Questions on networking two computers.

[70JUDGE]

I have a few questions on how to network two computers.The main computer is a custom built with a Soyo P-41 Fire Dragon 2.4 with built in ethernet,and Windows ME,and the other one a Compaq 7478 533 with a Linksys USB200M USB Ethernet adapter,and Windows 98SE.I have Verizon DSL with the Westell Versalink 327W.Ethernet one goes to the Custom,and Ethernet two to the Compaq.Both with Cat 6 patch cables. Right now I can share the printers,files between the two computers, and the internet,but the Compaq has trouble with the internet.It will connect to the internet fine for awhile,but it seems when I try to connect to what I think is a complex page,it stops trying,and brings up page cannot be displayed,and I can't connect to the internet,or the other computer until I reboot the Compaq.I can share files back and forth for as long as I want with no problem.But when the internet stops responding,sometimes I can still transfer files,but most of the time I can't.I thought the Compaq might be too slow?The Compaq also locks up even just sitting there.Sometimes it might be after an hour, sometimes it might take all night long.It has been doing this even before I tried networking the two machines.The network cable going to the Compaq has a long power cord running beside it that might be interferring with it?I thought maybe I might need Internet Connection Sharing turned on,but the file sharing wouldn't work with it on,and works with it off.What settings do I really need?TCP/IP,NETBEUI, IPX/SPX?Maybe the IP addresses are wrong?What should I have for those?The same?Different?Right now,I only have the TCP/IP turned on on both machines.Also,the custom has two network adapters in the network settings.An Intel Pro/100 VE network connection,and a NDIS 1394 Net Adapter.Should one of these be set to default protocol?I see there is a checkmark box in each one under advanced.It will only let me check one adapter.I also tried the Home Networking wizard.In it,it asked me what I used to connect to the internet on each computer. Connecting directly,or through another computer.I tried both choices on the Compaq,and both connected.With the Westell,it doesn't really connect through the other computer,they are both connected to the internet by themselves,right?So a direct connection to the internet through the adapters should be checked on both?Sorry for the very long post!Any help is greatly appreciated.Thank You very much!

Tyler

[glc]

Get rid of that USB adapter and put a PCI 10/100 adapter in the Compaq. USB networking in 98SE is pretty flaky.

I'd get rid of IPX - all you really need is TCP/IP but NetBEUI is an excellent backup.

[dm9719]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum. I have a similar setup with Verizon DSL and the Westell 327W, so hopefully I can be of some help.

Tyler, I agree with the previous reply that you should lose the USB ethernet adapter. I has been my experience as well that usb-networking and Win98 don't always play nice together. The fact that when you reboot the Compaq network connectivity is restored would seem to support this. The Comapq's 'locking up' behavior, which you said existed before you attempted to network the 2 machines, also leads me to believe that the Compaq itself is the root of your problems, and not any config issues with the DSL service or the Westell. That being said, replacing the usb nic with a PCI nic would be a good first step, keeping in mind that other non-networking issues with the Compaq may also need to be addressed.

Regarding your overall network setup, here are some other things to be aware of:

- IPX is only needed if you are communicating with pcs running the Novell operating system; most home users are not. You can safely remove that protocol from both of your pcs.

- NetBEUI can only be used on a local area network - the pcs connected together in your home. It is not used to communicate with computers on the Internet because it is non-routable. As previously stated, you can use it as a backup to TCP/IP, and that would allow continued communication among your local pcs if something went wrong with TCP/IP. However, NetBEUI is a 'chatty' protocol, meaning that it generates a lot of network traffic, so I wouldn't have it enabled on any nic unless you really need it.

- Internet Connection Sharing (ICS) - Based on the configuration you describe, you should not be using ICS on either pc. The ICS functionality is provided by the Westell, meaning it will give your pcs the necessary TCP/IP configuration settings (IP address, gateway, etc) automaticlly when they are started. You should check each pc's network settings to verify that they are set to automatically obtain this information.

- IP Addresses - Each device on your network (including the Westell) must have a unique IP address. Generally, ICS configurations use the private IP address 192.168.0.1 for the router (Westell) and 192.168.0.2, 3, 4, and so on for the other pcs. You can check your IP address by using the command: winipcfg at a command-prompt.

