And the award goes to....

[jackjones]

Congratulations Mr tank commander you have been awarded the award for most stupid shot in the history of Operation Iraqi Freedom( you just have to love that name). Why don’t you just put another round in the only building in Baghdad where the foreign press lives. “But I was taking fire from the building”. Sure you were and I’m Santa.

[avx]

Were you there? Did you see video of him NOT recieving fire from that building? Have you ever been in a tank? Have you ever had to make a decision while you were under live fire from an enemy on a battle field?

That *SOLDIER* if over their putting his life on the line fighting for his country...Nobody is perfect and everyone is entitled to make mistakes. So how about you give the guy a break...?

[jackjones]

If you make a mistake you should admit it. Not make up some lame excuse which 50 reporters in the building and 2 video recordings of the incident clearly show and report as being false.


"That *SOLDIER* if over their putting his life on the line fighting for his country"

I must have misunderstood something. I thought he was fighting for the freedom of the Iraqi people.

[avx]

I believe he did admit it, and he might end up paying for it with his career in the military, but you lable him the stupidest man in the war because he made a bad call...

I think that stupidest man in the war title should go to Saddam...He would rather have his country torn to shreds and put his people through an unnecessarily prolonged war, just so he can hold on to his little throne of power...

[jackjones]

"I think that stupidest man in the war title should go to Saddam...He would rather have his country torn to shreds and put his people through an unnecessarily prolonged war, just so he can hold on to his little throne of power..."

I can only agree that he isn't to bright and neither does he care about the iraqi people.

[Byte 2.0]

Most of the World New Organizations forget they are not immune to Friendy or Enemy fire. They pretend to be all netural and run all over the country, staying in building near military targets.

Well I have news for them, when you are on the Battlefield, anything and everything can happen. If yo upostion yourself in any area where there is heavy intense fighting, don't expect to never be in the cross fire.

[jackjones]

Yes, there will always be collateral damage but stating the tank was taking fire from the building is just to much.

[avx]

Might want to read this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...imi/index.html

I dont know about you, but from reading it...It doesnt exactly sound like 50 journalist saw this specific tank hit the building, from what I can tell everyone is still unclear. Also there is a possibility that there were photographers on the roof...I dont know about you, but from a couple of hundred yards away...what do photographers look like staying low and taking pictures with thier cameras?? He was under fire, probably saw the cameramen and thought they were snipers, and did what he thought was right...whos to say there wernt any snipers??? Saddams army has already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will go to any lengths to kill a few american soldiers...even if it means hiding amoungst innocent civilians...

[avx]

Originally posted by jackjones Yes, there will always be collateral damage but stating the tank was taking fire from the building is just to much.

Its too much to believe that someone with a gun can check into a hotel???

[Nuclear Krusader]

The way I see it: the soldier made a mistake. Yet it's better to be safe than sorry. When under fire you ain't gonna tell the enemy: "hey, can you use tracer bullets to help me see where the fire is exactly coming from so I can aim properly?"

And for his excuse: he may well be afraid of all the world bashing him for his mistake so he tried to justify himself. Of course when you are nervous you come up with not so good excuses. Been there, done dat.

I agree with avx, the soldier deserves no bashing.

[jackjones]

CNN, isn't that the news channel that fired a reporter for saying negative things about the involvement of America in Operation Iraqi Freedom? Way to go free press.

There were no shots fired from the building and you don't open fire on a target you know is full of foreign reporters.

[ZANEY123]

unfortunaly nobody here is over there, and like avx said where you there? and like byte said when it is war anything goes if. he thought he was being fired on and if his orders state he can fire at will on targets that fire at him,, BOOM that is all that is needed to be said.

no one will ever know the real story behind this or any part of the war for that matter.

i feel for the reporters but they know what they are getting into

[jackjones]

"Its too much to believe that someone with a gun can check into a hotel???"

Plz, 50 reporters and no one hears anything? That's a new thing.

[ZANEY123]

Originally posted by jackjones There were no shots fired from the building

give it up.. we dont know that only the soldier knows that..

