Multiple Router Help

[shifted90]

I have this problem and I think I need your help.

Well, I'm moving on Monday and we need to set up the internet and routers, obviously, but I decided I needed 2 routers. I was wondering if it is possible to hook up one router from the cable modem, then one from the main router.

Like this:
MODEM
|
Router---------------------------------------
| | | |
| Computer Computer Computer
|
Router---------------------------------------
| | | |
Computer Computer Computer Computer

If I CAN do that, would I be able to access the control panel for the router? By control panel, I mean like the place where you can forward ports and stuff. (192.168.1.1 for Linksys... Don't know exactly what you call it so I'll just say control panel.)

Also, can I install a firmware on the second router?

Thank you!

EDIT: Wow that picture came out weird. It didn't take in the spaces that I put. Just in case, its...

Modem to Router 1.
Router 1 to Router 2, Computer 1, Computer 2, Computer 3
Router 2 to Computer 4, Computer 5, Computer 6, Computer 7

[Statica]

If you havent already bought the routers and other network hardware, I would suggest using one router and a cheap unmanaged switch - it should be cheaper than buying a second router, and wont create a mess in management. I'm assuming that you're going for a 2 router setup because you dont have enough LAN ports on them to connect 7 computers. Know that one router is capable of assigning much more than just 7 IP addresses, the physical limitation notwithstanding.

As to your question about using 2 routers, it should work fine, but you will need to first configure them separately. Plug in the first router and force it to use an IP address (say 192.168.0.1) and to provide 192.16.0.2 statically to the second router (whose MAC address you should see on the box. Also make sure that you allow the DHCP server to assign only 4 IP addresses (192.168.0.2 for router B, and 3 other computers). Preferably you can assign them all statically so as to avoid conflict.
Remove the first router, and now plug in the second router. Have it acquire a static address, and not a dynamic one as is common with most ISPs. Have it use an IP address that is not assigned by the first router. Disable DHCP.

[shifted90]

That's really confusing so I'll just get that switch. LOL. Thanks.

[shifted90]

Sorry for the double, but how do you set up a switch? Do you just bring in one of the cables from the router to the switch?

EDIT: Would this do?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833124016

with

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833124010

[Statica]

Yep that would do just fine and yes you just take a cable to the switch.

[PC2K]

Statica,

Is it possible to do I configure with following multi-router scenario:

I like to make a router (Secured) and another router (Unsecured), doesnt matter which sequence as long it works. I need Both Routers LAN to NOT able see each other. Any ideas?

Thanks,
PC2K

[glc]

You can use a single router and the 2 lans will not see each other if you put them in 2 different workgroups.

[PC2K]

Well..basically I like to setup where visitors coming to my residence can use the unsecured wi-fi router and not able to see my secured PCs network on the other router. I being seeking answers for months with no avail, I dont know if anyone knows how this can be done from the one WAN.

[glc]

They aren't going to see your network if they are not in the same workgroup.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by PC2K Well..basically I like to setup where visitors coming to my residence can use the unsecured wi-fi router and not able to see my secured PCs network on the other router. I being seeking answers for months with no avail, I dont know if anyone knows how this can be done from the one WAN.

There are 2 good ways to do what you want. You can get 3 routers and set them up in a Y configuration, with your normal network on one branch and the guest access on the other branch.

OR

You can build your own router out of an old computer and free customized linux software and include what's called a blue interface to connect the wireless to. See this thread for more details.

GLC, while it's true that being in different workgroups would prevent completely easy browsing of shared files just by opening up Network Places, in my experience it does not actually block anything at all. So long as there is not a firewall blocking access, I've always been able to browse computers in any workgroup just by entering \\hostname, \\IP, or just clicking up a few levels from network places after choosing "view workgroup computers" and then seeing all the workgroups on the network.

[PC2K]

Originally Posted by glc They aren't going to see your network if they are not in the same workgroup.

I know that basic configuration, but is NOT what I looking for. I'm talking about I needed the Two Routers to Not see each other, at the same time getting internet from one-single WAN internet. Goal is to set one router for my internal private Secured use, another router for Unsecured. For example, I dont want anybody comes to my home and use wi-fi internet on the "unsecured-router" able to see any of my PCs in my other "secured-router" private LAN. Someone suggestion, to set router 1 as Public and router 2 as private, I'm unclear how to accomplished method. If this is configurable, it's great because, I also wanted the two router to appear in different names.