Sorry about my long post Hopefully this info will be helpful to you. Start by dropping a PCI network card in the Compaq as recommended in the previous reply and we can go from there. Best of luck!

Dave

[glc]

The "chattiness" of NetBEUI doesn't really hurt anything till you get several computers on the network - with just 2 of them it's no issue at all. I always use it for simple filesharing between 2 or 3 machines.

[70JUDGE]

Thank You all for the replies.I have a few more questions.I hope I'm not bothering anyone with all these questions!Sorry if I am!I don't mind everyones long post,the longer the better!As far as the Compaq,I should have mentioned that I had trouble with it before when the board went on it.Maybe what ever happened to it,the damage is still in there,and that is why it still locks up.There were a couple of capacitors that were blown by the CPU.So I bought a used board to replace it.Before I bought the USB adapter,I had tried the PCI card,but ran into trouble.I had a USB 2.0 card that was interfering with it,and the Compaq wouldn't recognize the network card.I thought I could change something in the BIOS,but the Compaq has a very limited BIOS,so I bought the USB adapter.Somewhere I was reading that when installing a network card,that it should always be installed in a bus mastering slot.Which they said is the first, or second slot.I had mine in the bottom. What is a bus mastering slot?Are all the slots on the Compaq 7478 bus mastering?Would the speed of the hard drive on the Compaq as well as the speed of the machine itself affect the speed of the network?By that I mean,if the hard drive speed in the Compaq is 33,or 66,I'm not getting the 100 I guess it's called either megabits,or megabytes that the cards are,right?As far as speed between wireless,and wired networks.Wired is only faster transfering files between computers,not downloading on the the internet,right?What is the range of the wireless on the Westell 327W?How many wired,and or wireless computers cam be hooked up to the Westell 327W?More then the four,right?If I want to hook up more then 4 wired,I hook a router to E1?The uplink they call it?The router wouldn't work on E2 through E4?A couple more questions!Sorry!I have one cable running upstairs right now E2 to one computer.If I wanted to hook another computer in another room,do I have to run another cable up from the Westell 327W E3?Or do I hook the cable I already have going up there to the E1 up link,and hook the other end to a router,then a cable to each machine?So the E1 light would be blinking when either computer upstairs is active,right?So basically only E1 is capable of supporting a router?So for another router,I would have to hook to the one I put upstairs,because the Westell 327W would be maxed out as far as the routers,right?The other question is,is there any way to automatically log yourself onto the network?Right now,I have to hit enter on each machine to log on.Probably not a good idea,right?Sorry again for the long post!Thank You all very much for all the help!

Tyler

[70JUDGE]

I have a couple more questions.If I were to go wireless,which would be better.A USB wireless adapter,or a PCI one?Is the PCI better than the USB in this case too?Also,what does the speedboost function do?Thanks Again!

Tyler

[dm9719]

Not bothering me, Tyler; always happy to help if I can As I understand it, bus mastering allows PCI controllers to communicate with each other directly, as opposed to communicating through the processor. When you tried the PCI nic, how many other PCI cards were installed? Maybe there was a device conflict? The specs on the HP website do not specify if your PCI slots are bus-mastering, just that there are 4 of them.

The Westell 327W has 4 Ethernet ports, so a max of 4 wired pcs can be connected to it. The E1 port is the uplink port, but from what the user manual is saying, it seems that the uplink functionality must be enabled through an ini file. The user manual can be found here:

http://www.westell.com/content/sales/327W.pdf

I don't use E1 myself. I have 7 pcs running to a Linksys hub, then use the uplink port on the hub to connect to E4 on the Westell. I don't know if this is a recommended configuration, but it works. How many wired pcs are you looking to connect? Maybe this hub/switch to router config could work for you? Hubs aren't that expensive. I suggest this because the thought of connecting two routers together seems like a configuration nightmare to me

Wireless: My company has not yet moved to this technology and I don't use it at home, so I have no practical knowledge here - maybe somebody out there could school us both My guess would be that the Westell could support as many wireless clients as bandwidth would permit. The user manual does not specifically answer this either.