[jackjones]

What about listening to a couple of non American media stations.

[ZANEY123]

will do. but whatever media source every report is different. so we could go back and forth all day.

well leave it at that,

if he did not get fired on shame on him for firing on that building
if he did get fired then good for him.

zaney123

[Nuclear Krusader]

He's alive now that is all that matters.

[avx]

Originally posted by jackjones Plz, 50 reporters and no one hears anything? That's a new thing.

Its called a 'Silencer' - I agree with zaney...We could argue all day, lets just agree that you have your opinion, and I have mine, and I respect your opinion, and would hope that you respect mine. But please, dont bash a soldier who is just doing his job.

[jackjones]

How much damage does a silenced weapon do at at long range? Not much. And how would he know where it was comming from if it was silenced. Nevertheless, I ofcourse respect your opinion.

[jackjones]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...638940,00.html

[drisley]

I wonder how long the leftists are going to bash this one around with their noses.

Come on, man. It is a war zone. Mistakes happen in the midst of such confusion. Besides, if we're to believe the Iraqi mis-information minister, there are no US forces in Baghdad.

Heheh....that one cracks me up. You can hear gunfire in the streets when he said it, too.

[aym]

I've heard a BBC reporter who lives in the same hotel today, he said that the tank stopped on the bridge, and there was no fire heard for 20 minutes or so, then the tank aimed at the building and fired.
I agree with jackjones, I doubt that a silenced weapon can do any damage to a tank from that range.

Originally posted by Nuclear Krusader He's alive now that is all that matters.

And a reuters reporter was killed, several were injured.

[jackjones]

Originally posted by drisley I wonder how long the leftists are going to bash this one around with their noses. Come on, man. It is a war zone. Mistakes happen in the midst of such confusion. Besides, if we're to believe the Iraqi mis-information minister, there are no US forces in Baghdad. Heheh....that one cracks me up. You can hear gunfire in the streets when he said it, too.

Firstly, I'm neither a leftist nor am I a rightist. Secondly, yes mistakes happen. So why make up stories about it? Moreover, what does this have to do with the Iraqi information minister?
Nothing what so ever.

[Tiretool]

How can you assume that there wasn't sniper fire coming from a hotel window or rooftop? Maybe there was a nook or cranny somewhere on that building which housed an Iraqi soldier shooting at that tank... I'll tell you one thing. If I'm that tank driver, gunner, passenger on said tank, whatever... I'm shooting back and asking questions later. War is hell, but I'm not losing my life over it if I can help it at all. If I think my life's in danger from a sniper that I believe is firing at me from a hotel, I don't care who else is in it, I'm shooting back. If you wouldn't do the same, you don't value your life very much.

[avx]

Jackjones are you a ballistics expert? Do you know what weapon the enemy was using?

This is your argument: Even if he was being fired upon, the gun couldnt have been that strong, so he had no right to shoot.

Im 6'2, 250lbs...if a 5'2 120lb guy comes up to me and hits me in the face...because he is smaller, and couldnt have hurt me that bad, if I hit him...I am the bad guy??

These reporters have chosen to plant themselves in the middle of a warzone...Sure its horrible that a reporter died and some others were injured...but I think the death toll for soldiers that come under unknown fire is climbing towards the high 50's. I dont understand why you think you can already say that the soldiers reason for firing is a "story", there is no proof that there wasnt a shooter, and there is no proof that there was...but already you say hes making up stories and hes lieing to save his butt...But let me ask you this then...if no one was firing on him...why did he shoot the building?

[jackjones]

Firstly, there was no fire coming from the building. You can not fire a rifle without anyone hearing it and no one fired an anti tank weapon without anyone hearing it. Secondly, No I would not shot at a building that I know is filled with innocent people to kill a sniper that can not hurt me when I’m inside my tank. I would have to be pretty unintelligent to intentionally do so.

