Protestors Shut The F Up!

[eje2001]

Improper treatment of POW's & 2 chemical facilities SO FAR...

[TimPoet]

It is an expression of futility to protest the war, esp. en masse, at this point in the game. What's the point? It's too late to stop it and there is no way that protest can soon shorten the war. Victory is the only way to shorten this war.

[doctorgonzo]

I have not actively engaged in any protests yet, but the views of eje2001 and people like him make me want to do so more and more.

Tim is right: victory will be the only thing that shortens the war, and everybody wants this to be done as quickly as possible. But anti-war protesters, by and large, are not protesting troops. They are protesting how we got to this point, and that remains as relevant now as it was before.

When the U.S. wins this war (and there is no doubt of that), the game is not over, so to speak. The world won't magically be a better place. There will still be a lot of work to be done, and I am very concerned about what is going to happen. The purpose of this war, or any war, is to ensure that a new war will not need to be fought.

This is still America, and dissent during war is a part of it. It has been that way for the entire history of this country. I am reminded of this story:

"A young Illinois congressman introduces a censure measure in the House of Representatives while the war is still in progress, arguing that the president's justification for war is 'from beginning to end the sheerest deception.' The president, this young congressman argues, would have 'gone further with his proof if it had not been for the small matter that the truth would not permit him.' Challenging the commander-in-chief directly, the resolution continues: 'Let him answer fully, fairly and candidly. Let him answer with facts and not with arguments ... Let him attempt no evasion, no equivocation.'"

The War? The Mexican-American War. The congressman? Abraham Lincoln.

[Hot Rod]

It is one of the great things about America....freedom of speech. You can come out and voice your opinion. You have to take the good with the bad....the good thing is that you have freedom of speech but you have to realize that with that, sometimes you'll hear things you don't particularly like.

To squelch the protests would be leaning towards the ideas of the countries that we have fought.

As long as they don't hurt other people or themselves and they do nothing that is against the law, let them protest. Yes, you have a right to voice your displeasure with their protests. That is your freedom.

Just remember, that the freedom they are excercising now, may help you in the future when you see something that is wrong.

The same freedom of speech that allowed people to criticize Clinton is allowing people to criticize Bush. It's all part of America. Take it or leave it.

[eje2001]

Oh make no mistake about it I know they have the right to protest just like I do and I do. I have a sign I made that says "shut the f up!". This sits in my car and on my way to work, store, or whatever and if I see protestors I hold this sign up against the window, nothing more( I don't wast peoples times by holding up traffic or whatever other tactics they see fit). By the way do these people have jobs (mid day mid week protestors, ***) The problem I have is most of the protestors don't even know why this or even the last mid-east war took place. Seem it's just the next "thing" they can protest... for some atleast and you can't deny that.

[sdkfz]

I may be showing my age here (42) but...... We need the protestors to voice opposition to war lest we undertake to use it too frequently or too easily. They may be a little too vociferous and destructive in making their statments (which makes for an interesting situation eh?) but the underlying statement is true.

My view:

War is a terrible thing.
War can be a necessary thing.

It is those two statements that make diplomacy something that should work every time (Thus avoiding the second statement), just that it can not when people do not believe, or remember, one or both of those two statements.

I do not want to make any parallels to history or remarks about one country over another other than there is always a bully in the school yard, just be careful that when you become the savior of the schoolyard that you do not become the bully yourself.

[shazam]

If two people agree on everything you do not need one of them

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by eje2001 Oh make no mistake about it I know they have the right to protest just like I do and I do. I have a sign I made that says "shut the f up!".

So, people have a right to protest, and you show this by telling them to "shut the f up."

What is the logic behind that?

[eje2001]

Yup protesting the protestors, and it only took 5 seconds to make the sign. Will it stop the protesting... no but it pisses them off.

And protesting a war that has already begun is logical?

[Strider]

While I disagree with the war and I respect other people's opinions, I for one will not protest the war. It is too late for that and for me protesting the war is in a way a slap in the face for our troops in Iraq. Last Friday I saw a woman from the USA on TV, she said "This war is unjust and we're not going to have it". I'm sure she meant to say "not going to stand for it", but the way she said it I was rolling on the ground of laughter. I thought for a second - a little to late for that.

My biggest problem with this war is President Bush doesn't seem to have a clear cut objective. I know it is to get rid of Saddam, and Weapons of Mass Destruction but who's to say the person who takes power in Iraq is going to be any better than Saddam or will be able to hold onto the position? What happens if the United States doesn't find any weapons of mass destruction? Another mistake I feel President Bush made was labeling Iraq, Iran and North Korea as "Axis of Evil", except for Iraq, the other two countries are of concern to me. I feel either one of these countries in a very short period of time will have nuclear weapons and with the capability of delivering the warhead with an ICBM (especially North Korea). This kind of tactic (War) will not work for the threat of a Nuclear War would be too great. Just my .02 cents.

[Paul Victorey]

Sure, it makes sense to protest a war after it begins. Our government exists to serve the people, not the other way around, and wars, once started, can still be ended. How long would we have stayed in Vietnam had the public supported it?

