AMD Semprons for Ubuntu Build

[Stretchman]

I'm putting together a list of CPU's that i'd like to use for my budget 'buntu-box.

What do you think of the AMD Sempron Series? In particular, i'm looking at the Sempron 2800, 3000 and 3400. The 2800 and 3000 have a small difference in price (30-40$), but @70 dollars the 3400 is about 40 extra. Would it be worth it to splurge for the 3400?

The 2800 is really at a sweet price point, but is 1.6ghz - is this a little bit too behind the times, or will it (as I suspect) agree with linux just fine? This machine will most likely be used for basic office tasks.

All three processors seem to have gotten good reviews on Newegg, but i'd appreciate any user experiences and input. Thanks.

Sempron 2800:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104245

Sempron 3000:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104241

Sempron 3400:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819104231

[glc]

The operating system has nothing to do with what processor you choose. For a basic office computer, you can use whatever processor you want with whatever operating system you want and it should run fine. I build basic office machines with Celerons, so Semprons should be fine. I still have customers using Pentium 3's in their offices.

[freakitchen]

I'd personally go for the 3000+ Ubuntu isn't a heavyweight operating system, but it's not a total 'lightweight' either. How much RAM you install will make the biggest difference - I'd recommend 512MB or more.

FK

[faulkner132]

A Ubuntu machine should have the same hardware considerations as an XP machine... with the exception of trimming back on the graphics card, as Ubuntu isn't a gaming system.

You can definitely get away with only 512 MB of memory in Ubuntu because there is no need to have anti-virus or anti-spyware programs running in Ubuntu. Of course if your budget allows for a Gig, it wouldn't hurt.

[Stretchman]

Thanks guys. It's good to know that each one of these processors would make good candidates for my build. As FK mentioned, perhaps it might be prudent to strike a middle ground with the Sempron 3000, although i've read in a few places that the 2800's seem to be doing fine as well.

A Ubuntu machine should have the same hardware considerations as an XP machine.

Actually that brings up a good question: What is a good, functional minimal spec for Win XP these days? All of my former XP machines were built for heavy duty gaming/video work in mind, so I never bothered to configure a basic machine.

Could I get your opinions on a few other crucial components as well? Particularly the Mobo and Video Card. I was planning on putting these inside either an Antec p150 or it's twin, the Solo. My first choices for mobo's therefore were for micro-atx boards (even though I know standard atx will fit inside them). Any prior experiences with micro-atx boards would be appreciated too.

What do you think of these?

ASUS A8V-VM - ~$40. At least one Newegg user has reported running Ubuntu 6.10 on it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131069

ASUS M2NPV-VM - ~$80. Twice the price of the Asus A8V-VM, but has onboard DVI.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131014

GIGABYTE GA-K8N51 - ~$50. I've never used Gigabyte boards before. This one seems solid, however.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128031

[freakitchen]

I treat 512MB of RAM as a minimum for XP these days - 1GB preferred. The other components, like the processor, depend more on the tasks you want the system to perform. The semprons are fine for an office type system.

For your motherboard - be careful with your socket. The three different boards you picked use three different processor sockets. The processors you linked to are all skt754 - which is now an older platform, but very stable. Unfortunately, good motherboards are difficult to find - the best I can do is this Biostar (it has on-board video which I imagine you'll be wanting for this kind of system)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138053

You *could* go with a newer socket - AM2 - which will open up higher quality ASUS motherboards. But the AM2 semprons are more expensive than the 754 equivalents.

FK

Edit: Changed my mind on the motherboard. The one I linked to previously has only one IDE channel - no good if you have IDE opticals and hard drives. This one has two.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138268

[Stretchman]

For your motherboard - be careful with your socket. The three different boards you picked use three different processor sockets. The processors you linked to are all skt754 - which is now an older platform, but very stable.

I appreciate the heads up, FK. For the Biostar motherboard you linked, do you think the issue reported by the reviewer about the system hanging with a removable USB device left inserted was just a singular quirk, or perhaps a common flaw across the entire product line? I ask b/c I have absolutely no experience with Biostar. Other than that the board looks good. The only other thing I could think of would be onboard DVI (which would be nice).

