IP addresses?

[Smoke24]

I am planning on setting up a small network of three computers; my main one, my wife one and any one I happen to be working on at any time. I have a 5 port Hawking hub with 1 uplink, plenty of cat 5 cables and several network cards of which only two are the same brand (Samsung SC1200A-TX), the others are two different Realteks ( an RTL8029 and an 8139), a 3Com 3C905TX and a Kingston KNE40T. Is it possible to mix the brands of cards and if so which are the better to use? Also what software will I need to allow them to network and share my cable internet connection? I have tried to read some on this subject but it mostly sounds like greek to me. Guess I could have bought a home networking package but I somehow accumulated all this other stuff and would like to use it if possible an save some bucks. Any ideas?
I meant to ask how to find out what IP address my current card is using as my cable will only reconize it and can I assign the same IP to other cards as they should never be online at the same time.
I also read something about using an older computer as a firewall and to make the main internet connection. How does this work?

[Edited by Smoke24 on 02-24-2001 at 10:53 PM]

[glc]

The 3Com is the best card out of the bunch - the Kingston and the 2 Realteks are OK - but I dunno about the Samsung. You can mix and match, no problem.

Go spend $100 on a single port Linksys cable/DSL router - that will share the cable and give you a firewall too. Plug the cable modem into the router and then plug the router into the uplink port on the hub. Then just plug each computer into the hub and follow the Linksys instructions for configuring TCP/IP. You can use an old computer with 2 network cards for a gateway, but this would require Linux.

Look at the TCP/IP properties of your current network card (that the cable modem is plugged into) and write down the settings - you then just have to enter them into the router. It's probably set to use DHCP which makes it simple. If the cable modem is looking for a specific MAC address for the network card, the router can be programmed to show that to the cable modem. You can get the MAC address of the card from running winipcfg, select the network card, and click More Info.

[Smoke24]

Thanks glc,
I'll look for one of those routers and see if I can figure out how to hook it all up. I don't know what Knology, my cable company, did but they switched my modem out from a Hybrid to a 3Com. The Hybrid would let me use any net card and find it and assign it an IP address but the 3Com will only recognize the card that was in use at the time they changed the modem. Other cards won't work anymore. Their card is the Kingston but I had the Realtek 8029 installed when they made the switch. I was wanting to fool their new modem into letting me use any of my cards again 'cause as you know, I tinker with different computers a lot.
Thanks too for your help with my kid, Rooster's, problems. I think you and Hal got him going now. Like I told him, I learn some stuff every visit to this site. I don't know much but will share my limited experiences with others. Maybe they'll help sometimes?

[glc]

Hmmm - then you probably do need the router - and program it to the MAC address of the NIC that the cable box is hooked to now. Some cable operators do key the box to the MAC to know who you are when you connect. The Linksys is a pretty easy configuration - just put the internal IP address of the router into your browser and there it is - administration pages.

[Smoke24]

I have just figured out how to make other network cards use that same IP address. If I can do this with the three that I will need will I still need the router or can I just run all three from the hub? The 3Com modem uses a straight cable with only four wires that goes to the net card, will I need to use this type of cable from the hub to the net cards or will cat 5 work?

[glc]

You should still use the router because once you hook up all 3 machines on the network you can't have all 3 using the same IP address. Cat 5 should work. Your other option is to buy 2 more IP addresses from the cable provider.

[Smoke24]

One last question, I see that Linksys has two at lower end price that I could buy. One is a single port, the BEFSR11, the other is a four port, the BEFSR41. What would be the advantage of buying the four port over the single? The price difference at Egghead is only $10 due to a $30 rebate on the four port. This is about as cheap as I have found them anywhere, $89.95 for the single and $99.95 after rebate for the four port.

[glc]

The single port model is for people that already have a hub. The 4 port model has a 4 port networking 10/100 switch hub built in. If you get the 4 port, you can pull your hub and use it for something else, or sell it.

[WJWheels]

Check this out Smoke... http://pcmech.efront.s4r.com/forum/s...?threadid=9403 ..might as well keep it in the family. The linksys router will automatically set all your ip addresses. I'm using the single port with an 8 port switch. You can also link your hub to the router for expansion - more pc's, printers, print servers, etc.

[Smoke24]

Thanks for the info glc. I checked out the link Wheels but I don't have any of the trading material that Driver is looking for. I will likely buy the four port model from Egghead for $130 and get the $30 rebate on it. Don't think I'll find it cheaper. Locally best price I found was $150 at the Office Depot and Office Max, the computer stores wanted $199 or more.

