Newcomer treatment

[hitchface]

I experienced this myself and also saw a couple of other new guys go through this...

Some of the people that have been here for a while aren't really being entirely inviting. I know it gets annoying when the same threads come up all the time and people ignore the stickies, but it doesn't call for what can be seen as abrupt and borderline disrespectful comments.

I know that it is entirely sufficient to say "This topic doesn't belong here. Go here. Thread closed." However, a more welcoming option might be "Well, to answer your question, (insert answer here), but from now on, post this kind of a question in this forum instead, or reference this sticky." The "Welcome to PC Mech" touch is a nice one, but backed by other comments like the former, it is rendered useless.

I think it might make a better return on membership if that simple step were taken, because otherwise people just get turned off. Nobody likes to talk to someone who doesn't give them any respect.

This isn't a widespread plague or anything, but I have seen it enough in my short life here to think poorly of it.

[Cricket]

I think some of the misunderstanding and treatment of newcomers would be greatly reduced if more newcomers would take the time to read the Forum Rules before they joined and started posting.

From what I've seen over the many years I've been here is most of the old timers are more than happy to help anyone with their problems and have a lot of patience even with the most inexperienced newbies. But I've also seen many newcomers come and show a real lack of respect to the forum members here right from the get-go. Some were very un-civil (using lots of foul language) and some were very demanding ("Hey, is anybody here gonna help me with my problem or what?!?) and some would actually attack other members for posting what they felt was an incorrect answer or an answer they didn't want to hear (even if it was the correct answer).

I believe this forum is actually one of the most newcomer friendly forums on the net. I've been to others that are absolutely brutal to newbies.

Cricket

[hitchface]

Cricket,

I agree, I see lots of nice posts all over the place, but it seems that there is absolutely zero tolerance for anyone to mess up. Even for someone who has read the rules (admittedly I didn't, but I am a part of other forums as well, and they are all relatively the same), it's not easy to just remember them when you have some "life or death" computer issue.

I am not asking for a loosening of the rules, but if someone breaks them, smile and direct them to the the right place or the right attitude. I know what it is like to have completely disrespectful people bashing someone left, right and center, but if it is met by the same attitude, it solves nothing.

Beyond that, I have only really noticed this kind of thing happening to new folk who just want a question answered. Yes, it sucks when someone is too lazy to look up the info, especially when your job (or extreme hobby in some cases) requires that you look it up yourself. Yes it sucks when you have someone that badmouths you when you really didn't deserve it, but a simple, nice explanation of how things are goes a long way to making sure that the new member contributes to the forum. This is, after all, a community and a community can't risk the appearance of unkindness, lest it lose its title.

I just think that it isn't wise to be disrespectful on either end. If someone broke the rules, help them to understand those rules in a respectful way, and they will be glad for it.

Oh, and thank you. I appreciate your concern very much.

[Panama Red]

I guess I'm confused, hf. Moderator posts to identify necessary moves/redirects are used for information purposes. They let all members, whether new or long standing, know why their thread or post was moved or removed. Those mod comments are not intended as chastisement unless the poster has also violated our Forum Rules. In that case, we will immediately step in to maintain order and decorum.

I did a search for the phrases you've quoted and I'm unable to find them. Could you please post a link to the threads/posts in question?

Keep in mind, we also have rules regarding arguing in public with moderator decisions. Disagreement with a mod or admin decision is to be discussed in private (PM), not in the open forums. If the remarks you refer to are from members other than Froum Staff, I suggest you use the Report Post link at the bottom of the post. That will allow us to properly review and address the issue.

[hitchface]

Did I break a rule somewhere regarding moderator decisions? If this thread is considered like that, lets move it to PM.

[Panama Red]

No you didn't. I'm just making sure you understand the way we do things here - and why - and how you can report violations. If you feel you've been done wrong, you need to talk to the right people.

[hitchface]

Understood. Feel free to close or delete this then. I don't want to make it any more public.

Thanks for the help!

[thefultonhow]

As Cricket said, people on this forum are much more newcomer-friendly than on other forums. Yes, on occasion a mod or member may be somewhat blunt, but on many other forums you will get outright flamed if you ask a newbie-type question. Many times the only response you will get to a commonly-asked question is "SEARCH!" -- we don't do things that way here and try to help people out no matter how basic the question is.

We are actually very tolerant of "mess ups," as you put it. But we aren't always going to be completely sunshiney. Remember that everyone has their good and bad days.

---------

There are relatively few times that we will lock a thread, but it does happen for the following reasons:

- It is a duplicate or continuation of a previous thread, in which case we direct people to the original thread.
- A moderator believes that there is a rules violation. Sometimes it's pretty clear-cut, but other times there is a misunderstanding. Moderators are human too, and if you disagree with one of our decisions, you are welcome to PM us (but in a civil manner, of course).

[glc]

The rules in other forums may be relatively the same, but the difference is here we enforce them strictly instead of looking the other way. This will cause occasional hurt feelings which we can't really do much about.

[hitchface]

I am in full support of rule enforcement, don't get me wrong. They exist for a reason, so by all means, enforce away! There is a difference between discipline and punishment, however.

