I'll tell you why Linux doesn't bloody crash so often!!!

[vitalstatistix]

ESC
right said Doc! as regard 2nd and 3rd opinion, well First opionion is the one that mattered.
its free entertainment, so why bother, enjoy the show while it lasts!



GTFX
PS: Doc, you mite have irked 'kids' by your post
PPS: it cannot be Isocor, they are a shade more wiser when it comes to shooting in the foot!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ex-Static-Cling:
OHHHHHH that is too funny .. hahaha Getafix the kid called you a closet M$-er. Will you be posting the list of hardware under you? Hmm do you think the wee laddie works for ISOCOR? *LOL*

Hey kid..err copyright-1978, please dont stop posting here, .. you're really funny.
With that rapier sharp wit, and your keen command of the abrasive use of HA and HA strung together, you give us some source of amusement.

PS: VTSTX - with that attitude he's beyond scope of the medical profession, you can of course take 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions too.

[This message has been edited by Ex-Static-Cling (edited 06-05-2000).]

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[This message has been edited by vitalstatistix (edited 06-05-2000).]

[vitalstatistix]

hey Uderzo

howdy dude, i take you also a fan of Asterix like me?

cheers

gtfx

[Xayd]

Well, after reading this thread, and being a self-taught Linux user myself, I thought I'd add a few things to both sides of the argument.

Yes, I agree, it comes from a UNIX model, so it's a server OS at heart. I personally started with Red Hat 6.0, simply because I heard that it was an easy distribution to set up. It wasn't terribly difficult with a good reference book, but the suggestion I'd make to the open source companies like Red Hat are this...

Instead of distributing thousands of packages with an OS that only work with model xxx-xx-yyy device, on the 3453.5.346l46.46 version of this kernel only, distribute software packages that work in virtually all configurations. Don't give me the line that "open source projects are ALWAYS in development", it doesn't wash. Either the distributed version of whatever software package works relatively well on MOST configurations, or it doesn't.

Second, instead of integrating ALL functions of the OS into a desktop environment (be it gnome or kde) that's shaky at best, make the desktop environment stable, and give it minimal capability until other functions are made 99% stable as well, then integrate them one at a time.

I like Linux because I like to tinker. It's a fun OS to play with, but it's far from fun to implement and configure. It is this way because companies like Red Hat are trying to put a clean shiny look on a collection of half built products. The development community has no obligation to warranty their software, I understand that. But even more so, commercial distributors of Linux have LESS of an obligation to distribute patchy, half completed, unstable software.

Linux would be a much more stable and much more "usable" OS if the commercial distributors would step up to the plate and regulate what goes into their distributions a bit. After all, I did PAY Red Hat for my OS. I'd at least expect them to give everything a run through on the MOST COMMON combinations of hardware and software implementations. Apparently, though, at least Red Hat, will throw anything in with their OS, working, unworking, beta, or whatever.

In my brand new 500 mhz machine all I needed was an OS that I could use, not a scrillion software packages that came unwarrantied and untested. I know the standard lacky response to this will be "what, you want Linux distributors to play Microsoft and start kicking developers out of the loop?"

No, I want an OS and software that does what the person I PAID claims, not software that MIGHT do what some 20 year old kid at "blah@bluh.bleh.ack.ugh.edu" claims.

Organization is the key. Though most Linux distributions have promise, organization they lack, and that will always keep them in second place to the Windows and MAC OS's.

Xayd

[This message has been edited by Xayd (edited 06-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Xayd (edited 06-06-2000).]

[Statica]

As opposed to what XayD? Bill Gates standing there giving the thumbs up of his 63K+ bugged version of extremely expensive hardware numbing, feature pathetic MicroCrap windoze?
Oh and lets not forget the amt of dough you need to shell out to get those service packs in and the disservice that Windoze does in not being able to bring out a single stable homeuser targetted filesystem [yeah FAT is archaic FAT32 is screwed!]

Personally, I'd rather have frequent upgrades, if a 20 yr old knows to code better than the eggheads that constitute a big brand corporation, so be it.
Besides, it is my belief that the moment you generalise hardware and put everything into the same pickle jar, you end at where you started from "Starting Windows" logo. My processors are different from yours, my logistics are different, my needs are different, forget even mine, I can have different systems on my very same network, one as the firewall one as the workstation, one as the fileserver, with that very same distribution of Linux, and each one of them could be optimized to my heart's content. Try getting an NT to function solely as a firewall, and then try to tell it to behave as a SAMBA server, while blocking out ports 139, and yet allowing UDP transmission through to port 65536...
& that my friend is why we have Linux, the ultimate power contained in a single CD all for free.
That way ultimately when the rest of the world goes to buying the "Septium" processors and the distributors of "common" processing solutions bring out their new release I wont be left in the lurch. I can put in what I want, upgrade what I want.

Oh yeah .. incidentally if you bought RedHat, you would get more support free of cost that you would get Microsoft.

And fortunately for us all, OpenSource is always in development, and not mired in the perpetual doldrum of having to release vulnerability patches and security updates once every 36 hours [at least!]

As regards the GUI, I agree, anyways none of my server implementations have the GUI, and most sysadmins I know wouldnt put it in too. But mostly cos its just a tax on a system and a liability anyway.

See your view of the OS is from the point of view of the enthusiast, mine is from the view of a networker, and I've had to put these OS' to the yoke everyday. For me Linux is simply perfect... except that it has been dumbed down a whole lot. If wishes were horses, I'd still be riding my Slackware horse.

[Statica]

Just thought I'd finish it off with this one last thought..
perhaps all this search for the alternative OS and coming up on Linux is a negative thing for Linux.