You *could* go with a newer socket - AM2 - which will open up higher quality ASUS motherboards. But the AM2 semprons are more expensive than the 754 equivalents.

Going with the slightly more expensive AM2 Semprons might be a good idea - the bulk of my experience with motherboards lies with Asus, so it would be nice to be back in familiar territory, especially considering this will be my first non-windows build. If I do, that would make the following mobo's available, right?

Asus M2N-MX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131040

Asus M2V-MX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131143

Neither appear to have onboard DVI, but that would be okay if i'm able to find a nice, quiet, low priced Nvidia card to pair with the board.

[freakitchen]

If you decide to do that, get the M2N-MX - it has an Nvidia chipset which is superior to the VIA chipset on the M2V-MX. No boards available with on-board DVI unfortunately, but yes, you can add a dedicated video card.

I know you haven't asked for help with the other parts for this system, but remember that an AM2 build requires DDR2 as opposed to DDR for socket 754. You'll also need a quality ATX 2 Power Supply - as these boards are based around PCI-Express video.

FK

[faulkner132]

Don't discount Biostar, they are very solid boards.

I use one in my main machine which runs Ubuntu (Socket A, nVidea chipset, GE 440 MX graphics) very well.

[glc]

Is an Intel based board with a Celeron-D out of the question? Here's a combo with an Asus motherboard right around $100:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131029
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819112205

[Stretchman]

I know you haven't asked for help with the other parts for this system, but remember that an AM2 build requires DDR2 as opposed to DDR for socket 754. You'll also need a quality ATX 2 Power Supply - as these boards are based around PCI-Express video.

Actually I'm glad you brought those point up. I'll keep them in mind as I search for memory and the PSU. I know that the p150 comes with the Antec NeoPower 430w. I used this PSU in a gaming build a year back and it has performed very well (only had to use chopsticks on it once). Howevever, i'm starting to lean a little more towards the Antec Solo case, which, AFAIK, does not ship with a PSU. In addition, I think Antec has stopped manufacturing the Neopower 430w.

Any recommendations you have on that front would be appreciated.

After deciding on the CPU and Motherboard, I was going to ask for help with my video card. I tend to go with EVGA, but I think anything quiet, stable and inexpensive will do. My only concern here is if I later decide to add something like Beryl to my linux box. In that case (and assuming that Beryl is mostly GPU/Memory dependent) i'd like my card to be able to handle the graphics. Perhaps something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130188

Beryl Link:
http://www.beryl-project.org/

Don't discount Biostar, they are very solid boards.

I'm pretty open to trying new brands. Even with Asus i've had to send back a fair share of boards to Newegg. Comet to think of it, i've never actually come across a "sealed" motherboard box, ever. Not even at my local Micro Center or Fry's.

Is an Intel based board with a Celeron-D out of the question? Here's a combo with an Asus motherboard right around $100: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131029 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819112205

That's a nice combo you found. Practical and very cost effective. It makes me wish I held onto my trusly old HIS Radeon 9800 Pro Exacalibur ICE-Q AGP card. Scrolling through the reviews of the ASUS P5PE-VM, a few people have mentioned Linux compatability as well. One other user mentioned no firewire? That's a bit of a drawback, as I imagine sometime in the future i'll want to connect a firewire peripheral. One questions about that - Some cases have fire wire ports on the front, but without support from the mobo, will they will unusable?

Also, about the Intel Celeron D 336 Prescott 2.8GHz. Do Prescotts run hot and loud? I seem to remember some talk a while back pertaining to this, as compared to Northwood Pentiums.

[freakitchen]

This is my preferred case for budget systems at the moment - the PSU is a good one that will power a low-mid range dedicated video card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129012

I've played around a little with Beryl - it's very nice. It does need a pretty decent video card to run it smoothly though - I'd recommend an eVGA Nvidia 7600GS. You might be able to get away with something less powerful, maybe even a 7300GT if that's a bit more than you wanted to spend. It's what I'd have recommended if you hadn't mentioned beryl.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130075

Unless a motherboard specifically states that it has on-board Firewire, then it won't have it. PCI add-on cards aren't expensive, though. Front firewire ports on cases require dedicated motherboard 'headers'.