Dave

[glc]

No, you would not hook a router to the Westell to expand the ports - you would connect a switch. Use the E1 port to connect to a switch. It looks like you can connect more wired and wireless computers to it than you will ever use, you have the whole 253 address subnet available. PCI is *always* better than USB, but USB seems to work fairly well with Win2K or XP and a reasonably powerful computer. Hard drive speeds have nothing to do with networking issues. Leave your logins the way they are, that's best.

[dm9719]

Originally Posted by glc No, you would not hook a router to the Westell to expand the ports - you would connect a switch. Use the E1 port to connect to a switch. It looks like you can connect more wired and wireless computers to it than you will ever use, you have the whole 253 address subnet available. PCI is *always* better than USB, but USB seems to work fairly well with Win2K or XP and a reasonably powerful computer. Hard drive speeds have nothing to do with networking issues. Leave your logins the way they are, that's best.

GLC, could you please clarify something for me? Are you saying that the number of wireless clients the Westell can support is limited by the number of available IP addresses: 192.168.0.2 thru 192.168.0.254?

I think I may have misunderstood Tyler's question: I thought he meant how many concurrent wireless connections to the Westell; that's why I was thinking bandwidth. Thanx.

D

[70JUDGE]

Thanks Again for all the replies.The question was how many wireless computers can access the Westell 327W at the same time?As many as are within range?Also,how about wired?As many as I can wire,or just the four?I thought maybe it could be expanded with another box somehow,and then that box with another?Or is there a limit on both by the number of IP addresses?What would I do in the case of having two computers upstairs with the one cable already going up there?Hook that cable to a switch,or a hub,and run a cable from the switch,or hub to each machine?The other end on E1?What is the difference between a hub,and a switch?What is the E1 uplink port for?Is this the only one I can use in the case of the two computers I have upstairs?Say I was to run E3 to another end of the house,and have two more computers at that end?What would I do in that case?Why didn't they just make a separate uplink port on the Westell 327W?As far as the PCI card,if I remember right,it was something to do with the IRQ on the USB 2.0 card.What if I put that in first,get it set up,then put the USB 2.0 card in after?Maybe that card can assign a different IRQ better then the network card can?So the speed of the hard drives,or the computers wouldn't affect the speed of transferring files between the two machines?Would there be a speed difference between the USB adapter I'm using now,and the PCI version?What if the USB adapter was going through 1.1 instead of 2.0?Thanks Again for all the help!
Tyler

[glc]

I would say that when you reach 25 wireless clients, you would be saturated. Wired and wireless clients are only limited by the number of IP addresses, and you have 253 of those. You can use ANY port to uplink from the Westell, but if it's not E1, you would need to use the uplink port on the switch at the other end. Most switches these days are autosensing, so actually it doesn't matter. Don't even think hubs - think switches. They are cheap enough. Switches are intelligent and reduce data packet collisions. Also, don't even think USB, it's more hassles than it's worth - think PCI 10/100 or wireless nic.

[70JUDGE]

Would this work?What if I had two network cards in the computer upstairs, and had the cable that is already up their go to one of the network cards,and another cable (crossover,or patch?) go to another computer in the other room.Would I just be able to share files,the internet,or nothing?How about a computer with a USB wireless adapter(I know,don't use USB!),and a built in ethernet port,use the USB adapter for that computer,and the ethernet for the other computer.Just curious if either would work!Both situations would be hooked to the Westell 327W using the one cable I have run upstairs,and the one cable to the computer downstairs here the modem is.I just wanted to know my options if I later decide to add another machine upstairs.
Thank You all very much!

Tyler

[glc]

No, I think I've concisely explained what you need to do to expand your network. Expand with uplinked switches. Why are you resisting the idea of a switch so much? They are CHEAP.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833338003

[70JUDGE]

I don't sound like I'm resisting the idea of a switch,do I?I'm open to everything!Some people just take more time,and have more questions then others,is that so bad?I'm just here trying to learn about this stuff just like the rest of are,right?I appreciate everyone's ideas.That,and maybe someone else has a way that might be as good,or even better.Why I asked about the extra network card is I have one,and wanted to know if it would work on someone's elses computer setup,and if I could use that in place of a switch I wouldn't have to buy one,that's all.I had alot more questions,but now I'm getting the feeling that I'm bothering all of you.Thank You all for all the help!