For example the average hardware chewing homeuser probably wants to do their spreadsheets and play some psychedelic implementation of a gory game..
Now here's where it gets interesting, normally they wouldnt think of installing windows NT on there, why? cos h/w support is very poor, grafix engines and optimizations are down there.
But all this talk about the stable environs of Linux has people believing that they need Linux, when they actually
(a) dont need it
(b) cant handle it
[I dont mean it pointing fingers to anyone, just a general opinion]
And when they fail, it gives a whole lot of negativity. OpenSource was there long before Linus popularized it, and it has been the de facto standards of getting these network integrated bits of programming out there.

---

Basically it boils down to, users not being able to understand their needs when it comes to computers. People trash their Pentiums run out and buy Pentium IIIs, they simply cannot fathom what % of their pentium was being used and if it ever turned out to be a bottleneck to their work. I know people, who hardly turn on their comps for a cpl of hours on full mooned nights, for a spot of websurfing, talking to me about upgrading their old processors.
The same way, why use a network OS, when you can deal with a home OS. Especially since you dont need security or reliability at a terrible sense of urgency.

[Joe Auman]

I have to agree on what Static says. Upgrading for no reason is a waste of everyone's time. I know this one kid who managed to get his parents to get the top of the line, Dell with a PIII 600Mhz, the fastest at the time. His old PII 450 would have done him nicely (doesn't play games and barely uses the internt). Now he brags on how he hasn't turned it on in over three (thats 3) months. I just sits there, looking pretty and becoming a dust magnet. It really irks me to see that those type of people have this much money to buy a new computer and not use. I guess they just want to tell their friends that they have the top of the line.

As for W2k, I would have loved to have it, but when I saw the prices, I could not belive someone could put such a price on software. $315 for the full version, and $250 for the upgrade. I don't think Bill will be selling too much any time soon.

------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[vitalstatistix]

xaYd
a) did you ever read the documentation b4 you start on any software?
b) most Linux software are part of CVS (go figure!) where you can get either the bleeding edge devel version or working or even an oder release. If you cannot decide which release you want to, why blame it on Linux.
c) Linux empowers its users, it doesnt decide for them.

This (c above) is the fundamental differnece between ready-to-crook sw from M$ and its lackies, and Open-Source. Ask yourself do you want some one else to decide for your software requirement, if so then dont come to Linux, on the contrary you wanna rule and control, then have fun with penguins!

cheers


gtfx

[Statica]

Hey druid:

Dont you mean ready to CROOK software? shareware, crippleware, nagware .. all of them the same.
Especially when you consider stuff like MRTG, the only thing the author wanted [if anyone was keen on it] was a music CD. Not only does it demonstrate an acute passion for utilizing coding talents for the good of coding, but shuns the "anything for money attitude" of the M$-domain.

In addition, consider this scenario:
8 months after installing windoze, you start having random hangups, or say you upgraded netmeeting to version y, and it wont utilize your video capture devices, who would you turn to for support? Calling M$? But you would have to pay .. emailing M$? Good luck! No, you are realistically relegated to one of these
(i) reinstalling the program or the OS [its true, most ppl do it] till u get the formula right
(ii) coming to a forum and hoping someone can solve it for you
(iii) searching through bug list and hope that M$ finds time to do something about inconsistencies between your h/w and M$ product.

Now consider the corollary .. the OpenSource model .. should an inconsistency arise
(i) the developer is listed by means of the *.edu addy that you scoffed, you can write to him
(ii) contact the FAQ maintainer, if different from the developer, or the repository owner where you found the s/w listed
(iii) Post on a linux prominent forum, the difference is that you will either be told what you did wrong, or a patch will be released by ANYONE [may or maynot be the developer]

& I havent even touched upon the obvious: wish lists that actually turn into reality.

quote:

---

Originally posted by vitalstatistix:
xaYd
a) did you ever read the documentation b4 you start on any software?
b) most Linux software are part of CVS (go figure!) where you can get either the bleeding edge devel version or working or even an oder release. If you cannot decide which release you want to, why blame it on Linux.
c) Linux empowers its users, it doesnt decide for them.

This (c above) is the fundamental differnece between ready-to-crook sw from M$ and its lackies, and Open-Source. Ask yourself do you want some one else to decide for your software requirement, if so then dont come to Linux, on the contrary you wanna rule and control, then have fun with penguins!

cheers


gtfx

---

[copyright_1978]

Vital, have you made love to Linux yet?

[vitalstatistix]

ROFL
C'right
Is this your idea of using a computer (sic) (ROFL). No wonder you dont like linux, becos it doesnt 'scr*w' you and your happiness like your favorite ones.(ROFL)

you are a walking talking living can of Nitrous Oxide. *LOL*

keep posting.

ROFL

Gtfx

PS: FYI, nitrous oxide == Laughing Gas (just in case)

PPS: Folks Isnt this most innovative use this dude(?) has put an operating system into,isnt it?

[Joe Auman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by copyright_1978:
Vital, have you made love to Linux yet?

---

This is wrong on so many levels, yet it is also incredibly funny! I never knew this forum could have so much life (or lack of it {directed towards Copy}). Ok, I understand that I was a raging looney, but at least I figured out what I was doing. Copy, take a day off and think about what you posted. You might find out that this is not the right thing to be doing. It worked for me.

P.S.- First post on the second page!


------------------
FATAL ERROR!!

Non-System brain or brain error!!
Replace and strike any key when ready.

[This message has been edited by Joe Auman (edited 06-07-2000).]

[copyright_1978]

Nah, mate... I bet vital mod probes his privates Using Linux.