I just want an Apache box on my network

[zevon8]

Ok, big time newbie here......

I have a spare P233MMX 64M and can get Hd to suit ( have a few 2G's laying around )

What I would like to do is set up an Apache web server for use on my small network, no outside connects, just internal to develope websites. Can I set this up as a "headless-box" that I FTP the files onto?

The 2 developement PC's are Win98.

I have Red Hat 6.2 & 7.0, Mandrake 7 & 7.2

Is there a really "bare" way to do this, do I need the GUI ?
can I just control the sever via telnet over my network?

The goal for me is to be able to create/test a site, then burn it to CD and upload it to a clients ISP as a finished product.

Sorry for the Huge Question, but all my surfing research has just created more questions than answers.


Humbly greatful for any suggestions. TIA

[mairving]

I have been playing around on a similar system as yours. I don't think that you will need the GUI interface. I guess it depends on if you are creating Web pages on Linux. About any version will really do the trick for you. Here are a couple of suggestions:

• E-smith Linux. (Current Version 4.0) ISO image available. 140MB download. Pretty small distro based on RedHat 6.1. It does not come with Apache but you can RPM it into the system. It is about a 160MB install. You have no configuration options and it puts some files in odd places.
  
• Slackware (Current Version 7.1) - ISO image - 640MB. A bunch of configuration options & some added security. It will actually tell you if you setup a wimpy password. You can install & run only what you want. You have to use the Linux version of FDISK or CFDISK to set up your partitions.
  

You might also get a book on the subject. I have found a great book call Linux Network Server 24-7. It covers not only security but setting up the system step by step from what kind of partitions to make, how to use FDISK, etc. Good help. Ex-Static-Cling can also give you more information but this is my 2-cents. I have also found a good place to get ISO images is at http://www.linuxiso.org/ . They have most distro and the mirrors are pretty fast.

[zevon8]

Thanks alot for the info, I seen mention of the e-smith product, and I did d/l it.

Is it similar to WinProxy by Ositis? (firewall,NAT,Proxy)

I have the Osborne "complete Reference to RH Linux", figured I would need something, and everywhere I looked stuff seemed to be based on RH. I am looking to get another book, either the new O'Reilly "Linux in a Nutshell" or maybe the one you named.

I won't be creating the pages on the Linux box, I just want a test bed for serving the pages locally, mainly so I don't have to use my own space at my ISP.

I also want to learn more about Linux.

Thanks again!

[mairving]

I don't know about E-smith. I thought that I would like it but I felt that there were several problems with it. One problem that was really quite annoying is that it boots to a console. You can make changes to your system and then for those changes to take affect you have to reboot. I am thinking what is this, Windows. You really don't need a server that you have to reboot when you reconfigure something. It was not as secure as it could be also. The main thing that it had going for it was that it is a small Linux install. Really any version of Linux can work for you in this capacity. Slackware or FreeBSD may be the one to go with.

As far as books are concerned, you really can't go wrong with any of the O'Reilly books.

It is also wise to view your new web pages on a Linux box using Netscape. Sometimes they look loads different.

Linux is a great OS. It can be a bit aggravating at times. Here are a couple of little tips for Linux:

1. Use the Tab Key. if you wanted to enter the word NetscapeNavigator.gz at the command line, you can type in Nets TAB KEY and it will complete your typing for you.
   
2. Another tip is that if you wanted to see what ls is type in either man ls or ls --help. You do have to remember that Linux is case sensitive.
   

[zevon8]

Got Slackware 7.1, now its time to start doing installs, and see which will let me do the easiest minimal install I guess. I am hoping to avoid a hardware hit with a bloated GUI, I really don't mind config files, and working in text, just as long as I have documentation/examples of what is supposed to be there, if you know what I mean.

I would rather get to know Linux by working with the OS directly, rather than learning a GUI that is not common to all distros, and sheilds me from what it is I'm doing.
Therefore I will take your advice and "get my hands dirty" by 'creating' it myself.

Thanks again.

Oh yeah,......

Got a laff from the tip about viewing pages via Linux & NS, have had many hilarious experiences with that. One website a contracted person made for my office was written with tons of Java Script, CSS and all the latest greatest BS including ASP for passwords & database connectivity. I guess he didnt read the part of the "project description" that listed our ISP as running Apache, and that at least 40% of our clients use a version of Netscape.

[Statica]

It doesnt matter what Linux you use,its all GUI optional. If u are a new user, you should prolly beneifit from having it on. But in the long run your console is the one that will be more stable.

Slackware is indeed a very stable distribution, but its not exactly bleeding edge. Mandrake is the one that is on the cusp of whats new. If you want something that resembles even closely to a good Apache box then RedHat is the best variety of Linux. [I would presonally endorse only OpenBSD].

