Newbie: Downloading ISOs - Reformat too?

[David_Jones]

Hi,

I am a newbie to Linux, but I decided to take the plunge, and install it on an old laptop that I don't need for anything else now.

I am downloading the ISOs for Red Hat 7.3 (English version), being three ISOs to burn into CDs if I understand correctly. I have a dial-up 56k modem so it could take me weeks (literally) to get all three ISOs, but I am willing to be patient!

I am assuming that the first disc will be bootable, and will control the installation.

However, will I have to re-format my hard disc before hand, or can I just install Linux over the top of what is already there without worries (don't need the os, apps, or data - just don't want Linux to fall over).

Alternatively, I have heard that some Linux distributions include formatting, partitioning etc as part of the set up process (perhaps most distributions do this?)

If the latter is correct, would I be able to then install Win98SE and / or MS-DOS into additional partitions on the same HDD without problems (space permitting of course)?

Thanks for any help you can provide,

David.

[Statica]

Pretty much all Linux distributions have a graphical disk partitioning tool; just boot up with CD1 and you will be taken through the entire process smoothly.

Yes Linux will allow you to have another Windows OS on your HD, but for the sake of your sanity, you should install Windows first.

At this stage I would be more worried about your laptop having incompatible proprietary hardware; so check the Hardware Compatibility Lists (on RedHat webpage).

[David_Jones]

Thanks Statica - I will check out the lists as you suggest.

I may be getting ahead of myself, but should I start from a clean re-install of Win98SE or can I just run with the Win95 that is on the PC already?

[MaXimum SMOKE]

Generally when a linux install program finds an existing Win install, it offers to put a linux bootstap loader like Lilo into the Master boot record of the 1st hard drive and pretty much sets up a selector menu that gives you a chance to boot Linux or Win upon startup of the system. When you install a Win system like 98, or whatever, it generally writes over the linux loader program and you lose your ability to boot to linux, unless you have created the linux emergency boot floppy disk during the install. (Then you get to learn how to reinstall the linux loader after booting with the floppy) So it's best to have the Win you intend to use, installed first. The Linux loader generally works ok on most generic hardware. As always the "back up your important data rule applies" before manipulating partitions, or modifiying the master boot record

[David_Jones]

Thanks for the help guys.

One good thing for me here is that there is nothing whatsoever on the laptop that I need, so I don't care if Win98SE or Linux trash the entire HDD and I have to start again.

Also, it is only an experiment / hobby thing, so if it takes me a few weeks just to get both installed and running, then I am fine with that too.

Thanks again - I will be checking the laptop against the compatibility lists while downloading the ISOs (one down, two to go - took about 30 hours of actual transmission time from what I can tell!)

David.

[David_Jones]

Hi All,

As an aside, please could someone help me understand the MD5Sum facilty.

This is my current knowledge (right or wrong!):

I have an application called MD5Sum that runs from a DOS prompt. This application seems to take a file as the parameter), and produce a long string of characters that represent the file in some way. If I have the ISO downloaded without errors, the MD5Sum will have a certain value, verifying the integrity of the ISO.


This is the FTP folder I am downloading from (also attached as a JPG picture if it is slow to display for you):

ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/raid/6/re...3/en/iso/i386/

As you will see, within that folder there are three 'Valhalla i386' files, plus two 'Valhalla - SRPMS' files, and then the MD5Sum file.

I am downloding the three 'i386' files since all of my computers are IBM Compatible PCs - my compatibility checks might send me back to get the other distribution later, but let's ignore that potential issue for the moment.

I was assuming that the MD5Sum file would be a text document, giving me the MD5Sum 'output' that I should expect from each of the five ISOs in the folder, enabling the verifiation check, but that does not appear to be the case.

Am I missing the point here?

Thanks,

David.


PS: I was going to attach the MD5Sum file as a txt document, but one possibility is that I am somehow corrupting it by trying to view it as such.

[MaXimum SMOKE]

Md5sum is an application that is usually put into a directory that is in the Operating Systems path, like windows directory. That way the command can always be executed regardless of what directory you are in. So say you downloaded the isos to a directory called 'download' .... You drop to the dos prompt from windows. Program Files --- Accessories -- MS-DOS prompt. You are now staring at the dos screen. So you change directory to your download directory cd c:\download You activate the program for the first iso by typing
md5sum valhalla-i386-disc1.iso and push {ENTER}, after a little churning the program will give you the filesum, which in this case we hope it will be a91011f1c6b5f331d120d33ee5898d95
If it is we assume the file is o.k. This program has no graphical interface and must be run and viewed in a dos box. It generates nothing but an output to the screen, in the dos box. If you are typing it in the "RUN" command line from the start menu, you probably will never see the output, since the dos box will close before you can read it. In this case that md5sum listed at ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/raid/6/re...3/en/iso/i386/
,above the files is an html page link to the page on the server that has all those checksums on it. Open the link and print the page.

[David_Jones]

Apologies for being slow here, but how is that file (MD5Sum) a link?