[avx]

Assuming he knew that there was inncent people in that building...Soldiers dont care about the building, they want to kill the enemy. There you go again with the "you cant fire a rifle without anyone hearing it". Do you know what snipers are and what they do? They use high power rifles to kill enemys at VERY GREAT distances, and not to give their position away, they use silencers, and these rifles are no joke...they are HIGH POWERED and you CAN put a silencer on them. AND THERE ARE ANTI TANK RIFLES!!! They have specifilically designed bullets that pierce the armor and explode in the tanks hull...They are the equivalent of a bunker bomb, they drill in, and then explode...

And you didnt answer my question either...why would he fire? He just wanted to blow something up??? Please...

[jackjones]

"Jackjones are you a ballistics expert? Do you know what weapon the enemy was using?"

No, and neither do I need to be one to know that you do not use silenced rifles to engage targets with at long range. Furthermore, not being a ballistics expert does not mean that I don’t know that there currently are no silenced anti tank weapon ( and if one should exist the Iraqis surely do not have it). I can tell you from personal experience that these types of weapons make a fair amount of noise.

“This is your argument: Even if he was being fired upon, the gun couldnt have been that strong, so he had no right to shoot.
Im 6'2, 250lbs...if a 5'2 120lb guy comes up to me and hits me in the face...because he is smaller, and couldnt have hurt me that bad, if I hit him...I am the bad guy??”

Firstly, I would like to point out that I find your analogy very far fetched and lacking in logic. We are not talking about hitting someone we are discussion an action that killed people.

Secondly, no that’s not my argument but you surely do not engage a suspected enemy target if the target is not capable of hurting you and you in doing so run a very high risk of inflicting a lot of collateral damage( which is a nice marketing expression for killing innocent civilians). It’s the simple principle of applying due force. You wouldn’t carpet bomb the whole city of Baghdad just to kill Saddam Hussein would you? I think the tank commander made a mistake and targeted the wrong building and the general made an even greater mistake by telling the press that the tank was under fire for the hotel building.

“These reporters have chosen to plant themselves in the middle of a warzone...Sure its horrible that a reporter died and some others were injured...but I think the death toll for soldiers that come under unknown fire is climbing towards the high 50's. I dont understand why you think you can already say that the soldiers reason for firing is a "story", there is no proof that there wasnt a shooter, and there is no proof that there was...but already you say hes making up stories and hes lieing to save his butt...But let me ask you this then...if no one was firing on him...why did he shoot the building?”

Firstly, If one source who is involved in an incident tells a totally different story that a lot of sources who have nothing to gain by not telling the truth. What does that tell you?

[glc]

Good grief - it's a WAR, dammit - get OVER it!

You are whining about 3 reporters when there have been over 1000 "innocent" Iraqi civilians killed? What makes these reporters any different than those folks? How many reporters have been killed by Iraqi fire?

If I were living in a hotel in Baghdad right now, I'd make sure my life insurance policy was paid up.

[avx]

The soldier did as he was instructed to do. He could have seen 10 camera men up on the roof pointing their cameras at his tank, he mistook them for enemy soldiers shooting at the tank, he thought the building was over run by Republican Guards so he figures he will take it out...Because while that gun fire may not even pose a single threat too his tank, not all soldiers have the benefit of having 3ft of solid steel surrounding them while they go into battle...So, does he leave the building there because they really cant hurt him, or does he hit the building to destroy any other threat to ground forces. The answer is simple.

There is no point in arguing. The soldier was only doing his job, and from what I can tell so far, should not get into any trouble, cause apparently the military seems to agree that if the reports are dumb enough to be in the middle of a warzone carrying those big zoom in camers that, in the eyes of a soldier looks like a gun, and is held like a gun...They should take further precautions to avoid both Iraqi and American troops, soldiers know all to well that there is no time to investigate whether that is a camera or gun, or if it a soldier or a reporter...

I just dont think someone who is doing nothing to help in the war, can sit there and criticize a mistake made by someone who is putting his life on the line to defend his country and end the war. Just my opinion...Maybe if you didnt start off by labeling this soldier as a complete and total moron...