FK

[bd1886]

I know it's kinda late in the thread to still be talking Sempron but...that whole processor line gets nothing but respect from me. Have had a 2800/64 in a box running 24/7 for almost 2 years now and that computer is the heaviest used box in the house. AMD is well engineered from top to bottom. The dang things trounce the competition in important benchmarks and pretty much stay cool while doing it. (Not discounting the Celerons here because it looks like the newer ones have there own benchmarks to stand on) Anyway...that approaching 80 percent market share that AMD maintained (Pre-Conroe) was ushered in with the Athlons and X2's but the Sempron carried it on it's back. Well....back to my Conroe build...

[glc]

Well - Sempron or Celeron - for a true budget machine, either will do the job fine. After all, a 50 buck processor is a 50 buck processor. What's more important is the motherboard - from a compatibility, quality, and a stability standpoint. I think you are looking too hard at the processor without considering the rest of the machine and exactly what you are going to USE it for.

If you already HAVE a processor and are looking for parts to build with around it, that's one thing - but if you are designing a build from scratch, look at the big picture. My suggestion implied onboard video was acceptable (you DID say basic office tasks) - with an AGP slot for an upgrade. It also uses standard DDR ram. You need to throw video and ram into the equation for planning this. Obviously anything with an 865 chipset (but that board DOES support C2D) or using a 754 or 939 socket is limited on upgrades.

[bd1886]

The Sempron 2800/64 socket 754 (oem) has fallen to 27.00. There are still a lot of mb's out there for it but they seem to be mostly 2nd tier brands. The price savings would be under 50.00 (for it and a motherboard) and the upgrade path will be non-existent shortly.

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by bd1886 The Sempron 2800/64 socket 754 (oem) has fallen to 27.00. There are still a lot of mb's out there for it but they seem to be mostly 2nd tier brands. The price savings would be under 50.00 (for it and a motherboard) and the upgrade path will be non-existent shortly.

I just bought 10 of those Sempron 2800/64 socket 754 for an international school in Lebanon. I am actualy going to build the 10 machines and donate them to the school.
I been planing on doing this for a while, when I saw the price on those processors I went ahead and made the purchase. I am going to combine them with BIOSTAR NF61S Micro motherboards and 512MB of Kingston Memory with Ubuntu for OS.
How do you go wrong buying a 64bit processor for $27.
By the way, a friend of mine has one of those clocking 2.7 Ghz using a Zalman cooler and it is running stable.

[glc]

Shall we see how cheap we can build a computer that's gonna work and not blow up in your face? (Remember - I will NOT build with garbage components or Via/SiS chipsets!) Prices are Newegg and include shipping.

Foxconn TS-1 case $61
Sempron 2800+ 754 retail box $34.50
Biostar NF61S $61
Corsair VS 512mb DDR400 $43
WD800JD $49
Lite-On combo drive - $30

$278.50, add peripherals, OS, and software.

Intel alternative:

Celeron-D 331 $43
Foxconn 865G7MF-SH $51

That's $1.50 cheaper. Call it a wash, of course.

So - 300 bucks or so with a cheap keyboard, mouse, and pair of tinny speakers. Add a $160 Sceptre X7G monitor and a throwaway printer.

Yes, people, you CAN build a $500 computer with a 17" LCD out the door with everything, as long as you use Linux and open source software.

HOWEVER - you can spend $600 (plus tax!) and get a prebuilt machine that will blow this one away. I did it for a Xmas present for my sister's stepson. It was a eMachine package deal at Best Buy with a Pentium-D 805, 1 gig of ram, a DVD burner, 200 gig hard drive, 15" LCD, cheap Canon printer, XP Media Center. ATI chipset, onboard video. They had AMD-based packages even cheaper, but with less ram, smaller hard drives, and single cores.