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by hitchface There is a difference between discipline and punishment, however.

Alas, when the means of communication is thru the written word, it is often difficult to discern the difference. Just like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder (reader in this case) and often time subject to misinterpretation.

[thefultonhow]

The only punishment is when somebody REALLY screws up -- at which point they get to join the Brotherhood of the Banned. Usually that is after multiple warnings for rules violations (duplicate posting and posting in the wrong forum doesn't really count), and unless the user is clearly one that signed up to spam, a moderator vote is required.

Otherwise, I don't think any of what we do can be considered "punishment." We never make you go sit in the corner -- we just tell you not to do that again.

[hitchface]

Alrighty, I'm seeing it in a tad of a different light. Thanks for the extra clarification guys.

[RevCLB]

I see these forums as very polite & tolerant. Having made several "dumb" posts I have always received a tolerant answer. Sometimes it has been a link to another source with little comment. But why write a book to explain a book if the original has the answers? Sometimes the answers have been short but informative & polite.
These folks get many requests every day & it seems impossible to give a lot of details each time. They do a great job. RevCLB

[786ARS]

I agree with RevCLB, as i have found these forums much more welcoming to newcomers than other forums have frequented in the past. What I think everyone hers gets and that other people on different forums have to remember that everyone was a newbie to computers at one point in their lives.

[glc]

I sometimes forget that - because I've been doing this stuff too long now. I have to keep reminding myself that a LOT of our members have no concept of DOS, AT form factor, etc. - all they know is XP and haven't a clue what things look like under the hood.

[RevCLB]

Originally Posted by glc I sometimes forget that - because I've been doing this stuff too long now. I have to keep reminding myself that a LOT of our members have no concept of DOS, AT form factor, etc. - all they know is XP and haven't a clue what things look like under the hood.

Exactly!! Got my first computer in February 2004 with a recomendation from a friend to viisit PC Mechanic. It came with XP & I struggled with using it. I still struggle with using it because I am not a tech type person. Visited forums (lurked) for quite some time & then joined & asked some questions & got polite answers.

Even though many people on these forums have vast knowledge of computers they still take the time to offer answers. How does a nuclear physicist talk to a kindergartner? My thanks goes to those who know who help us who don't know. (Or even those who think they know)! RevCLB

[faulkner132]

Lets also remember these are volunteer forums and not tech support.
I think some people get frustrated when their questions are not answered immediately or require them to do research on their own. From what I have found, this is the best forum on the web for what it does.

[RevCLB]

Originally Posted by faulkner132 Lets also remember these are volunteer forums and not tech support. I think some people get frustrated when their questions are not answered immediately or require them to do research on their own. From what I have found, this is the best forum on the web for what it does.

Yes, It is from the advice I get from these forums that I learn how to do research. As stated before, I am not a tech type person. The answers & links I get help me to S-L-O-W-L-Y expand my computer knowledge. I are a inglish majur not a tekneeshun!! RevCLB

[tetsuo]

What I have seen several times: Your post doesn't belong here. It's been moved to the correct place (the link here).

Or: Don't cuss.

These are just facts, I don't see anything rude about it.

There have been a couple of times I have forgotten to read a sticky or whatever. Don't know that I was chastised about it.

I think the forum is excellent in it's handling of newcomers (I still consider myself one). I've been to other forums - and been kicked out for behaviours no different than I behave here. Especially once when I posted info regarding bypassing security when has physical access to the machine.

Occasionally I have seen a mod (no names) seem a bit short, but that was just when all that was given was the solution. What more should someone want? And more importantly, they did give answers. There have been a few times I was just too in disbelief at someone's lack of knowledge/sense to help them. And the mods here know far far more than I. I'm amazed at their patience.

I think that if someone can't follow the rules they should go where there aren't any.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by faulkner132 Lets also remember these are volunteer forums and not tech support.

Exactly. I think some people expect us to fix their computers and then get miffed when the problem isn't resolved immediately. But how are you supposed to help someone who just says "My computer doesn't work...what could be wrong?" and doesn't offer any other information (like what the computer is doing or not doing) and doesn't tell us if it's a home built or name brand computer or the system specs or what they did to try and fix it. It's like telling a auto mechanic "My car doesn't work, what's wrong?" but not telling him the make and model of the car and the exact symptoms. How do you think the mechanic would respond? And I don't know about the rest of the members here but I don't have ESP.

And I think some of them forget that we're only offering suggestions that may or may not fix the problem...they're the ones who have the computer in front of them and who have to do the actual work to fix the problem. I don't know about the rest of the members but I can't astral project.

Cricket

[Strider]

I'll add my .02 cents to the discussion, I think PCMech treats newcomers very nice compared to other forums that I won't mention here. While there's always room for improvement and I think this thread points out some improvements that can be made, I just think it's better to be truthful about the rules than to sugarcoat them until the person understands. For I think it's better to get the message about proper posting than to lead them on, for they might never figure out what is the right thing to do and plus you're supposed to read the forum rules when you sign up here. I took a couple of college courses last semester where fellow students critiqued my work, at first I didn't like it because I took it personal but in the long run it help me become better in the class. Same goes for PCMech forums, it'll make a person a better poster if the things are pointed out to them from the get go. There are diffidently other forums on the net that don't treat newcomers with respect and are rather rude in my opinion to them, but I find PCMech rather friendly to all newcomers. I come here regularly to find out the latest in technology (meaning latest in PC Components) and to get steered in the right direction if I have a computer problem, I don't expect (although many times it ends up that I do) the problem to be solved without doing some leg work on my own.

