors on the internet. Be forewarned though, this is something that will take a while. Debian gives you a little over 15,000 software packages to choose from in Sarge.

You'll need the Xserver package and a window manager such as xfce, enlightment, etc... as they are the "lighter" ones. There are quite a few to choose from so you'll probably want to research your choices when you see what they are so you can make an intelligent decision. KDE and Gnome include a lot of software and thus are pretty large packages, but you might be able to fit Gnome on that hard drive. Then you can choose what individual software packages you want such as video players, music players, etc.... dselect is pretty well organized, it's just so vast that it takes a long time to find what you want.

If you choose to try Gnome you probably won't need more software and you can even uninstall individual packages out of it that you don't use to give yourself more disk space.

If you choose not to install Gnome make sure to install the debian-reference and debian-reference-common packages. They will be extremely helpful in learning your way around Debian.

[darkside]

thanks for the info, ill grab some cd-r and try my best to get it sorted

ill come back here if i need any advice

Nathan

EDIT: 5mins later.............debian does have a GUI yeah? even if its only simple

[ffreeloader]

EDIT: 5mins later.............debian does have a GUI yeah? even if its only simple

Yeah. Debian has about a dozen or so gui's available. That's what Gnome, KDE, xfce, enlightment, etc... all are. Gnome and KDE just come with huge software packages, and the default Desktop install installs both KDE and Gnome which together take up a lot of hard disk space. That's why I referenced the "lighter" window mangers, i.e. gui's. The Xserver I referenced is the engine that supports the OS's ability to run a gui.

[darkside]

ok im goin to try and do an install from floppies (of debian) as i havent got any cd-r atm and the drive in the comp upstairs is ooolllddd

so before i even download anything, i have a question... what architecture type do i have? Intel x86 strikes me as the right answer but im not sure what so ever

[ffreeloader]

You're correct on the architecture.

[eltoroh]

wait how do you know if it's x86?

all i know is my set up goes like this

amd K-6 333mghz CPU
about 512K ram(not to sure on this)
6gig and 4 gig drives

not to sure of the video card but i can check it later...

i just want it to run a linux distro so i can learn it and get on the net with it.
nothing special....i wanted to put mandrake on it..but i don't think it'll work.
so help me out with something not to hard to must with and i'll move on from there when i build a new pc(i got fedora on a DVD already)

[ffreeloader]

wait how do you know if it's x86? all i know is my set up goes like this amd K-6 333mghz CPU about 512K ram(not to sure on this) 6gig and 4 gig drives

Because all the intel and AMD processors since the Intel 386's, except for maybe some of Intel's servers, up to the true 64 bit processors that have just come out are built on the x86 architecture. Do a little a little research. That's what Google is for.

[darkside]

i installed debian was quite easy once i got it going (floppy discs was messing me about til i found a new one in the bottom of the drawer)

one question, how do i shut it down lol?

infact while im here.....lets get me sorted with a gui, i just want something so i dont have to type everything all the time, do they all come with 'packages'? if so can i remove the unwanted ones at a later date?

[darkside]

is the xserver package called xserver-comm, xserver-xfre or something else like 'xserver' on its own? i managed to scroll all the way down that list to the x11 bit and they are the two options there

it takes ages to scroll thought that list when you dont know what to look for lol :/

[darkside]

ok, i went ahead and installed xserver-comm and now im at a loss for what to do....

i think i need a gui now so whats the section called where the gui's are? ill read through the descriptions of each and decide for my self but i dont know where they are in the dselect menu :/

cheers
nathan

[ffreeloader]

I'm unsure from your post if you have all the packages for Xserver installed. You need both xserver-xfree86 and xfree86-common.

In dselect you just have to keep looking. I can't remember where exactly things are found in dselect. Sorry. When I use it it's not something I try to memorize.

Here's how I would research the gui's if I were you. Do a Google search for just the name of the gui. Here's a listing of some of them that are available in Debian: fvwm, fvwm2, icewm, afterstep, olvwm, wmaker, mwm, twm, enlightenment, Icewin, Blackbox, Fluxbox, Gnome, and KDE

The other way to install the gui you want is just to "su" to root and use apt-get to install it. To "su" to root just enter su at the console prompt and then enter root's password when asked for it. Then just enter apt-get install gui_of_your_choice. If you were to install fvwm it would be apt-get install fvwm and the entire fvwm package would be installed.

You'll most likely want a login manager so I'd install something like gdm too. That way you can install a couple of different gui's and have a place to choose between them when you log in.