If u are using Linux, and apache, please make sure that you PATCH for vulnerabilities if you are going to take it on the net. ESPECIALLY THE RAMEN WORM


I cannot stress enuff to ppl who install Server components, avoid RPMs & DEPs like the plague, for components like apache, SQL, PHP etc etc. user tarballs and compile urself!!! It doesnt matter what distribution of Linux you use, all that you need to make sure is u got a new kernel [or close to anyways] and a new version of apache

Mairving: E-smith is meant to be a router OS, no console, the merits of E-smith are just that, do nothing but network, cant compare it with a full linux. E-smith and others are what you would call a specialized distribution. PS: net changes never need a reboot. I have an esmith in the office simply for ICS, its at 5+ months without a single restart, while the h/w around keeps changing per my whims!

A bit late, but hope u get the time to read it.

cheers

[mairving]

I wasn't really comparing E-smith to a full blown Linux box. I just thought that it was odd that it required a reboot. While Mandrake is one of my favorites, I don't think it would give you much room on a 2GB hard drive. The recommended install is about 700-800MB. I have been playing around with a lot of the distro's lately. I have installed about 12 different flavors now. Slack was the only one that told me that I had a wimpy password. Most of the others let me use "password" for the root password. Corel & Mandrake will allow you to have a null password. Not good options.

Question for you. If there is no ISO image available, how or what do I download to burn a CD? The problem with that may be that my burner is on a Windows-only (for now) box. I did find an ISO image of OpenBSD, not from them though. The other question that I have is, what exactly is wrong with RPM's? I have seen a lot of bad press about them but I am unsure of their problems.

[Statica]

password dictionary files are installed later on most full blown corporate linux flavors, slackware just installs it more professionally IMO.

If there is not using ISO, read
INSTALL.i386 file in your flavour of OpenBSD's version directories, it should give u direction on what you need to download and how to burn to CD, with/without bootable CD option [bootable CD is easy for most WIn s/w of late, if you have the boot files on a 3.5"]
For example: http://gandalf.neark.org/pub/distrib...6/INSTALL.i386

HTH

[zevon8]

thanks Ex-Static-Cling, good points about patches, etc

re RPM's - is it a security issue in that they could have "unkown" code within?

My only beef with a "desktop" package was that alot of stuff that would never get used and could pose problems on the internal network gets installed. I have read where you end up with all sorts of services running and megs of niceties installed you don't need. ( OK, the "tea-cooker" is cute, but really?!?)

[Statica]

Oops I forgot to touch on my loathing for RPMs, didnt I? Sorry Mairving ;)

Ahh yes, RPMs [leaning back in rocking chair with pipe, and far awy look in eyes].. well for anything mission critical, I stay away from RPMs, and there are a lot of reasons why most people who deal with mission critical Linux will do so..
For one, you cannot guarantee the integrity of your RPM build. & a fatal installation would mean horrible problems.
RPMs can be gotten from a variety of sources, and not everyone knows what they are doing. The other thing is that the RPM is basically a standard installation, if you have done anything new the RPM will not account for it. More often than not, the reports by RPMs during installation/uninstallation are wrong [that was the prob manifest in old builds]. The distribs themselves do a lot of good RPM making, but then come fly-by-night operators who dont do it right, and there are a lot of Distrib specific macros that are not accounted for. Its always best to make whatever you need and install. It will take your installation beyond a generic install to customization per your needs etc.

This is very short, there are loads of problems as well, but am kinda tied up at the moment

---

zevon8: you must be thinking of windows :) Actually Linux is very clean in what it installs, provided you dont follow generic install. If you arent familiar with Linux, the GUI might be a good place to start [but a horrible place to learn], the only place better is with a book, but I see u have already done that! Regarding services, there isnt anything new that an Xserver will cause, that you dont want installed in your server section of installation. Yes GUI is unnecessary, and among the dozens of Linux' boxes that I deployed/work with, only my workstations run a GUI.

Cheers

[mairving]

Thanks, Static for the info on RPM's. The GUI interface makes it easy to do easy things like configuring a NIC. But like I said, it is easier for the simple things. The more comlex aspects of setting up a network, etc. are definitely done better outside of the interface. Plus it is usually faster and you learn more about what you are doing by using the command line.

If you are using Apache, then you will not be using a GUI interface (unless you want to try Commanche).

You can pick and choose what you want to install but therein lies the problem. If you pick and choose sometimes you have to go through 700 or so packages to do so. You are right when you say that some flavors will start out as the default running a lot of daemons that you don't want or need. But look at it like this, you are not going to have to have super security off the bat. Once you figure out which are running, then figure if you need them, then figure out how to disable them. You can blow away a lot of the undesirable stuff later.

On this Pentium 200 w/64MB RAM system that I am running, the KDE or Gnome desktops run fine, not accessing the swap much. The font support is not that good on most. Suprisingly TurboLinux had the best font support off the bat. I guess because it asks during setup if you want to use 100dpi or 75dpi fonts. None of the others asked. So that is my 2 cents again. As has been said, you can't go wrong with any of the flavors, except maybe Corel.