[hitchface]

Originally Posted by Cricket Exactly. I think some people expect us to fix their computers and then get miffed when the problem isn't resolved immediately. But how are you supposed to help someone who just says "My computer doesn't work...what could be wrong?" and doesn't offer any other information (like what the computer is doing or not doing) and doesn't tell us if it's a home built or name brand computer or the system specs or what they did to try and fix it. It's like telling a auto mechanic "My car doesn't work, what's wrong?" but not telling him the make and model of the car and the exact symptoms. How do you think the mechanic would respond? And I don't know about the rest of the members here but I don't have ESP. And I think some of them forget that we're only offering suggestions that may or may not fix the problem...they're the ones who have the computer in front of them and who have to do the actual work to fix the problem. I don't know about the rest of the members but I can't astral project. Cricket

I'm not sure if I know anyone who can...though I suppose tech support for some companies could really benefit...especially if the guy is really smart.

On the topic though, I see a lot of people saying the opposite (or at least a different point of view) from what my original post was. I guess I was having a bad week, or something. I guess I was having the feeling that the "please and thank you" aspect was missing. Other forums are bad about newcomer treatment, but we should remember that it pays to not only do better, but do the best possible.

[glc]

If someone posts with the "please and thank you" method, I can almost guarantee that they will be treated well. If someone posts in an arrogant manner, the opposite will probably be true. If you are having a bad day and make a nasty post, don't come crying to me about a nasty response you get. Just sit back and get over it - get a fresh start on a better day.

[telegramsam]

I don't know if this matters much...
I'm a relative newcomer here. When I was brand new, I asked some extremely basic questions. But I asked in a polite manner and was sure to post a thank you (still do) following getting help/answers.

I think that some people might forget that most of the people here donate their time to helping others build themselves or fix problems--which saves us the time and expense of repairs or new computers for problems that can be solved with configurations, new components, etc.

We also NEED to learn how help ourselves. I appreciate being told how to solve the problem on my own. "google this" is absolutely fine. Sometimes an attitude can be read into what is being advised, but it's on the OPer to take a breath and realize that the fact that these people are here helping is something you won't get at any repair store or dell.com.

I've was scolded once--I didn't take it personally--just made a note to not do what I was told not to do.

So thank you all very much for all of your help. Because of your help and reading the help you've given others, I've become a pretty proficient PC tech. Still a novice, but on my way.

[glc]

We also NEED to learn how help ourselves. I appreciate being told how to solve the problem on my own. "google this" is absolutely fine. Sometimes an attitude can be read into what is being advised, but it's on the OPer to take a breath and realize that the fact that these people are here helping is something you won't get at any repair store or dell.com.

Sam, you hit the nail on the head there. I'm a teacher. I don't give away the answers. That's not how you learn. If you post with a problem and I give a cryptic answer (which most of mine are) it's up to you to analyse what I said and go from there. Google can be your best friend. The less time I spend writing excruciating details, the more people I can help. Do your research and then if needed ask for clarification based on what you can find. If I answer a question with a link, I expect you to click on the link and read the page.

You will also find that the more time you spend on writing a well thought out post, the more time I'll spend discussing the issue with you. General questions get a general answer.

[The_YongGrand]

This is the best tech forum I've ever bumped into. The tech gurus are very experienced and offer help in a VERY professional way. I always visit this site, and I often enjoy learning at this place! The PcMech is very friendly towards the newcomers too, and people will just offer advice and help to each other.

[newbuilder14]

I think I forget how I even found this forum, probably searching Google one day, but I am so glad I did find it, and I think the people here are very friendly and helpful. I have never found any newcomers mistreated - but even if they were (not that it is good, but let's be realistic) this is a free community.

[bd1886]

One thing I have noticed is real quick basic info replies w/links or just links as a reply. This is mostly when the board is really rockin' w/lots of active threads. Civility is pretty much the rule here.

[eshort]

My $.02----

ive been posting to this board for several years and have learned much from it. I find if questions r posed in a very specific/detailed manner---answers are forthcoming in a complete, friendly fashion ..i now use the following format to ask a question:

Issue:......description of the problem..specifics-- re-use adverb type problem descriptions..ie-s-- (when-where-or how long etc..has problem occurred etc)--what is not happening that is supposed to happen etc--what u want to accomplish if problem is rectified..

computer: descrip of the comput: cpu/mothboard/type-amount ram/size of hdd etc--and any other details that i feel might help isolate/identify the problem. I may also ask for a link(s) if i suspect the answer may require alot of detail.

i try to always say "tx" after posing the question!

Other boards vary alot in their treatment..some posters seem to pride themselves in having "attitude" (and even include this word "atitude" in their name/handle)--i have NOT seen this here!!!