Cox ISP (and other "ISP Based Anti-spam") Users

[bill_bright]

If Cox Communications is your ISP, or if your ISP automatically processes spam, I urge you to read the following.

Cox's is currently implementing a new anti-spam policy. I urge everyone to contact Cox and tell them it is unacceptable!

It is a step BACK in user convenience. Now users MUST go to their webmail to check for false positives since Cox anti-spam automatically moves spam to a webmail spam folder (or just deletes it without asking) whether the users wants it moved or not. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE! Cox cannot guarantee that only spam is sent to that folder (or automatically deleted) as no anti-spam program is perfect! I have had to send several reports to thisisnotspam@cox.net, 7 since last July, and as recently as 1/23/06. Therefore, We cannot NOT trust Cox's (or anyone else's) ability to ensure with 100% accuracy that a legitimate email will not be tagged as spam and sent to the webmail spam folder.

Previously, when suspected spam was prefaced with ---spam---, it was easy to identify and very easy to set up a filter in the user's email client or spam blocker program to identify and handle it. For those using MailWasher, it was incredibly easy to manage with a simple filter.

Now, because of Cox's new presumptuous policy, we are forced to periodically log into our Cox webmail accounts and check to ensure Cox anti-spam program did not falsely identify legitimate mail, and mis-route it to the spam-folder. I don't want to HAVE to log in to Cox and check my webmail account regularly - do you?

Since it is NOT possible for Cox to guarantee 100% accuracy, not providing some way for users to either disable the spam blocker, or revert to where it remains in the users inbox is JUST PLAIN WRONG! For one, it assumes you are a dummy and you cannot manage your own email. While I appreciate their efforts to block spam, to automatically block any and all "suspected" spam from the user, when 100% accuracy is NOT possible, is just wrong and irresponsible. Do note that even Cox uses the word "suspected".

I have faith in my own spam-blocker (MailWasher Pro), and anti-malware scanners and tools implemented on my system, as well as my own "safe computing practices" to ensure I do not become infected. I do not have faith that Cox anti-spam is absolutely 100% accurate nor do I have faith that it will never miss-identify a legitimate email as spam. The only two options Cox provides in Internet Tools are:

1. Automatically delete incoming junk email. Junk email is removed before it reaches your inbox.
2. Send suspected junk email to your Spam Blocker folder in Webmail. Note: Mail in the Spam Blocker folder is deleted 21 days after receipt.
   
   If you agree that no anti-spam program can ensure 100% accuracy, I ask that you send a complaint to Cox and demand they revert to their old policy immediately, or add the following options:
   
   
3. Disable Cox anti-spam.
4. Preface subject of possible spam with "---spam---" and leave in user inbox for user action.

For those unfamiliar with SpamCop or Bluefrog - these are two spam fighting tools some of us use as part of our work in Internet security. I report spam to these two organizations. If SpamCop verifies reported spam as spam, it adds those senders/domains to a blacklist - many anti-spam programs and other organizations use the SpamCop database to help them identify and fight spam. Bluefrog is a new and unique program that works (and seems to work quite well) at convincing spammers that it is in their best interest to remove your addresses (and the nearly 1/2 million other Bluefrog user's addresses) from the spammer's spam lists - thus preventing you from being sent spam in the first place. With Cox taking preemptive action like this, we are unable to report new spam to these organizations - so in effect, they may actually be a counterproductive force in the fight against spam at the sources of spam!

Even if you feel comfortable with Cox's policy of removing all control from you, and you have total faith that an important or wanted email will never be falsely identified as spam with their new system, they are removing your choice to receive all mail sent to you, and they are removing an important opportunity to thwart the badguys and stop the spam from being sent in the first place. The choice should be yours, not Cox's. Please forward this to your other Cox user contacts and give them the option to decide if they feel the same.

If you do not have Cox and your ISP is automatically deleting spam with no option for you to manage your own spam, then I urge you to contact your ISPs as well.

Thanks

[glc]

I use Earthlink - and I use the equivalent of option #2. However, Earthlink offers the equivalent of option #3 - if Cox does not, then I feel you have a legitimate beef. Have you considered a 3rd party mail service such as Yahoo or Hotmail?

[bill_bright]

Originally Posted by glc I use Earthlink - and I use the equivalent of option #2. However, Earthlink offers the equivalent of option #3 - if Cox does not, then I feel you have a legitimate beef. Have you considered a 3rd party mail service such as Yahoo or Hotmail?

Sure, I have a Yahoo and a gmail account, and a Bigfoot forwarding account - but I have been with Cox for about 7 years, since they first offered broadband here - I get 7 email accounts with the service - the wife and I both use a couple and I use a couple for my little business, and 1 for a honeybucket - I get about 30 - 40 legitimate emails/day so I hate to switch now.

This plan is something they just started up a couple days ago - I hope enough users will complain since they don't give you the option to disable the spam blocker. Option 4 was how their old plan worked - I was happy with that.