[Smoke24]

I ordered the four port model from Egghead for $130 and should get a $30 rebate which will make it cost only $10 more than the single port. I figured the extra $10 spent may be worth it at some point. Thanks for all the help and advice guys.

[WJWheels]

Yep.. that's a good move Smoke. The switched ports built into the router will be faster than your old hub. Of course you may not have quite as many blinking lights , and that's what we're all measured on at the "end of the day"!!

I went with the single port as it had the rebate when I bought it ($89.95 - $10 rebate at Buy.com). Also I needed 6 ports to add 4 pc's, a modem, and a print server. I linked a separate switch to the modem to accomplish this.

[Smoke24]

Yea WJ, I will only be running 3 computers most of the time but can I use the other port to share my printers? I use two that are on a manual switch. One is a little Epson and the other a big multifunction HP or can I just set up to allow printer sharing through Windows? I could just hook one to each of my two permanent machines.

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by Smoke24 Yea WJ, I will only be running 3 computers most of the time but can I use the other port to share my printers

If you add a print server you can. The print server attaches to the switch/hub with cat5. The printers plug into the print server using (in my case) parallel cables. Advantage is speed and the "sharing" pc doesn't have to be on to use the printer(s). Possibly your *all-in-one already has the capability to hook right to the network. Many do.

[Smoke24]

I'll check and see about the HP. It may not matter as my main computer runs normally all the time. Thanks for all your help WJ, I'm still learning.

[glc]

Linksys just happens to make a 3 parallel port 10/100 print server that works real nice. However, you may not be able to use the fax from PC and scanning functions of the HP if you do this. It's real easy to just hook a printer to a workstation and share it across the network though. Again, you probably won't be able to share anything except the printer function of the HP, but at least you will have full functionality on the workstation it's connected to.

[Edited by glc on 03-05-2001 at 11:04 AM]

[Smoke24]

Thanks glc, but I'll try the broadband router first then maybe later a print server. It may not matter so much since my computers usually run all the time unless I decide to tinker with one, then I will usually replace it with a backup while I have it torn apart as I have enough parts to have 5 or 6 built up at any one time.

[BambiX]

u have to look at this,
http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/...503199,00.html

[Smoke24]

I don't see the connection to what I'm doing as I am not running Linux or a 486? I have read some of theirs and others articles on networking and cable shareing though.

[BambiX]

ok you have to have cable come in somewhere.
if u use your own pc as the gateway you might loose some performance but it's cheap.
better option. create a lan.
hook all your pc's up to a hub.
see if u can get some old crap pc somewhere.
has to be at least a 486 but u can use an old pentium too.
you take out the hard disk.
put in two nic's
and follow the instructions in the article in my upper post.

the idea is creating a router/firewall the fact that it uses the linux kernel shouldn't worry you.
that's just the disk.
that's the beauty of the idea, the pc/router/firewall boots with a narrow linux kernel and 2 nic drivers(disk is write protect so noone can change anything).
u hook that up to the hub. configure the pc's to get their internet connection from the ip adress of your linux router
and u have your self a firewalled internet connection for your entire network.

you can always share a connection but remember all the traffic the other pc's have goes trough the system your working on and slows you down.
if your set on sharing i advise you to check out www.winroute.com
it's the best connection sharing program on the market.



[Edited by BambiX on 03-08-2001 at 06:28 PM]

[glc]

That's fine - but today it's easier just to buy a router - they are cheap enough and easy to configure - and about the size of a paperback book. There is no sharing issue here either, the router does the work and is your DHCP server and your NAT and firewall. Sure - if you have an old PC and a couple nics kicking around with the space to set it up - and feel like playing with Linux - its a good solution.

[Smoke24]

I just saw that it was about a 486 running Linux. I didn't get into reading it. I already have the router as it came from Egghead on Tuesday and I already sent off for my $30 rebate on it. It only took about 3 days to get it as they shipped from next door in Georgia. Took glc's advice to go ahead and do it right. Now if only the cable co. "tech" hadn't screwed up my main machine I'd be in business.

[BambiX]

It's just an option m8,
if u can buy one cheap there is no sense in going through making one urself.
i guess my heart just starts beating faster when i build things myself and i guess i somehow expect people to have the same enthousiasm.

[Smoke24]

Hey Bambi,
It's not so much an Enthusiasm issue as it is that sometimes things not understood are better left alone. I have several computers and a copy of Linux but I can't grasp the Linux concept, lord knows I would love to just be able to ditch Windoze. I can't understand why Windoze and other software can't be made to work without problems. Seems that some genious programmer would be able to either fix it or write an add on program to correct it's faults. The Windoze idea is simple enough but you seem to always run into problems with it. I guess that Gates sold the idea but has failed to ever deliver the goods. Then again if he sold us a perfect product he would have nothing more to sell us as no one would have reason to change again.