[faulkner132]

Originally Posted by glc I will NOT build with garbage components

Agreed.

Originally Posted by glc I did it for a Xmas present for my sister's stepson. It was a eMachine

Just giving you a hard time G...

[glc]

If my sister had given me a heads up, we would have done it another way (ordered a Dell) - but when she is calling me the week before Xmas standing in the computer department at Best Buy wanting to take a computer with her and I'm 2000 miles away, that kinda limits the choices.

eMachines are not the total piles of crap they used to be. The only difference now between an eMachine and a Gateway is the case badge. I'll take an eMachine over an HP product in a heartbeat.

[bd1886]

That's so funny how quickly the tide changes between makes. For builds, things change so quick that you just have to appreciate what you've already committed to and then stay current on stuff for any build your doing for others. In the short time that I've been learning this field,the changes have been huge! Hardware can't keep up with software, then software can't keep up with hardware. Formally top tier processors start competing with the baseline models. AMD rules...No... Intel!! Single 12v rail is fine... nope duals. Intellect tells you to expect it but the seeing of it change like that is still amazing.(In less than 2 years!) Truth is... a lot of web surfers and office machines are going to be running Conroe quad and the well balanced basic units, will follow them (for a good stretch into) the fray. Commit, move and don't look back. Those schools are going to use those computers and it will change lives...Priceless. (Sorry) They'll have a disk too!

[Stretchman]

This is my preferred case for budget systems at the moment - the PSU is a good one that will power a low-mid range dedicated video card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129012

I took some time to read reviews of this case. It looks good, just right for a micro-atx. Any thoughts on pros or cons versus the Solo though? Update: found this page with some very nice shots of the Antec Solo and NSK 4400 on display.

http://www.matbe.com/articles/lire/2...ndu/page10.php

I've played around a little with Beryl - it's very nice. It does need a pretty decent video card to run it smoothly though - I'd recommend an eVGA Nvidia 7600GS. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130075

I agree. The more I learn about it, the more i'm certain that this is something i'd like to use once I get comfortable with the basic Linux desktop.

Unless a motherboard specifically states that it has on-board Firewire, then it won't have it. PCI add-on cards aren't expensive, though. Front firewire ports on cases require dedicated motherboard 'headers'.

Thank you for expaining that to me. As GLC mentioned,

Yes, people, you CAN build a $500 computer with a 17" LCD out the door with everything, as long as you use Linux and open source software.

However, I do believe it's important to strike a balance between quality and price, and even for a budget 'buntu box, I want to make sure that each component will not only play nicely together, but do so for a long time to come. I think that's why I might shy away from a firewire-less mobo, although once again, i'm thinking somewhat ahead to a point of personal familiarity with Linux and Ubuntu where using peripherals might become commonplace.

eMachines are not the total piles of crap they used to be. The only difference now between an eMachine and a Gateway is the case badge. I'll take an eMachine over an HP product in a heartbeat.

I'm glad you mentioned that. For my 'Buntu Box it's one of the things I was also considering. Several years ago I found a small, out of the way corner of Dell's website that offered to sell a Dimension Desktop running Red Hat. I thought this was very cool at the time. Now, I think they still offer something comparable - the N series - with no OS installed and a copy of Freedos shipped with it. In fact, I suppose you could purchase a very nice, basic dell desktop and install Ubuntu on it after you've wiped the Windows OS.

Emachines have also come a long way, too. It's really all about the build rather than the brand. They also had a really powerful gaming machine debut a couple of years back, though i'm not sure if they kept up with that segment of the market since.

I know it's kinda late in the thread to still be talking Sempron but...that whole processor line gets nothing but respect from me

I hear ya. I must admit, I like my new cool-looking ATI avatar, but I try to avoid brand-centric thinking when it comes to piecing together the right tools for our computers.

All in all I think this is great - there are quite a few options in the low to midrange bracket for compiling a very decent Linux system. I've been flirting with the idea since the late 90's, but it looks like I can finally jump into this with a fair amount of confidence. In the meantime, I think i'm going to toy around with the Ubuntu Live-CD. Fedora 6 and Suse 10.2 also look attractive. Would anyone happen to know where I can download the Live CD's for these two distros?