BTW, last August, something happened because PC Mech's Tip of the Day for about 5 days running kept getting tagged as spam. Now that this new plan is in place, if they do it again, I won't know immediately - not cool.

[SWTF]

Switch to Gmail. That's all I have to say on the subject.

[bill_bright]

I can do that, but it is not really the point, IMO. The point is a major ISP is making decisions about emails without their customer's consent. In my area, we are not fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose our ISPs - if we desire cable high speed, Cox is it.

[SWTF]

You may not have a choice in ISP, but you don't have to handle your e-mail through them. They're adding anti-spam software as a way of improving their service. They aren't out to get you or any of their other customers. I would bet that somewhere in your service agreement with them there is a stipulation that says that they aren't responsible for dropped packets, lost data, lost e-mail, or anything like that.

As consumer, all you can do is not let their miserable service affect you. Either switch from Cox, and if that isn't feasible, switch e-mail providers.

[bill_bright]

Originally Posted by SWTF You may not have a choice in ISP, but you don't have to handle your e-mail through them. They're adding anti-spam software as a way of improving their service. They aren't out to get you or any of their other customers. I would bet that somewhere in your service agreement with them there is a stipulation that says that they aren't responsible for dropped packets, lost data, lost e-mail, or anything like that. As consumer, all you can do is not let their miserable service affect you. Either switch from Cox, and if that isn't feasible, switch e-mail providers.

Out to get me? I never said or implied anything of the sort.

And sorry SWFT, but you are not correct at all. We are not talking about lost data or lost email either. We are talking about them INTENTIONALLY preventing delivery of mail addressed to me. That is totally different from dropped packets so I think you are totally missing the point. I pay for their service, which includes email. If they gave me a choice, that would be different. But the only options provided is delete, or move off to a webmail folder - either way, the email is not delivered to the customer. And since they cannot guarantee they will never falsely identify legitimate email as spam, not providing the option is just wrong.

Also, that is not all I can do as a consumer. I can stand up for my rights, which is what I am doing. I have registered complaints with them and I have rallied many other users to complain too. And I now have an email from them saying,

since we have been receiving more customer complaints about the Spam blocker feature this issue is going to be reported to the proper department

Sorry, SWFT, but you should not just let big business run roughshod over you. You have rights - stand up for them.

[EzyStvy]

Comcast has been doing this for years and I've never had a problem.

AOL for example has had some major issues. If a member reports an email as spam by accident, the sender gets blacklisted...

[bill_bright]

Originally Posted by EzyStvy Comcast has been doing this for years and I've never had a problem. AOL for example has had some major issues. If a member reports an email as spam by accident, the sender gets blacklisted...

This is a common problem - SpamCop, for example, will blacklist them too (I think they need more than one report though), but only for 24 hours initially. Then, if no other reports, it will fall off the BL. That works.

You say that Comcast has been doing this for years with no problems, but how do you know? If you can't check what they tagged and deleted, then you would have no way of knowing a false positive (FP) was deleted. Sure, if it was a friend or family email, you might know if they called you up complaining that you have not responded - but what if it was a newletters you wanted? Or some other notification you needed?

As I said above, PCMech's Tip of the Day was blacklisted by my ISP (Cox). If it was just deleted or moved to some obscure webmail folder, I would have just assumed they were not sent. Fortunately, under Cox's old Spam Blocker, it added "---spam---" to the subject/Title and stayed in my inbox, so I spotted it immediately and reported the FP - I had to do it 5 days in a row to get the PCMech off their blacklist.

[SWTF]

SpamCop runs a point system. When the mail exceeds the set distinctions for points, it's flagged as spam. Different things related to the mail all have different point values, and their total sum is what matters.

I think you're making a huge deal out of something with an easy remedy, and on top of that, you're complaining about it to the wrong people. If you don't like the fact that you're paying money to someone providing unsatisfactory service, then stop paying them the money.

You think that your rights as a consumer extend to dictating how the service is provided to you. They don't. You have the right to receive the agreed upon services in the agreed upon fashion, and I'll be willing to bet money that this management of e-mail is in your service contract. If you have a problem with it, you shouldn't have agreed to it and you shouldn't keep paying for it.

Your consumer rights allow you to switch to a different service if you are dissatisfied with what you are receiving.

[bill_bright]

I am complaining about it here simply to inform others that their ISP, if Cox, may be blocking legitimate mail sent to them. I would call that important. If it does not concern you, then you certainly have the right to ignore this thread.

As far as being an easy remedy, then again, that is incorrect. If this were a simple home address for an occasional email from a friend, then yes. But many people, including myself, run a business out of their homes - changing email addresses is not just a simple issue of telling Sis to use that address address instead.

As far as stop paying money, then again, you are not looking at the big picture - my ISP is not only my email provider, they are my ISP - which I need for my personal business as well as my company business.