[PC2K]

There are 2 good ways to do what you want. You can get 3 routers and set them up in a Y configuration, with your normal network on one branch and the guest access on the other branch.

Can explain little bit more details, Y configuration, I think this is probably easier. If necessary, NO problem, I'll get additional hardwares. If you dont mind suggests..

Thanks.

[mojo]

Now that I think more about it, you can achieve what you want with only 2 routers, but to toally separate 2 networks you'd need a full 3. Place 2 routers in series, connect your private machine to the downstream ones, and leave the wireless open on the upstream one. To be more clear, you'd have the modem, connected to the first router, which is open for guests and also connected to the second router, and your private computers would connect to the second router. This way guests can't see your files or hack you, but you could still possible get into their computers. If you want full security both ways, you'd need 3 and set them up in a Y.

Edit:
I finally found the reference I was looking for. If you're extremely worried about security, you will need the full Y configuration. Go here, http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-018.htm and search for the string of text "Because of something known as ARP poisoning" in the page, then read that paragraph. If you just want guest access for your friends and aren't worried about them being extremely advanced hackers, you'll be fine with 2 routers.

[thefultonhow]

I would highly recommend the second method Mojo suggested in this situation. It would be simpler, more versatile and more powerful.

[PC2K]

I think I still like method 1, I lack Linux and besides with spaces, I rather have stackable routers working together.

Mojo, can you clarify how to set from router 1 to modem, router 2 to 1, 3 to 2 etc.. For instance, I need to configure the IP addresses with and/or disabled DHCP etc on each router., How this could be done. I got both of my router by Netgear 108 Wireless G, default to 192.168.1.1, will get the third one same or similar make.

Appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[thefultonhow]

Originally Posted by PC2K I think I still like method 1, I lack Linux and besides with spaces, I rather have stackable routers working together.

Lacking Linux experience is not a reason not to use IPCop/Smoothwall/Endian. All three set themselves up for easy administration through a web interface, so you will never actually have to touch the computer itself after the (easy) setup process. I have very little Linux experience, and what experience I have I did not have to use to set up Endian.

Stackable routers are a kludgy way to do this and will likely end up costing more money anyway.

[mojo]

I would highly recommend going the linux route as well. Much simpler, much cheaper, and much less likely to cause you problems. It'll also be a great learning experience. If you really want to use multiple routers...

Modem to router 1 (WAN port), router 1 (LAN ports) to routers 2 and 3 (WAN port on each). You'll actually leave dhcp enabled on all three of them (this is how you get the security/separation that you want), and make sure to set them to different IP ranges or your network won't function. This means that you'll have 2 layers of NAT to go through, which gets really messy when you try to forward any ports or do much at all besides just general web surfing.

[PC2K]

Ok all,

I have been experimenting one similar method Mojo mentions and it seem that the Guest router couldnt get into my network Router ( It's great!), but I wasnt sure if this is pretty secured. It's looks as it is very secured though, even with when I tried to browse with the IP/Host Name into the other network. The Router refused, asking for login and password, I think the routers firewalled and secured..?

Here's how my set-up, not necessary with the third router. Router 1 default @ IP 192.168.1.1 LAN port to WAN port of Router 2. Router 2 IP @ 10.0.0.1. Both routers w/DHCP enabled. I got another router the Netgear N gigabit series. If I understand Mojo correctly, the third would be my private router LAN? I missed the importance of the third router.

Thanks.

[mojo]

You only need the third router if you are extremely concerned that advanced hackers will be attacking you. Here's the rationale behind using a full 3 router setup. I got it from here, http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-018.htm .

"If you put the insecure network inside and the secure network outside, the problem is it - because, as we know, NAT routers are like one-way valves - the insecure network would have upstream access to your secure resources, which is a bad thing. If we reverse it, if we put the insecure one upstream and the secured one downstream, sort of inside, you still have a problem because now the insecure network is on your perimeter, and it could potentially see the traffic coming from your secured network."

So for you, it would probably be ok to have your private network be on router 2, and guests on router 1.