My computer doesn't seem to understand it as such.

I checked other links (on my PC), and they seem to be either:

- FileName.Lnk (being a shortcut); OR

- FileName.URL (being a URL link to a page / file etc either on the internet, LAN / Network resource, or local client).

I am looking forward to kicking myself once enlightened - I can just feel it is going to be that kind of solution!

Thanks for your help,

David.

[MaXimum SMOKE]

I clicked on it like any hyper link. The page opened, and the data for the files listed was this :

a91011f1c6b5f331d120d33ee5898d95 valhalla-i386-disc1.iso
422948492b984060b21923d11febb422 valhalla-i386-disc2.iso
505a73bac591882c14c80bfe452cd757 valhalla-i386-disc3.iso
9fc872b4dca927dfd86b80cba4da4814 valhalla-SRPMS-disc1.iso
88f1e7b2187402e29fe1377a1209f42b valhalla-SRPMS-disc2.iso

[David_Jones]

{Kick} {Kick}

Iwas doing it in my FTP client.

When I went there in IE (being lazy I thought at first), it worked just fine.

Sorry for the brain failure, and thanks!

David.

[mattg2k4]

When installing linux and windows on the same computer, should you have the part of the drive you want to put linux on unpartitioned? If your drive is only one partition right now, will you have to repartition it? I've heard a lot of stories of people destroying windows when they install linux and I want to get it right.

[MaXimum SMOKE]

Hi Matt,
Yes, I agree, generally, for the most part you should have the space available in advance! With regard to general use of the Linux graphical partitioning tools... If you are using a graphical partitioning program, you can get a pretty good feel for what partition is what. The biggest problem I see is from people being what I like to call 'default installers'. Ever watch some folks install things and they don't read anything, just keep 'hitting return'? You'd swear that if a message box came up that said 'melt down your hard drive now? YES no' they'd probably hit return for that too... Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make, is that if you do a custom partitioning with a graphical installer, and look and read first before you start deleting and building partitions, you can do a partitioning job O.K. A little reading about what Linux partitioning is all about in advance is a key also. People that started in the DOS days, also have a big advantage, since you actually had to know the basics of partitioning for that too. A default Linux installer on an empty drive will often create more partitions then are absolutely needed, too. Bare minimum , you need 1 linux swap partition ( I like about 350 meg) and 1 linux native (Ext3) partition, which is mounted as / ( I like about 2 gig or so minimum for that ). People can debate all day as to the required amount of space or resources, but I'm thinking along the lines of fairly knowlegeable windows user, that is just beginning with Linux. Personally I don't care for taking the windows harddrive, that has only 1 large "C" partition on it and turning it into a multi os drive. Anytime you do this, you have a risk of losing that partition, and all it's data. If your windows install isn't important to you, that is one thing. If it would be inconvenient to lose that Win partition, I suggest putting in a separate hard drive for your Linux install. They are a pretty cheap item these days. For the person that can't afford to lose the Win partition..... (This important data should be being backed up to other media on a regular basis), and that individual should find another computer to do his alternate OS experimenting on. That's my opinion, at any rate. Linux can be a very rewarding experience, for those that wish to learn about Unix systems, or just have the desire to explore a new frontier. I hope you can join us -MS

[mattg2k4]

Thanks for the info MS, I've never done dual boot systems before, so does that work if the OS's are on two hard drives? If I do win on one drive and linux on the other, where linux is the primary OS, should linux be on the master drive I assume?

[MaXimum SMOKE]

Hi Matt,
Really it makes little difference to the linux loader, if you're using it to select your OS upon startup of the computer. I'm talking 9x win stuff, someone else may have better ideas for the NT, XP stuff. On a typical (for me) install I may have the first hard drive with say win Me installed, and the second with Linux. If they are ide hard drives the typical thing could be: the first drive is /dev/hda . If it has only 1 partition, the partition would be hda1 . The second physical hard drive would be /dev/hdb for the linux install. Lilo would point to /dev/hda1 for the win startup and to whatever physical partition has the linux kernel for the linux startup. The install process for Redhat and Mandrake pretty much take care of that, as you'll see. The only thing I am personally aware of that can make life screwy is if you have an abnormal condition. Say you have a hard disk that is too big for the computer's bios to understand, and you have used a software fix to over come this. (Some refer to this as drive geometry translation software, or the like) That software fix is usually written to the Master Boot Of the drive. Now if you replace that with a linux bootstrap loader...... You probably won't be able to access that drive anymore. I hope this clarifies, more than confuses. (This software is often included with new drives and some people choose to use it even if they don't need it) The old rule of thumb is back up any files you can' t afford to lose before messing with the Master boot record of a drive. -MS

[LoveJones]

Might I suggest www.cheapbytes.com. I am a broke student but still found the 8 bucks I had to spend WELL worth it to get Linux on disk.

I also would suggest the Mandrake distribution for folks new to Linux. I am relatively new to Linux myself and have loved Mandrake so far.