[freakitchen]

The solo is a nicer case, no doubt about it. But it *is* a lot more expensive, and it doesn't come with a power supply. To add a quality one will add another $40-ish to the budget. I'd spend any extra cash you have on the components, and not the case.

I'd say don't get too hung up on finding a motherboard with on-board firewire. An add-on PCI card isn't a great expense, if you find you need it - you can add one at any time.

FK

[glc]

http://www.linuxhelp.net/linux_downloads/

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by glc Shall we see how cheap we can build a computer that's gonna work and not blow up in your face? (Remember - I will NOT build with garbage components or Via/SiS chipsets!) Prices are Newegg and include shipping. Foxconn TS-1 case $61 Sempron 2800+ 754 retail box $34.50 Biostar NF61S $61 Corsair VS 512mb DDR400 $43 WD800JD $49 Lite-On combo drive - $30 $278.50, add peripherals, OS, and software. Intel alternative: Celeron-D 331 $43 Foxconn 865G7MF-SH $51 That's $1.50 cheaper. Call it a wash, of course. So - 300 bucks or so with a cheap keyboard, mouse, and pair of tinny speakers. Add a $160 Sceptre X7G monitor and a throwaway printer. Yes, people, you CAN build a $500 computer with a 17" LCD out the door with everything, as long as you use Linux and open source software. HOWEVER - you can spend $600 (plus tax!) and get a prebuilt machine that will blow this one away. I did it for a Xmas present for my sister's stepson. It was a eMachine package deal at Best Buy with a Pentium-D 805, 1 gig of ram, a DVD burner, 200 gig hard drive, 15" LCD, cheap Canon printer, XP Media Center. ATI chipset, onboard video. They had AMD-based packages even cheaper, but with less ram, smaller hard drives, and single cores.

glc, I am gonna use this case, what do you think?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811173021

[Stretchman]

Thank you for the information. I'm downloading different ISO's as of this writing. By the way, without turning this into a "Best OS Ever!" thread, are there any particular Linux Distributions, or other OS's such as FreeBSD that you have enjoyed particular success with?

As a newcomer to Linux, i'm thinking that deciding on my initial favorite distro probably won't be a matter of features per say, but rather it'll be the one that does the best job at detecting my hardware and getting me up and running with minimal fuss.

Ubuntu is definitely going onto my box, but I thought, why limit myself there? So perhaps I could partition my drive during the install, and save some space for other linux distros, or something like FreeBSD, which i've become more and more curious about as of late.

Also, i'm using an AMD64 FX-55 on my main machine right now, is there a Fedora Core 6 or 7 "Live-CD" for that particular architecture?

[Alaron]

Take a look at the "Linux Advice for New Users" thread that is stickied at the top of this forum.

[Stretchman]

A lot of interesting info there, thx for pointing that out.

So I guess this is one of those questions where it's probably best to avoid the virtual peanut gallery and simply decide based on my own experiences. Sounds good to me.

[glc]

Originally Posted by Khalil glc, I am gonna use this case, what do you think? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811173021

Power supply is a piece of junk. It's a Bestec. I recommend the TS-1, and I just mentioned it in your other thread.

[Stretchman]

I'm glad you mentioned that. For my 'Buntu Box it's one of the things I was also considering. Several years ago I found a small, out of the way corner of Dell's website that offered to sell a Dimension Desktop running Red Hat. I thought this was very cool at the time. Now, I think they still offer something comparable - the N series - with no OS installed and a copy of Freedos shipped with it.

Never thought i'd find myself quoting my own reply, but there ya go. Anyway, it looks like Dell actually did sell Red Hat (and still does):

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3822185143.html

BTW - Are the Linux "Live-CD's" meant to detect all of your PC's hardware from the get go? I noticed that some of my live spin distros did a good job of detecting my monitor and USB flash drive, but fell short when it came to sound.