[darkside]

i used the apt get thing to d/l gdm and then i downloaded and installed icewm, now when i boot up it takes AGES and the screen is black for a while (i know its old but it does take longer than it should imo) then i get a message that xserver could not be started because the xserver-xfree86 bit isnt properly configured, i went into the configure unconfigured packages in dselect and theres nothing unconfigured :/ know whats up?

also, how do i shut it down properly lol atm im typing 'shutdown now' and it seems to unload everything then i just turn it off with the button, i dunno if this is the right thing to do or not :/

Nathan

[ffreeloader]

Originally Posted by darkside i used the apt get thing to d/l gdm and then i downloaded and installed icewm, now when i boot up it takes AGES and the screen is black for a while (i know its old but it does take longer than it should imo) then i get a message that xserver could not be started because the xserver-xfree86 bit isnt properly configured, i went into the configure unconfigured packages in dselect and theres nothing unconfigured :/ know whats up? also, how do i shut it down properly lol atm im typing 'shutdown now' and it seems to unload everything then i just turn it off with the button, i dunno if this is the right thing to do or not :/ Nathan

Did you install both of the xserver packages I listed? If not install them both. Then, once they are installed, or if you have already installed them run, as root, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86. That will run you through the configuration wizard for the xserver.

You can find out if you installed them both by running the following command from the bash shell: dpkg -l | grep xserver If you have installed them both it will print them out for you. If you have installed only one it will print only the one you have installed.

[darkside]

ok i did dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 and its asking me some questions about hardware now that it never asked me before, the problem is i have NO idea what hardware is in it so my question is.....how can i find out? is there a package to download that can give me the general information? or will it hightlihgt the correct ones for me? it asked me for my vid card and it already highlighted ATI out of the list so i clicked next or whatever and its saying type in a name for it but theres alreay a name there.

Ill carry on configuring it til it stops filling in the answers for me

Nathan

EDIT: its now asking me for the video cards bus identifier, i havent got a clue :/
its built into the mobo

[ffreeloader]

Just answer the major questions such as video card and driver. The rest it usually figures out on it's own. It's just that dpkg-reconfigure xserver makes it possible for you to specify everything related to xserver, which includes any hardware related to the gui. I've never had to specify anything other than video card and driver.

[ffreeloader]

To find the pci hardware, which includes agp video cards, you run lspci -v. That will list out pretty much all the hardware that has anything to do with the dpkg-reconfigure xserver wizard. I should have told you that before but I just plain old forgot how much it asks for as it's been quite a while since I've had to run it.

[darkside]

lspci -v lists the video device but it doesnt give me the bus ID 9I dont think

heres what it says....

0000:00:04.0 VGA Compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 264VT [Mach64 VT] (rev 08) (prog-if 00 [VGA])
Flags: VGA palette snoop, stepping, medium devsel, IRQ 9
Memory at 07000000 (32-bit, non-prefectable) [size=16M]
I/O Ports at 7400 [size=256]
Expansion ROM at 06300000 [disabled] [size=64k]

there minght be some more stuff above the bits i can see but i dont know how/if you can scroll upwards
im fairly sure the BUS ID is the only thing stopping me atm :/

your assistance is much appreciated
Nathan


EDIT*************************************************
OK, ignore that, i found out the BUS ID with some messing and i reconfigured xserver again.....still wont work, i have NO idea what i did wrong/whats up with it :/

[ffreeloader]

Whenever the xserver fails to start it takes you to 2 error screens. Have you read through those? They will usually tell you what the problem is. What did you choose as your video driver?

[darkside]

WOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!! it works (ish)

ok i looked at the errors adn realised that there was a scroll bar thing (never noticed it b4 (duh!) it said there was a problem with the mouse device ! so ive change it and now its booted into what appears to be a GUI but the screen is unuseable

i think it says debain at the bottom (i could be wrong) at it looks like there is some sort of menu at the top but the whole thing is unuseable, i think ive got the graphics card setup wrong (maybe to much color or something i dunno)

how can i go back to te commandline from here?

[ffreeloader]

darkside,

Sorry, I've been gone for a few days. I'm here for a couple of minutes today though.

Did you happen to get this worked out? If not let me know and I'll be back later on today or tomorrow morning, early Pacfic time.

It sounds as if you have the wrong driver or set the resolution and color depth too high for the card you have. lsmod | more from a console will tell you what modules you have loaded. You need to have the ATI module loaded. There's an atimisc module too but it's not the right one. You can load the module by installing a package called modconf. Then just run it as root by entering the command, you guessed it, modconf.

The easiest way for you to get to a command prompt when the gui is messed up like it is with you now is just hit ctrl-alt-f1 to f6. They will take you to a console login. You can reboot from there or work from there. To reboot just enter "shutdown -r now" and the system will reboot.

You can run the dpkg-reconfigure xserver from a console, but then you'd need to restart the xserver before you went back to the gui you had open. To do that you'd just have to hit ctrl-alt-f7.