My contract says they will provide 7 email addresses and I have X megabytes of storage. It does not say they will screen my email and block what they "SUSPECT" might be spam and that they will do it without informing me they blocked it.

They also block emails that contain viruses - but in those cases, I get a notice saying they blocked an email from whathisname because it had a virus - I am okay with that.

[glc]

Look guys - this thread is starting to get confrontational. We must keep things respectful here, this is not a place where advanced users debate nitpicky points, it's a place for users to get help. Review the forum rules, please.

- Admin -

[bill_bright]

Sorry (again! ) There was never any intention of (nor was I expecting) this being something to debate about - it was only to inform folks of what is happening so they can take whatever action they deem fit.

[bill_bright]

Just to give a simple example of the problem - today I decided to look in the spam folder to see what Cox moved into it. There were 182 emails. Scanning through page after page (they only list a measly 10 per page and you can't change that setting either ), I got to the 5th page and there was an email from news@zonealarm.zonelabs.com - the makers of ZoneAlarm! I looked around, and there is no option to report it to Cox as a false positive so they can remove it from the blacklist. Sure, I can move it back to the webmail inbox, then pull it down with my email client, but that is just wrong.

So I called Cox. I am happy to say I was talking to a rep within 1 minute! He reported they have been getting a lot of reports of people unhappy about the service, so that is good - but I note that is only for the Omaha center and he does not know about the other call centers. I urge Cox HSI users to report to your local call centers that you are unhappy that Cox assumes its users are too dumb to manage our own mail, that they have implemented a spam blocker that treats legitimate emails as spam, that it prevents emails from being delivered to the user's inbox, there is no option to disable the service, and it forces folks to use Cox webmail, whether they want to or not.

For those that feel, "What's the fuss? Just use GMail!" My response is that getting ALL email addressed to me is a service I pay for as part of my ISP package. I guess I could equate it to buying a brand new car and the MP3 input for the premium sound system you paid extra for does not work. Would you put up with that because you can still hear your tunes through the CD player?

[Mister Gin]

Came across this thread while doing a Yahoo search on how to disable the Cox Spam Blocker. I want Cox to add a disable option now. I want to manage my own emails outside of logging onto webmail. In fact I have never used webmail prior to this. Thunderbird has been doing a good job of catching and moving the junk emails so why do I need Cox to manage this for me. I also agree that going through their spam folder downright sucks. Again it's easier for me in Thunderbird to see if something was accidentally moved to junk.

Mr G

[bill_bright]

Hey Mr G - I do hope you called your local Cox call center to report your concerns - the more of us that complain, the better our chances of getting this resolved.

I did receive this just today from Cox support:

Dear Bill,

Thank you for your e-mail. I understand that you are having issues with our new "Spam Blocker" option.

We have reviewed the best practices in the industry for handling spam and found that implementing a Spam folder option was preferred to simply marking messages as Spam in a customers inbox. This will allow for better management of your inbox while still allowing you to review suspected junk mail. While we feel that the newer version of WebMail is a vast improvement over the original, we understand your concerns and appreciate your feedback.

As with any new product, we value your input. While I can not guarantee you any change at this time, I have made your concern known to the appropriate people.
We are working to get all the old features and the new one combine and we really apologize for any inconvenience that cause you.

I understand your frustration and would be upset in your position as well, but We are working to get all the old features and the new one combine and we really apologize for any inconvenience that cause you.

Also I have already forwarded a copy of this chat , so they take the appropriate measures to straighten this out.

So maybe we will see some results, I don't know. So far I have found 3 false positives in the Spam folder - one in particular, I would not have been pleased to have missed.

[bill_bright]

Success! After only (?) 6 weeks of complaining about false positives being moved out of reach of PC based email clients, Cox Communications has rolled back their poorly devised and implemented spam blocker to the old system and now provide a 3rd option for email "THEY" think is spam. We are now able to once again have the system prepend the subject of the suspected spam with --Spam-- and leaving it in our inboxes. This does 5 things:

1. Prevents false positives from being moved out of the inbox
2. Allows all spam filters to key in on the term --Spam--
3. Allows server based spamblockers such as MailWasher to access and process all mail
4. Eliminates the need for users to access their webmail accounts daily to check for FPs
5. Keeps me from calling tech support 2 - 3 times a week with complaints about yet another FP - thus helping to keep my BP in check!

Note if Cox had implemented a spam filter that never had a false positive, I would never have complained. But I had 11 total in the last 5 weeks - from such sites a ZoneLabs, PC Mech, Capitol One (yes I actually have a credit card from them), PC World, and even one from postmaster@cox.net - my own ISP! Because of those FPs which were dumped into a special spam folder, not accessible by normal email clients, users were forced to log into their webmail accounts to check the spam folder - noting that even that mail would automatically be purged after 21 days, whether you had auto-delete selected or not.

I don't mind Cox or any ISP fighting malware - but be smart about it - not stupid.