Tyler

[glc]

No, you are not bothering us at all, but you are making something simple into something very complicated. Trying to use a computer with 2 nics to bridge another computer into your network is just not worth the configuration hassle. In your case, it is not even possible because the IP address that WinXP is going to assign to the bridging nic will conflict with the internal IP address of your Westell. You cannot change that IP in XP and remain functional, and I doubt that you can change the Westell's IP and expect it to continue functioning properly. If you have a choice of doing something with hardware or software, always choose hardware, it works better.

[70JUDGE]

I don't have Windows XP,only ME,and 98SE.But I guess if XP won't,then ME,or 98SE probably won't either,huh?Sorry if I complicated things.Have you ever taken something apart that worked perfectly,just to see what makes it work?Well that's me!It might take me awhile to understand it all,but I'm willing to learn!I just figured I would ask these questions before I started experimenting,and blow something up!No sense of both of us doing that,if you already have,and can save someone else from doing it!Somewhere I was reading that USB adapters use CPU power,and PCI adapters don't?So does that mean when I put in the PCI network card,it should transfer files,faster? Does the speed of the machine have anything to do with this too?Also,how does the switch work?By that I mean,on my Westell 327W it has a port for the line in,and E1 through E4 for the outputs.On a switch I only see outputs?So where does the line I have from dowstairs with the internet going up to the Compaq go?Into one of the plugs,just like the other computers would?So the switch is smart enough to know where to get the internet from?Would you happen to know the wireless range of the Westell 327W indoors,and out?Sorry for any trouble!Maybe I should pick up a book on this stuff!
Thanks Again for all the help!
Tyler

[glc]

That makes it even worse. With 98 and ME, use PCI cards, and use an autosensing switch. The cable from the Westell (ANY port in actuality) can plug into ANY port on the switch, and computers can plug into ANY port on the switch. There are no "inputs" or "outputs" on a switch - there are just PORTS. I covered this already. You cannot state a specific range on wireless, you can only try. I've seen it go 500 feet, and I've seen it give up after 30 feet. Borrow a wireless laptop and TRY it. Wired is ALWAYS more reliable, faster, and more stable.

[70JUDGE]

What part did you already cover?Did I already ask about why there was no inputs,or outputs on a switch before?Sorry if I did.You said something about if I didn't use the E1 uplink on mine,I had to on the switch?Is that what the uplink is for,the cable with the internet?I read somewhere that it disables the port next to it when you use the uplink port?What cables do I use for the switch setup?Patch,or crossover?Also,is there any situation where a hub is better then a switch?Just curious!So there is no range that the Westell 327W should be good for?Thank You all very much!

Tyler

[glc]

You can use ANY port to uplink from the Westell, but if it's not E1, you would need to use the uplink port on the switch at the other end. Most switches these days are autosensing, so actually it doesn't matter. Don't even think hubs - think switches. They are cheap enough. Switches are intelligent and reduce data packet collisions.

You won't need a crossover cable for anything as long as the switch is autosensing. Autosensing switches do NOT have a dedicated uplink port.

Bottom line? You already have a cable running upstairs. Unplug it from the computer and plug it into an autosensing switch - ANY port - then plug computers into the switch with standard patch cables, again, using ANY port. This really IS that simple!

[70JUDGE]

I found this link that was very helpful to me,and I thought it might be of interest to everyone on here that has helped me out.I really liked Warren's answers.I hope this isn't against the rules,sorry if it is.Thanks Again for all the help everyone!

Tyler

http://hardware.mcse.ms/showthread.p...0&pagenumber=1

[glc]

That's exactly what I said - plug a switch into your router then plug computers into the switch. I said it in a LOT less words.

[70JUDGE]

There was nothing wrong with your answers.I just liked the part where he explained what the parts did,not just tell him what he needed,that's all.I just didn't really know what the parts did.That was one of my questions I had. Why have a router when a switch would work.Just like why have a hub,when a switch is better.I do have another question if you don't mind.In the Home Network Wizard it asked me how the computers connect to the internet. Which one do I pick for each computer?A connection to another computer that that provides a direct connection to my ISP,or a direct connection to my ISP using the following device?Really neither one sounds right.It doesn't connect to the other computer,or directly to the internet.Is this wizard part of the Internet Connection Sharing?Thanks Again everyone for all the help!

