Countdown to oblivion!

[clydefo]

I saw Karen Hughes, Gov Bush’s spokeslady intoning to reporters today that based on an unofficial total +300 votes, compiled by the media (very reliable source, eh?) and with the official re-count still underway, that Gore should “do the right thing for the country” or some such rot. What a bunch of clowns. Photo ops in the mansion? Who was the nervous little guy tapping his foot?

Isn’t it interesting that as each county’s recount came in, Bush’s lead steadily dwindled? Could this be evidence of the skimming of Gore ballots by little brother Jeb’s organization during the original count? I guess with the lawyers watching they had to keep the recount reasonably honest! I’ll bet the manual recount in key counties puts Gore ahead. Don’t count on the overseas vote being overwhelmingly Bush. My guess is that the eager-beaver Republicans got their absentee ballots in early and have already been counted. The last-minute mailers are probably Democrats. My yard signs are still out.

[Kubie]

I'm not sure clyde, but I think you have a problem.

[bob]

The exit polls predicted Gore for Flordia before the corruption was discovered. Wonder if they will prove true in the end.

Edited "corruption" - not fraud, I mean the process was messed up.



[Edited by bob on 11-11-2000 at 12:09 AM]

[Gintaras]

Originally posted by Carlgif I'm not sure clyde, but I think you have a problem.

I'll second that....

[bob]

Gintaras, This country is equally divided on the issues except for the side that only can only produce insults.

[Gintaras]

Originally posted by bob Gintaras, This country is equally divided on the issues except for the side that only can only produce insults.

The side you're talking about- probably "those sick foreigners?"

[clydefo]

The biggest problem I have right now is a case of the hiccups from laughing so hard at that pompous crowd in Austin. Publicly posturing as the President Elect while sitting on a 300 vote lead out of 6 million total votes, while the counting is still going on!

[Kubie]

Bush shows leadership and preparation in preparing for the presidency. If he loses, nothing is lost.
If he wins, that should scare the hiccups away clyde.

[clydefo]

Carlgif,
A Bush win would scare them away for sure but I lost them just a few moments ago when startled to the point of disbelief upon hearing that Bush is taking it into the courts to try to stop the hand counting. If it gets tied up in court so that the Florida Electors never make it to the Electoral College, the College votes without Florida and Bush loses. Bush knows this, and he also knows what a PR nightmare it will create for him as he goes about trying to suppress an accurate count in a razor thin election. So this can only be desperation. No wonder that Austin bunch looks so grim. My guess is that Jeb has already told him roughly how many more Gore ballots will show up in the hand count. I'm going to predict 1000 or so. Add the overseas ballots that will split 52% for Gore and he will have a 1200 vote victory.

[troysvihl]

Bush is taking it into courts b/c a handcount is less accurate. Gore didn't win Fla, but he thinks that by demanding a handcount they might just come up with enough votes this time. Maybe we should just keep recounting until Gore wins?

[LawyerRon]

Right on Troy,
Every re-count produces a different result because now we are introducing "human error" into the process. Our law has never held that you can keep demanding count after count until you achieve the result you want. I want the system to run its course (within reason) and the person who won fair and square to be deemed the President. I can live with either party.

[clydefo]

Human error has been a part of the process from the beginning. Who designs and maintains those faulty machines?

No one is demanding endless counting. The first was triggered automatically by Florida law. Local officials then agreed that under law, the manual counts are warranted in a few problem counties to get an accurate count, a time-honored American electoral practice and tradition.

LawyerRon, what is your professional opinion as to the odds that Bush will persuade a Federal court to interfere in a state electoral process that is proceeding smoothly within the dictates of our federal system?

[bob]

Federal court will not touch this now. It is a state matter.

Bush by trying the federal court has shown his hand.

"You gotta know when to hold them - know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run"

[audiyoda]

Originally posted by clydefo Carlgif, If it gets tied up in court so that the Florida Electors never make it to the Electoral College, the College votes without Florida and Bush loses.