[BambiX]

smoke
I wouldn't say it's best left alone, i think broadening your horizon is important, but that's beside the point.
The Linux router project isn't something u need a lot of linux experience for, it's not like you have to use linux as your operating system, the router just uses a small piece of the linux kernel to be able to boot from a disk just like u would use command.com.
So you're not using a full installation of linux but just a linux-bootdisk.
The article is very clear on how to do everything and takes the user through the process step by step and trust me everybody with a little common sense can do this.
In fact i don't know "the first thing" about linux and i'm able to do this.

now to clear one thing up every operating system has errors and the avoidance of errors is not a good reason to kick m$ and start using linux.
Bugs are something u'll have to learn to deal with cause every os has them. the big difference is in the open source.
Wich means that linux is free for everyone to develop.
So let's say there's a bug in a w2k. now before ms starts making a patch they have to acknowledge the fact that there is an bug in the source.
then the conference about how to act then some programmers get assigned to make a patch for it. Once those guys finish the patch they have to test the **** out of it before they'll supply it to the consumers.
When there is a bug found in linux anybody who wants to can write a patch.
wich usually means the patch will be available the next day sometimes even sooner.

a lot of people hate Microsoft for burdening the world with windows,
well let's get one thing straight.
the 9x os's are made for people with not enough know-how to install an os like u should. So basically everything is automated wich does result in a lot of errors.
the windows nt based os's are a completely different story, they can and should be setup step by step by someone who know's exactly what he's doing.
It's my belief that when installed properly windows nt is one hell of a good os.
(with windows nt i mean every nt based os i've ever encountered so nt 3.51, 4.0, 2k)
the thing that goes wrong with most instalations is that people install an os and start installing/deinstalling all kinds of crap.
then their registry gets poluted and windows start causing very anoying errors.
on the networking side people create a network and from then on start implementing 1 thing after the other.
often new applications are implemented that are too heavy for the current network but upgrading would cost way too much so the users get irritated that everything is slow and a ****load of error reports are submitted.
and all of a sudden everybody blames poor old bill gates.

I'm sorry if all of this seems a bit strong but i've been working in it-service for a long time and this has been bothering me for some time now, so i just let my fingers do the talking if you know what i mean.
feels great to have this off my chest.
so no pun intended=)

greetz BambiX

[Smoke24]

I agree with most of what you said but I think that even within Microsoft, which has some of the best programmers in the world, it should be more urgent to fix problems and with all that talent and kind of a lock on that market they should be more apt to get it right before release. These companies are in too big of a hurry to get their hand in our pockets sometimes and are not accountable fo selling a defective product. I'll defend M$ and Gates right to do whatever they want with their OS and other software and think it is a stab in the back of the free enterprise system for this government DOJ crap that is wasting our tax dollars. Obviously we know that there are other OS's that we could choose to use and are not forced into use of any of M$'s software. They should spend that much energy and money in fixing some of our other problems and leave M$ alone. If the competition is proven better they will win some of that business and if not they'll go tits up, as it should be.

[BambiX]

Personally i think Linux will always be sort of a novelty os amung the powerusers and a fine alternative for dedicated servers.
But on the workstation they will never be able to grab the market.
As long as everybody is tought how to operate microsoft systems at school and work there is no reason for the big companies to start using linux as workstation software wich is basically m$'s grip on the market.
Linux and open source does however have a positive effect on the way bugs and known problems are treated.
Because now the consumer has an argument towards m$ by simply comparing the 2.
Wich is why the big companies are really working on speeding up their processes.
And i think they are doing a good job.

The m$ patch speed is really understandable i.m.h.o
Determining the problem isn't what takes up a lot of time.
Neither does writing the patch.
Most time is consumed in determining who's problem it is.
A lot of problems are started by manufacturers drivers but the problem can be solved by either of them.
So who should fix it?
There is a very big legal grey area there.
This is a very debatable subject wich is very sensitive to m$ because patching is expensive.
So it's not our pocket they got their hands on it's their own pocket that needs protecting.
U can imagine the red tape and often i'm still surprised at the speed they deliver their patches and asume responsibility.

While with linux, someone signals a bug and at the same time half the linux developers start making patches and posting them online, no red tape just action and reaction and reaction and reaction.
That's the beauty of open source software, it's as dynamic as it's amount of active developers.


The M$ lawsuit.
I admire M$ for their strategic marketing.
Although i have to agree that integrating explorer into windows was a sneaky thing to do you have to admire the brilliance of the strategy.
I'm just glad they used explorer instead of office =)

greetz BambiX