Tyler

[glc]

Choose direct connection to the ISP. The router is considered a direct connection. Yes, if you choose the wrong thing, you will be setting up Internet Connection Sharing, which will not work with your topography.

[70JUDGE]

I got a PCI network card the other day,and guess what?!IT WORKED!Everything seems to be working the way it should be as far as I can tell. Thank You all very much for all the help!Sorry for any trouble that I might have caused.Thanks Again!
Tyler

[gary_hendricks]

Hey hey let's all be friends ok?

[70JUDGE]

I have a few more questions if you all don't mind.With the file sharing,is it possible to see the mail in Outlook Express on the other machines?By that I mean,if I open the mail on one machine,and download it,or what has already been downloaded,can I access that mail on another machine,and see it just like I was actually on that machine?Also I was looking at a wireless PCMCIA card for a laptop to go with the Westell 327W,and wanted to know if there would be any real difference between the cards that Linksys offers?Do I need something to benefit from the speedbooster,rangebooster,SRX,and SRX400,or will it work the same by itself.How good is the WPC54G?Any help is greatly appreciated!Thank You all very much!
Tyler

[glc]

No, you cannot network Outlook Express, it's designed to be strictly standalone. Outlook is even tricky to network without an Exchange server.

No need for a premium card - a standard G card is all the Westell will ever take advantage of.

[70JUDGE]

I got a Linksys WPC54G Version 3 card,and I'm having trouble getting it to work.I noticed on the Linksys website they have 5 versions of this card.What is the difference between them?How can you tell which one you are buying,it is not written on the box?I'm trying to use it with a Westell 327W,and a Toshiba Satellite 220CDS with Windows 98SE,and I'm not having much luck.When I went to install the cd,I got to the point where it asked me to put the card in,after that,it wanted the Windows 98SE cd.Now this is where it gets complicated!I have tried this many ways,with no luck.It says that it can't find the file vip.386.When I dicect it to D:\WiN98 it goes to find the file,then the screen goes blue,and says to put in cd with serial number such,and such,and then something has caused an illegal operation in wizard setup,and it closes out.I tried to skip the file,and all it does is go to the page where it said to plug the adapter in,and when I click next the screen goes away,and nothing happens.I have gotten to the point where it asked me to restart the machine after getting it to read the vip.386 file off the Windows 98SE cd once,but the same blue screen came up after I clicked to restart. Sometimes the blue screen came up even before I put the Windows 98SE cd in when it asked for it,if I remember right.I have tried so many different things!It said the drive might be dirty,but I have installed Windows 98SE without any problems.I do have an Icon on the taskbar that says the adapter is inactive,and I can't get it to activate.I tried clicking on the icon,but it won't let me click on the secure easy setup,or any other things.Is the card too old?Do I need version 5?I also noticed the directions on the Linksys website are not the same as the ones I got with the card.Mine didn't say anything about what mode to choose.Maybe I haven't got that far in the install yet?Any help is greatly appreciated!Thank You very much!

Tyler

[glc]

You either have a dirty/defective CD or CD drive. If the laptop has a factory Windows load, look on the hard drive for the files instead of using the CD - they are *usually* in c:\windows\options\cabs. The adapter is NOT going to work until you have a successful driver install.

[70JUDGE]

When I got the machine I put Windows 98SE on with the cd drive with no problems.That is why I couldn't figure out why it said it was having trouble reading the disc.What does the vip.386 do?I noticed that it is a hidden file.When I direct the insatall to the c:windows\options\cabs,will it still see the file?I did get it to work the other day by turning the computer on,then putting the card in.I got the icon to turn green,but I can't get it to turn green on reboot.Isn't it supose to do that?After the first time,the only way I got it to work was to turn it on with the card in,enter past the windows nework screen,stop the card with the card icon,and plug it back in.Now I can't get it to even do that!I tried to uninstall, and reinstall with no luck. There was one install I did that I got to where it asked me to restart the machine,and when I clicked yes,the blue screen came up.So I'm thinking not everything went on?What does the odyssey client do?I noticed it was in the add,and remove,and now it isn't.Somehow it didn't get installed after an uninstall,and reinstall.Does it need it?Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thank You very much!
Tyler