Incorrect!! In this event, the House of Representatives would choose the next president and vice president of the United States. Read your constitution...opps, you're a democrat so you probrably don't have one or you'd see just how anti-constitutional all this pandering by Gore really is.

-Craig

[LawyerRon]

clyde,
The legal question here is whether a Federal Court has "jurisdiction" in this case. Most people don't realize Federal Courts are courts of "limited jurisdiction". Here, you must invoke "Federal Question Jurisdiction" to get in the front door. "Federal Question Jurisdiction" basically involves "Constitutional issues". Here, you could make the argument that some sort of "due process" violation is going on. Actually I'm not sure what theory they'll use to get in to Federal Court, but it's very likely the court will look at the facts and say "we don't have jurisdiction, we can't hear this case", and that will be that.

Jurisdiction is a very complicated subject and Law Students spend whole year on the subject in Law School in a class called "Civil Procedure".

[clydefo]

After the initial vote, both sides knew that the automatic recount might flip the lead due to the fact that the vote total difference was within the margin of error for random mechanical variations. Gore's team apparently realized that hand counts might be needed and prepared for and requested them. Before the deadline had passed, why did the Bush team request recounts for only Seminole County? As he thinks about the situation, I suspect that Governor Bush is having feelings similar to those poor bastards on Texas death row who had bad lawyers.

[padawan]

Here is why Bush is pissed about this thing. The Dems are calling for handcounts in places where the people voted 9-1 for Gore. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that odds are more Gore votes will be found in these areas. If we are going to recount, then dammit recount the entire freaking country, not just where the Dems want.

The Dems run the Election board in Florida, and the lone Republican is out-voted 2-1 everytime. Do we want those two women deciding this election?

I can totally understand why the Bush camp is upset about this, and I feel that is Al Gore wants recounts, them it is also time to start looking into the way homeless people were driven to polls and bribed with cigarettes, why the polls were kept open late in St Louis. Then we are going to recount every stae that is close. Look at New Mexico, Gore won by 10,000, but after a recount, they had Bush up by 4. That's an even bigger difference than Florida, where Bush had only originally won by about 2,000. I think this is just the beginning. We are going to see fraud claims and recounts for the rest of the year, thanks to Al "Sore Loser" Gore. We haven't even seen the overseas votes yet. The Dems are claiming that they have a good standing with the military, and the media has interviewed servicemembers that say they voted for Gore. I'm here to tell you, I have been in the service for 10 years, and I only know 3 Dems out of about 500 people in my unit. Yeah, we love the Dems...low pay and 14 hour workdays.

[glc]

The dems sure do want these 2 women deciding the election. They are counting on it.

This election is out of the hands of the people. It's gonna be decided by whoever has the slickest lawyers and can strategically outmaneuver the other side. This is a CIVIL WAR without "physical" weapons.

The Bush camp right now has been caught with their pants down. Gore has taken a big advantage - they have learned well from Slick Willie, et al. I though politics played this style went away when Richard J. Daley died. Guess not - his son is Gore's campaign manager. Bill learned well from his daddy.

[LawyerRon]

g,
This is indeed a Civil War but with the "spin doctors" working overtime on both sides. Even the media is putting their "spin" on things. That's why I don't listen to the "spin". I try to judge what's going on, independent of the "spin". It aint easy.

[SARGE]

Bush can do nicely and survive without the Presidency; Gore cannot. Bush has a life outside of politics and was persuaded to run for Prez. I have pipe dreams of him saying, "what the Hell, take the job and shove it. It ain't worth it". Of course this would disappoint the millions who voted for him, but knowing him as I do, I just know he's itching to say the above. The whole thing has been a joke and he shouldn't want any part of it now. After this, the country deserves Gore. If his own state had voted for him, this wouldn't be going on. Geez, George, stay in Texas with us sensible folks and lets go fishing again in April.

[bob]

Bush seems like a cool dude. But the best team needs to win. Gore clearly has won the battle that proves which team is best.