[Xayd]

Originally posted by eje2001 Improper treatment of POW's & 2 chemical facilities SO FAR...

'Huge' Suspected Chemical Weapons Plant Found in Iraq.

U.S. Central Command, which oversees the war in Iraq, said in a statement that it was premature to call the Najaf site a chemical weapons factory.

If you're gonna quote "fact", provide "source", otherwise your "facts" will be considered "lies" .

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by eje2001 Yup protesting the protestors, and it only took 5 seconds to make the sign. Will it stop the protesting... no but it pisses them off. And protesting a war that has already begun is logical?

Of course it is logical. What is illogical is to believe, that in a democracy, once the government has made a decision the people have to shut up and live with it. I'm sorry, but the President, Congress, the Pentagon, or the media do not unilaterally decide what is "right" and then expect the rest of the world to fall in line. If you think the war is wrong the day before the bombs drop, it is no less wrong the day after.

It's nice that you get enjoyment from your little sign, but don't you think this country needs more thoughtful debate and less sophomoric slogans? There is more than enough simplistic yelling on both sides to go around as it is. Adding to it doesn't accomplish anything.

[glc]

It's every much his right to show that sign as it is yours to protest in the streets.

[doctorgonzo]

Originally posted by glc It's every much his right to show that sign as it is yours to protest in the streets.

I don't disagree with that one bit. I just don't think it accomplishes much, other than to puff up both sides. Free speech is more about freedom of debate than the freedom to parrot simplistic phrases. But I am well aware of the fact that the latter is seen far more.

[Strider]

Originally posted by Paul Victorey Sure, it makes sense to protest a war after it begins. Our government exists to serve the people, not the other way around, and wars, once started, can still be ended. How long would we have stayed in Vietnam had the public supported it?

I for one agree that it was right to protest the War in Vietnam, but the way we went about doing it was wrong. As soon as the U.S pulled out of Vietnam it seemed the general public forgot about the Vietnam Veterans for 10-15 years, until the Vets spoke out, Movies were made about the war, and news reported about Vietnam. Ok protest the War in Iraq, but don't forgot those who served for that would repeating the past.

The simpliest way to protest the war is not marching up and down the street with a sign, it is writting your Congressmen, Senator or even the President an letting them know where you stand on the war. I remember last weekend watching the news, I believe it was San Fransico were it happen, as I was watching they reported that a riot broke out over the war. Hogwash, it looked to me like a bunch of gang bangers taken advantage of the war and ripping off or vandalizing a vechile. As I recall from History Class, that the media when covering a large crowd has a way of sensualizing a riot by showing only a few causing the problem and/or even inciting the people to riot. Which is my reason for not protesting in this manner, is it counter-productive for it protrays a large gathering of people in a bad way, whereas, the majority of the people behave themselves were only a handful ruin it for them.

[Nuclear Krusader]

Gotta hate also those who spam my web addy with protesting messages and Powerpoint presentations.

[TimPoet]

Ah, man, that ain't right, Nuke. I can't believe Mech people did that. They should debate with respect or just keep their mouth shut. Was it deliberate spam or just a bunch of responders (I don't mean the PowerPoint stuff)?

[Xayd]

Yeah I'll give ya that, spammers = worse than warmongers .

[Nuclear Krusader]

Tim, nobody from this place did it. Sorry if my post gave that impression.

Those spams are from ppl I don't even know. You know, the typical "champions of the poor-America bashers" guys that seem to have too much time on their hands.

[AlwaysUp]

Paul Victory, buddy....I couldn't resist...lol

Your comment:
"Sure, it makes sense to protest a war after it begins. Our government exists to serve the people, not the other way around, and wars, once started, can still be ended. How long would we have stayed in Vietnam had the public supported it?"

We are under two weeks into this war and poles range from 70 to 75% of the country supports the war. These numbers won't last given a great span of time or horrific casualties, but as a Vietnam Vet I can tell you I was none too happy with the folks back home. They treated us like **** when we got home. Without a doubt the most shameful display of a hippy, drug induced hysteria I ever witnessed. I won't defend that war because I think most of America realizes that there was a bigger issue than that little part of Southeast Asia in play. But I emphatically will not defend the behavior of the protests of the students and antiwar activists either.

[morriswindgate]

I think we need to get this thread back to a more civil tone, so here goes.
I only built with AMD cpus because the are faster and cheaper than INtel. I also use VIA based boards since INtel boards are for lamers who don't know any better. I also thionk sound blasters are over-priced pieces of junk that are more hype than performance.

[TimPoet]

LOL

[no_fat_chicks]

VIA suck...LOL

[Zred1]

Thank God we live in a country where the majority rules. I love the Freedom to speak my mind and in a perfect world there would be no war. All people would be able to rationalize and come to agreement and treat others with respect. Unfortunately the world is not perfect and Evil people need to be dealt with. More Iraqi people have died by Saddam's hand while we tried to reason with him that in either war to date. Sometimes war is a NECESSARY EVIL. GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!!